The Shuttle Discussion Forum!

[SDIR]

One way to control your shuttle wile keeping it stock is to have small radial rockomax 24-77s attached to be perpendicular to your flight path,so that they can compensate for the torque that is produced when fuel is drained from the main tank.

[Kosmo-not]

I am completing work on mine (stock parts, of course). I just need to add some final aesthetic touches.

Here's a couple pictures as a sneak peek: http://imgur.com/rreG8zT,RfGLMyw#0

Watch for "Deimos III" in the spacecraft exchange soon.

[Kerbal01]

Heres my Shuttle, The Model was rocket2guns CSS Version 2.0, after tinkering with its aerodynamics, Viola!

No deadly spin, engines gimbal to 10.5, and at about 23000 you dump the SRBS, the flip of death goes away.

Once in orbit, you dump the fueltank, switch to Orbital Manuvering Systems, and your fine.

although im not a pilot and havent landed it yet,

Only mod used is mechjeb 2, weight of vehicle I'm not sure of, yes it can get to orbit, nothing above 300k easily. Landing it? Never have.

Oh and I forgot, you have to execute a roll over, putting the ext tank on top, it's weight can cause issues, but as you get going, it gets lighter. And you can roll back over.

Looks good except for the body/cabin shading light effects. Release soon?

[marach]

Out of interest have any of the Shuttle mods tried adding gimbals to the SRB's like in the real world?

[ThePyrateCaptain]

Out of interest have any of the Shuttle mods tried adding gimbals to the SRB's like in the real world?

Using bozzsquirrels Srbs, they have gimbaling to .75, efficient enough.

[Kosmo-not]

Mine is now complete. You can download it here.

[SkipSpikowski]

I have never been able to get SRB's to work, so I went with a more Soviet design.

http://imgur.com/a/7RHwi

[WooDzor]

I just gave up the other day :$ Strutted my shuttle on top of my massive rocket and fly it around in LKO with RCS. I've spend days trying to make a working stock shuttle that looks and performs like the real one. At least it looks like a real shuttle 8-)

W

[Phenom Anon X]

I had a big long post that got deleted because I got logged out. I'm tired of forum Nazi's. No really. I'm sick of it.

Here's my clipboard, I'm tired and sick to death of losing edits because of getting logged out and not getting proper redirects to my posts. /rant

==================

I skipped over a large portion of replies, but I've subscribed to the thread for later reading. I don't even know where to start with my reply to OP.

According to my logs, I've spent the better part of 300 hours in game desiging a proper space shuttle with stock parts only. It's not easy. Period. I had to think outside the box on two different fronts. The main issue, as OP posted, is balance. The challenge to myself was to never use a mod until I get a stock shuttle running. .... I really should be blogging this... anyway, I'll briefly summerise.

First was the basic lander, no lifter, no engines, no tanks, no rcs, nothing. Just a plain old plain, with no engines that would glide and land. That in itself took ages. But how do you test it without engines? Well, on phase 2 I added jet engines and launched it horizontally and flew it. Just to get a feel for it's flight characteristics. Landing was a matter of cutting the engines and coasting, not facing the runway and treating it like a glider. Turning the thing was a bitch, but I figured it out and eventually got it to land 90% of the time. No mods, all manual control. Ok done.

Next came the external tanks and engines. That's what took me over 300 hours of game time to figure out and still need to tweak. We're talking 4 weeks straight, every hour I could spare. I got pictures on my Imgur account of these two phases I think. What I ended up with was logistically intensive and just flat out hard. For the External Tank, I added a 1/4 tank on top. This tanks fuel flow would be disabled on launch. What this does is keep some weight far from the CoM to maintain the off balance. Yes, I wanted the off balance to stay constant for as long as possible. The trick is watchin fuel flow during flight to re-enable fuel flow before flame out.

I don't even want to discuss engines. What a nightmare. The angles and placement of each have to to be more precise than the game allows, but it's doable. In general, I had to add them to the end of and I-Beam, connect the I-beams (with clipping ON - no cheats) internally so that I could pitch the engines in 5, 10, 15 or 20 degrees increments (yes there's a mod for that, but I refused). The best I ever did was get to 165km suborbital. The engine pitch is incredibly important to counter balance. Your flight pitch will almost always be 10 degrees off your thrust vector and you get used to it. I keep messing up the flight path and haven't quite figured out when to disengage the main engines through action groups to conserve Dv.

Anyway, to keep it short, I stupidly saved over a WORKING engine configuration before a launch and lost all my efforts. I spent 4 weeks of work, got to 95% of the way to a full orbit and messed it up. If I could get to 165km suborbital, I can damn well get to 80km with enough Dv left for orbital engines to circularise. I've wasted all that time refusing to install B9 and other mods and I just gave up. I want to enjoy the game, so I shelved my plans on a Stock Nasa Shuttle, for now and install a ton of mods with the same goal in mind.

I consider what I achieved a success, in that I was able to get suborbital, reentry and land, every time. 100% perfect. I was just missing some manual maneuvers to make it to orbit. What I realised, is that's all I can do with stock is make it to orbit, reentry and land. I have no bays, no payload, no missions what so ever. It's impossible with the current version of the game to do anything with a stock shuttle beyond that. So I've chalked that up to be akin to the Enterprise tests. Yes, I even replicated weight tests without engines to land my Orbiter. I would like to to simulate getting my orbiter up on the back of a plane, but that will definitely take a mod.

I've now installed B9 (Finally!) and have begun simulating the entire NASA program, starting with Mercury. Mercury in game is nowhere near as exciting as the real thing and barely worthy of a sidenote but Ive done it, I even made a flag for it, even though I technically have no where to plant it, since Mercury was just a proof of concept to get man in space to see if it was even possible. I've made flags for several Apollo missions that I have planed and have lots of mods ready to start for screenshots, blogging, Twitch and even Youtube.

I haven't even started playing this game yet.

*Editors note:

I previously had mentions of future NASA missions, Apollo Flags and missions, STS Flags and missions, the orion project and more. I'm sorry if this post is long, full of errors and has no links for context. I have a ton of images on Imgur, some very mild footage on Twitch and the start of a blog here on the forums specifically related to this topic and a ton more on hand that's not posted yet.

I apologize for the rant at the start, I just want forum moderators to see it and reconsider some of their practices and that's not a topic ITT.

Anyway, i've subbed to this thread and will re-read every word multiple times over the coming weeks. This thread is exactly what these forums needed; a focus on the Shuttle.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Phenom Anon X
grrrrrrrrr

[iDan122]

Yeah I don't know what to do either. I have been trying to build a space shuttle in KSP but even when I make sure the center of thrust is going directly through the center of mass, it doesn't seem to work.

You forgot that the fuel is drained and the. Enter of mass will shift so fu.

[Stelith61]

I built a stock Buran-style shuttle once. Never again. It was horribad looking. Fuel tank counterweights... eugh.

[SkyHook]

May I present to you..the Eurobird! It's my first successful shuttle. Here's a quick list of behavior:

Pros:

-Quick climb to orbit.

-Light, agile design both in atmosphere and in orbit.

-Reentry can be done with no reentry effects.

-Extreme lift at mach speeds

-Excellent low-speed performance.

Cons:

-Cargobay and FAR caused me to have to change the wing shape, altering performance.

-Does a backflip upon gravity turn, otherwise stable.

-Orbin won't stop frowning!

Here's the album of pictures:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Edited July 19, 2013 by SkyHook

[p331083]

100% stock with working bay doors;

idea of payload capacity;

Edited July 19, 2013 by p331083

[maro]

Here some pictures of my own - stock parts only - shuttle tests

Solved the folowing problems

- Orbiting

- Orbiting with 3000kg paylaod

- Orbiting with payload + enough RCS fuel to manipulate Orbit up and down between 70/200km

Problem Nr.1) Existing SRBs in KSP are to weak (can be solved with using liquid boosters & Mainsail)

Problem Nr.2) Existing SRBs in KSP has no TVC capability (solved with RCS) [Original Space Shuttle Solid Rocket Boosters have TVC !]

Problem Nr.3) Existing Main engines (i used 3 x LV-T45) have to less TVC capability (sloved with much more RCS) [LV-T45 have 1° while Space Shutlle Main engines have TVC "around two axes of freedom with a range of ±10.5°"]

Problem Nr.4) Gliding performance below 2.500m is to weak, the shuttle gets to slow and cant reduce ist descent rate apropriate. (wasnt able to solve this)

Edited July 19, 2013 by maro

[p331083]

You should 24-77s to counter the drift instead of tons of rcs + thrusters(Its what I use for my shuttle rocket). Much simpler and reduces part count a ton.

[Kerbface]

100% stock with working bay doors;

idea of payload capacity;

How can that possibly be stock? There are no stock hinges and I don't see how you can get those brown bits in stock.

[SkyHook]

.

This reply is VERY late, but have you made any progress? Has this thread helped you at all? I would live to see any craft that you have made in the meantime. I created this thread with people like you in mind, so that the entire community might grow in their knowledge of shuttles. Hope to hear from you soon.

100% stock with working bay doors;

I truly commend anyone who takes it upon themselves to build a shuttle in stock. That's a whole new level of skill to speak of! Great shuttle.

[p331083]

How can that possibly be stock? There are no stock hinges and I don't see how you can get those brown bits in stock.

Cant say the door design is my own(though I refined it a little);

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/39481-new-motorized-hinge-system-now-with-a-cargo-spaceship-and-a-MK3-cargo-bay

Put about 20 hours into it so far or so and just about done. Just need to work on rocket to launch for it before I post the .craft.

Edited July 19, 2013 by p331083

[maro]

You should 24-77s to counter the drift instead of tons of rcs + thrusters(Its what I use for my shuttle rocket). Much simpler and reduces part count a ton.

Have seen this layout.

But i tried to make a shuttle able to be flown with ASAS - it will probably work better when 0.21 solves the ASAS probelms, because now about 50% uf RCS fuel goes in the wrong direction.

The best way to do ist would be new stockparts - big SRBs with TVC and "SSMEs" with 10times the TVC then the 45....togehter with the new ASAS this should produce a good system.

Has anybody solved the glider landing?

[p331083]

Have seen this layout.

But i tried to make a shuttle able to be flown with ASAS - it will probably work better when 0.21 solves the ASAS probelms, because now about 50% uf RCS fuel goes in the wrong direction.

The best way to do ist would be new stockparts - big SRBs with TVC and "SSMEs" with 10times the TVC then the 45....togehter with the new ASAS this should produce a good system.

Has anybody solved the glider landing?

Dont think its possible to build a shuttle style craft that carries a payload and is capable of gliding to a landing with our engines/physics. I tried using my design(even had it so i jettisoned the spent fuel tanks) and it still couldnt do it.

[0x0h]

Glide landing with a light (or jettisoned) payload is possible, but you have to abuse the flight physics a bit to make it happen by adding more wings for lift and carefully balancing the COM and COL. Having the ability to dump excess stored fuel or ensuring that your de-orbit burn empties the tank is also super helpful, since once you're coming in that fuel is not only dead weight but also affecting the COM of orbiter. Just like the real shuttle, if your balance is off by more then a little bit everything is going to end badly.

Anyway, money where mouth is. This is my shuttle, shown carrying a Minimus-bound Remote-Sat to orbit:

Not stock, but pretty close. Uses the old Echo8 cargo bay that was patched to the new standard, a modified Mk 3->Mk 2 Adapter that holds liquid fuel and a fuel/RCS-dump toggle, and a Probe-body at the head that's been changed to hold 3 additional crew. She'll also take anywhere between 1.5-4.0 tons to LEO and is capable of bringing about 1 ton back if necessary. Glide only landing once deorbited, and capable of coming down from an inclined orbit. I spent way to much time on this, but it works surprisingly well considering how much of a pain shuttles are in KSP.

[SkyHook]

Have seen this layout.

But i tried to make a shuttle able to be flown with ASAS - it will probably work better when 0.21 solves the ASAS probelms, because now about 50% uf RCS fuel goes in the wrong direction.

The best way to do ist would be new stockparts - big SRBs with TVC and "SSMEs" with 10times the TVC then the 45....togehter with the new ASAS this should produce a good system.

Has anybody solved the glider landing?

Dont think its possible to build a shuttle style craft that carries a payload and is capable of gliding to a landing with our engines/physics. I tried using my design(even had it so i jettisoned the spent fuel tanks) and it still couldnt do it.

Well to you both, the Eurobird shuttle that I posted earlier in the forum is able to carry a payload, reenter successfully, and glide like a dream.....with FAR. I am not sure if you are opposed to using mods or not, but the aerodynamics in FAR allow for smoother (but less forgiving) flight characteristics.

[p331083]

Not stock =p.

[Captain Sierra]

The only shuttle I have is this:The Orion SSTO Crew Shuttle:

Made entirely with B9. Not perfect but it can get to orbit with a decent ammount of fuel so it can theoretically rendezvous (didn't have a space station up when I tested it XP) and iit has a bit under 500 units of RCS and well placed thruster blocks. It's a bit sluggish but if you can't dock with that much fuel, wow. If you can fly an SSTO, you should be able to dock (assuming that you aren't a natural SSTO builder and your first one worked out the gate, SSTO flying is harder than docking).

A quick orbital refuel later (courtesy of HyperEdit at the time) and it can go to a station at the Mun. I don't remember if it had the fuel to get back or if it needs refueling there too.

[stupid_chris]

Sniff, smells like... a dead thread. For nearly two months now. Don't necro this way seriously, clutters much.

That said, thread locked.