[0.23.5] Hollow Structures & Hulls (Updated: 2014-04-09)

[cttw]

Much love for this mod <3

[AntiMatter001]

In the 'Ultralight Series' download? I didn't realize I'd messed that up. I'll add that to my list of things to do. I'm also going to switch everything off of the Vanguard plugin in that download as well. Warning the custom rooms download may also not access the correct module, I'm also swapping things over there.

WOOT! debugger for life!

yeah i just renamed the .cfg (and the names from "Door" to "Door0") and the .mu (same again, "Door" to "Door0") and i got both doors in game... i don't think anything else is left out.

also great work but the only thing lagging my game (in VAB/sph and launchpad/runway) is the animated parts... but once i animate them once in the vab they don't lag anymore... (maybe i'm getting the right click menu to toggle the cragobay and etc from tweakable everything if you guys don't get it in the VAb/SPH)

[ahappydude]

I'm not clear that a part, even in a 'Landed' state and applying force to a kerbal will allow for that. I've seen centrifugal force used to make a rover drive around a ring, but the game seems to handle wheels very differently. Also I think it will be pretty important to make the gravity fields apply force only in one direction and only on one side of the part. Another option is to see about applying force only to kerbals, so perhaps a 'magnetized floors' kind of effect.

You know what, that sounds near like another thing holligan did , he called it squid, you can use that module and add it to lets say, a hat, or belt, ad it would go with kas on the kerbal and used like ai gravity in space

[Alskari]

also great work but the only thing lagging my game (in VAB/sph and launchpad/runway) is the animated parts... but once i animate them once in the vab they don't lag anymore... (maybe i'm getting the right click menu to toggle the cragobay and etc from tweakable everything if you guys don't get it in the VAb/SPH)

Thanks! The right click menu is appearing due to the AdvancedAnimator module. I haven't experienced the lag you're describing. I honestly haven't been playing much as I'm spending most of my time fleshing out this mod. Message me if it persists... although my first suggestion would be to see if it goes away when you remove other mods.

You know what, that sounds near like another thing holligan did , he called it squid, you can use that module and add it to lets say, a hat, or belt, ad it would go with kas on the kerbal and used like ai gravity in space

Excellent point. Over lunch I actually slapped together a combination of the SeaSickness code and the ARGravitatingPart for testing once I'm home. I should also look at SQUID. Maybe 'MagBoots' would be the easiest solution, or at least a good stopgap. Restricting the 'artificial gravity' to a single direction may prove to be more than my brain can handle. (EDIT: So looking at the SQUID code supplies me with everything I think I need to do the single direction floors I was originally thinking about. Woot.)

Appreciating the feedback guys.

Has anyone used the 'Custom Rooms' pack to make new textures or models? I've been too preoccupied with C# to write the how-to post.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Alskari

[not-a-cylon]

Thanks! The right click menu is appearing due to the AdvancedAnimator module. I haven't experienced the lag you're describing. I honestly haven't been playing much as I'm spending most of my time fleshing out this mod. Message me if it persists... although my first suggestion would be to see if it goes away when you remove other mods.

Excellent point. Over lunch I actually slapped together a combination of the SeaSickness code and the ARGravitatingPart for testing once I'm home. I should also look at SQUID. Maybe 'MagBoots' would be the easiest solution, or at least a good stopgap. Restricting the 'artificial gravity' to a single direction may prove to be more than my brain can handle. (EDIT: So looking at the SQUID code supplies me with everything I think I need to do the single direction floors I was originally thinking about. Woot.)

Appreciating the feedback guys.

Is anyone used the 'Custom Rooms' pack to make new textures or models? I've been too preoccupied with C# to write the how-to post.

For pretty selfish personal gameplay style reasons, I like the concept of magboots infinitely more than putting squid functionality to the floors. My 500+ part (pre-weld) ships would be rendered useless, as far as I know based on the experiences I've had welding, if every structural part had a module attached to it. Thanks for the new parts- now I can make different looking bridges! After spending so much time with this mod, I feel like I can finally show you something that doesn't suck with my latest iterations of my crafts. Keep an eye out for screenshots soon!

[Phocks]

I'm not clear that a part, even in a 'Landed' state and applying force to a kerbal will allow for that. I've seen centrifugal force used to make a rover drive around a ring, but the game seems to handle wheels very differently. Also I think it will be pretty important to make the gravity fields apply force only in one direction and only on one side of the part. Another option is to see about applying force only to kerbals, so perhaps a 'magnetized floors' kind of effect.

Pretty sure if you 'give' a part gravity, it applies in all directions, gravitating towards the centre of the part (saw the idea here http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/33713-Asteroids-2-4-(2-1-14))

MODULE

{

name = ARGravitatingPart

radius = 20

geesAtRadius = 0.01

deployedMass = 5000

gravitateWhileCommandable = true

gForceMulti = 0.775

atmDragMulti = 0.3 //25

}

You could make artificial gravity floors by adding gravity to structural panels; but I could foresee some fairly horrendous kraken issues.

[ahappydude]

I think a belt would be better, or maybe we can use kerbalquest grab and attach module and making shoel and shoer parts.

You should take a modding break so you can enjoy your parts and enjoying playing and not just modding hehe. Cool to hear about your thoughts and plans to.

Pretty sure if you 'give' a part gravity, it applies in all directions, gravitating towards the centre of the part (saw the idea here http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/33713-Asteroids-2-4-(2-1-14))

You could make artificial gravity floors by adding gravity to structural panels; but I could foresee some fairly horrendous kraken issues.

Hmm interesting, have you tried applying it?

Sounds exiting ,will lookforward to how it went

Edited April 4, 2014 by ahappydude

[Alskari]

I could foresee some fairly horrendous kraken issues.

Exactly why I'm not sure if I can do it. I've made some enormous parts before and used the AR grav code before, I'm revisiting it now that I understand C# a bit better.

I think a belt would be better, or maybe we can use kerbalquest grab and attach module and making shoel and shoer parts.

You should take a modding break so you can enjoy your parts and enjoying playing and not just modding hehe. Cool to hear about your thoughts and plans to.

I need to look into how KAS would handle that kind of behavior. I honestly have never messed around with that at all. And I would stop to play more, but I keep having ideas for new parts and I get sucked in lol.

[ahappydude]

The elevator can be used like an escape hatch, pretty usefull (Y) Hmm okey dont work yourself tired tough! hehe

Its fun to mod but you need to enjoy the playtime aswell, and yes i have taken a quick glance at your starter rooms

I have some ideas, i think they are possible with the new animationsystem your using.

I think kas works "relative" easy, i made alot of minor mods using their system, the question is if they will tumble around but duke (who made seasickness) made an nuddger so maybe that also can be used.

Ps if you want to try a quick and dirty thing, add the kas module to the squid structure panel or the small landinglegs and then inlaunch attach and test

Tried to "give" some panels gravity using the astroid plugin and it didnt work but it was worth a try

Cheers for the reply !

Edited April 4, 2014 by ahappydude

[Alskari]

The elevator can be used like an escape hatch, pretty usefull (Y) Hmm okey dont work yourself tired tough! hehe

Its fun to mod but you need to enjoy the playtime aswell, and yes i have taken a quick glance at your starter rooms

I have some ideas, i think they are possible with the new animationsystem your using.

I think kas works "relative" easy, i made alot of minor mods using their system, the question is if they will tumble around but duke (who made seasickness) made an nuddger so maybe that also can be used.

Ps if you want to try a quick and dirty thing, add the kas module to the squid structure panel or the small landinglegs and then inlaunch attach and test

Tried to "give" some panels gravity using the astroid plugin and it didnt work but it was worth a try

Cheers for the reply !

Just shot a space station core up into LKO which was nice. I think I'm 95% of the way on SeaSickness, but I still have one frustrating bug. Haven't messed around with SQUID a bunch and my attempt at a single direction gravitating part caused a crash to desktop and kerbals getting sent into orbit.

One thing I haven't really made clear on the custom rooms dl is that I've included Gimp files for the poster space on the back wall, bedding and picture frame, so all you need to do is download gimp, mess around a bit and then you can output a .tga to modify your own room. Blender and Unity is optional. I thought having a picture of your favorite creation in their rooms might appeal to you ahappydude.

[ahappydude]

Oh niffty man!

I didnt mean to stress you out about those but i also get exited by modding hah =) Yes this mod has much stuff that appeal to me,, mostly beacuse i never found any station/structures mod that i like and can expand with, cheers again and tack(thank you in swedish)

[ahappydude]

Edited April 7, 2014 by ahappydude

[Dr. Death]

what can i say... i love this mode, my kerbal glitches and get stuck because sometimes the ship is too small, but i love it.

However, when all its said and done, when you have a nice star-citizen-like ship, nothing else can be done. No landing strut/wheel looks good with it, so you can just leave it as it is, wich works, but the real problem is the engines. No engine looks good with this ship, and even the smaller engines dont fit/dont look right.

This is a problem because the aspect of the ship makes it looks like if it comes from an era where there are small engines with the power of the mainsail that require no fuel/a type of fuel that can be harvested like the solar one.

Besides that, i am using the small command pod, and damn, dude, JUST 50 electricity units? i think you should have them to at least 500, i am making these suggestions based on the fact that this mod is to bring futuristic and advanced pieces rather than balanced ones, same goes to the point of stability, as the aircraft its not aerodynamic at all (i am using FAR mod).

I REALLY hoped to see the gabinet do.... something, but instead it just waste space. I also actually expected the cockpits to have hidden solar panels (wich actually would be cool)

I dont really know why the airlock part, but unless it is compatible with TAC life support, unlike the cargo structure, its just a nice looking part.

What should really make the whole thing about going inside the ship better would be an artificial gravity system, wich if i am not wrong would need to almost remake the game's gravity data.

Just 1 final suggestion: try to add more info to the cockpits, 1/2 MFD its not enough, usually a ship that should be able to play with no HUD at all should have at least 2-3 MFD, (5-6 maximum), a physicall navball on the cockpit, and if possible, an MFD showing the % of the thorttle (as shown with the MFD in the ASET addon).

I guess a resume of this comment would be that while i love this, it looks that the mod its more of a cosmetic one rather than actually add parts to make it work normally.

I still want to know how the mod goes, and trust me, IT IS hard to go around the ship using the EVA suits with the camera control against you, and it would be a small fix but a fix nonetheless to be able to turn on/off the lights of the cockpit.

[cttw]

I agree with some of your points, Dr. Death.

- The cockpit needs more mfds

- The parts are too heavy. I'd make them about 1/3 as heavy, considering you need so many of them to get even the simplest enclosed space.

- The parts do not work well with FAR, but I have no idea what the cause is. A classic simple low speed plane flies like a borg cube.

- Magnetic shoes would be awesome if they can be made

[ahappydude]

"What should really make the whole thing about going inside the ship better would be an artificial gravity system, wich if i am not wrong would need to almost remake the game's gravity data."

No it doesnt And yes he is working on it I dont know what engines you used with it but for me all parts works as they should... As for eva it also works ^^ Try lacklusters if you havnt allready

For magnetic uses, try he squid system, you can make a set of shoes but if you dont use kas they will be static part which a belt would be an easier soloution. Sure they weigh much but i think its pretty realstic for the sizes and the uses of the parts.

[Alskari]

engines dont fit/dont look right.

Previously I've pointed people to the Hybrid Engines mod, but that has since gone away I'm a bit at a loss. I have no desire to make this mod completely standalone... at least at this point. I don't know what to tell you other than that I'll help you get started on blender and Unity.

Besides that, i am using the small command pod, and damn, dude, JUST 50 electricity units? i think you should have them to at least 500, i am making these suggestions based on the fact that this mod is to bring futuristic and advanced pieces rather than balanced ones

I'm open to changes in .cfg edits, but 500 seems a bit OP. Generally my goal is to bring reasonably balanced parts to the table.

same goes to the point of stability, as the aircraft its not aerodynamic at all (i am using FAR mod).

- The parts do not work well with FAR, but I have no idea what the cause is. A classic simple low speed plane flies like a borg cube.

Maybe I need to put this in the OP, but do not try to make planes that work with FAR using this mod. This mod will be a nightmare to use for planes with FAR, and even stock KSP makes for a mess. Hollow parts are just not an original design consideration, and as such not handled well.

I REALLY hoped to see the gabinet do.... something, but instead it just waste space. I also actually expected the cockpits to have hidden solar panels (wich actually would be cool)

Yeah some of these parts are meant to be cosmetic only, add a bit of flair to common areas. KAS storage containers are probably more effective.

I dont really know why the airlock part, but unless it is compatible with TAC life support, unlike the cargo structure, its just a nice looking part.

Parts like these are for roleplay or cosmetic stuff. Obviously you don't need to enclose anything.

What should really make the whole thing about going inside the ship better would be an artificial gravity system, wich if i am not wrong would need to almost remake the game's gravity data.

- Magnetic shoes would be awesome if they can be made

Hopefully it isn't that difficult. I'm trying on the magnetic shoes, but I haven't had much time.

Just 1 final suggestion: try to add more info to the cockpits, 1/2 MFD its not enough, usually a ship that should be able to play with no HUD at all should have at least 2-3 MFD, (5-6 maximum), a physicall navball on the cockpit, and if possible, an MFD showing the % of the thorttle (as shown with the MFD in the ASET addon).

- The cockpit needs more mfds

Internals can be a pain to do and I feel like there are more important things to do at the moment. Original plans included many more MFDs but they cause some pretty substantial lag when used with the sfr/HSH internal modules. Also I have to consider that with the sfr/HSH internals you may not have functional IVAs as is. I'm placing that problem first.

be able to turn on/off the lights of the cockpit.

I thought this was already the case. I'll check that out.

- The parts are too heavy. I'd make them about 1/3 as heavy, considering you need so many of them to get even the simplest enclosed space.

I consider these already extremely light. I can get sizable structures into orbit with extremely lazy lifters. Generally I would expect some additional trouble getting large structures to other planets.

it looks that the mod its more of a cosmetic one rather than actually add parts to make it work normally.

I held this one out for last. This mod is really just a cosmetic mod. The original scope of KSP did not consider hollow parts. As a result lots of things don't work quite right. The command pods, hab-cubes, and airlocks are really just to add to the atmosphere of the mod. I'm not sure what 'normal' use would be for any of these parts. These are definitely not the best way to do anything, and if you are looking for a mod to help you get to Eeloo easier I would never recommend this one. I would like to also mention the 'futuristic and advanced' comment. Bringing balanced parts to the game is hard; bringing OP parts is easy. If you want to have OP parts you can get there in a few minutes by editing .cfg files. No offense meant, I can understand what you want, but my point is that these parts are originally designed to add a new challenge to the game after you've already done everything else. If someone wants to create a set of OP configs I'll gladly post a link to the download.

Lastly I want to really express that I do appreciate the feedback and the time you all take to play the mod. I know a lot of my answers seem to brush aside your requests, but I am trying to explain the current implementation and design intent behind it. I hope this doesn't come across as aggressive or unpleasant, but I just don't have enough time to do all the things I want, and as such I've got to stay focused. Currently there is a huge pile of things to do for this mod, so I'm more inclined to explain why I won't do something than just do it. Thank you again for the time you've taken here and I hope you stick around to see how this develops in the future.

(Lastly, Lastly, if you want to learn how to mod I'd be glad to help anyone)

[cttw]

Hi, thank you for your replies. Getting the parts in orbit is no problem, of course, but getting them anywhere with an interesting dV is a different thing. Maybe you see these as space station parts, but I see them as spaceship and plane parts. I understand they might not work well with planes, and that was also a reason I would like them lighter. But even so for space travel, dV suffers a lot.

As for the cockpit MFDs, I feel they are missing because your mod (together with the first person cam mod, I need to find that again) it awesome for role-playing. It doubles the joy of KSP for me.

[ahappydude]

Hi, thank you for your replies. Getting the parts in orbit is no problem, of course, but getting them anywhere with an interesting dV is a different thing. Maybe you see these as space station parts, but I see them as spaceship and plane parts. I understand they might not work well with planes, and that was also a reason I would like them lighter. But even so for space travel, dV suffers a lot.

As for the cockpit MFDs, I feel they are missing because your mod (together with the first person cam mod, I need to find that again) it awesome for role-playing. It doubles the joy of KSP for me.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/67695-WIP-Through-the-Eyes-of-a-Kerbal-0-0-2c-2-16-14-1st-person-EVA%28Now-toggleable!%29 I use that one, this is the only mod and plugin i uses for making stations but for it it works great for making rockets to, so i think you maybe are thinking wrong when building them or you build them in a very specefic set of way =)

The same is for manuaering them, im playiong career and with other parts like struts , asas, winglets etc you can combine them with hollows to make great things happend. If you feel the need for them to be lighter then maybe you should rescale some parts yourself and see if that would do it ?

I dont know if you are using modded engines, but stock+ custom ones , esp laklusters works good both with the adapters and without. What kind of things do you mostly build in ksp?

Edited April 7, 2014 by ahappydude

[cttw]

Well with this mod I tried to make an antimatter powered fuel-less space plane with room to later carry a rover. It was a straight design, cockpit, 2x 2meter cube sections, and a cargo bay at the rear. It had an engine stack on each side, and a simple low speed wing design (I gave up on supersonic design) and a light tail. Taking off and just turning around the space center was awkward and unstable, but I guess that could have been my lacking plane design. However I have build dozens of antimatter spaceplanes which work very well, both based on single and double engine stacks.

Before adding the engine stacks, I already had like 20 tons of structure, for what looked like a couple aluminium cube frames. and floor/window bits. Never loaded a rover.

The engine stack is a bit large, but didn't cause me trouble before. It's intake, precooler, am tank, electric generator, am reactor, turbojet (interstellar) and a vacuumplasma thurster to the side.

[Alskari]

Hi, thank you for your replies. Getting the parts in orbit is no problem, of course, but getting them anywhere with an interesting dV is a different thing. Maybe you see these as space station parts, but I see them as spaceship and plane parts. I understand they might not work well with planes, and that was also a reason I would like them lighter. But even so for space travel, dV suffers a lot.

As for the cockpit MFDs, I feel they are missing because your mod (together with the first person cam mod, I need to find that again) it awesome for role-playing. It doubles the joy of KSP for me.

I definitely wish these parts were better suited to spaceships. In my early modding days I had created a high mass gas core reactor which was made to be paired with very low weight nozzles. This would allow for flexible designs which could essentially power different nozzles for different situations, much like a VTOL. I have not dabbled into particle effects yet, and that would be required for a legitimate attempt at something like this. That is probably going to be one of the last things I work on. Perhaps in the interim I should consider making all of the parts act as heat sinks.... to at least make part packs like Interstellar interesting.

My internals are not up to what I would like. The MFDs are an easy work around for me, and I wish I could slap 5 of them on the walled station without causing terrible lag. It is something I need to look into, but I just haven't yet because I still haven't solved the rotation issues and several other bugs.

I'm sorry that this is 'immersion' breaking, because I want to offer the kind of experience you're looking for. In the mean time if you want to try mass editing the .cfg files I would recommend Notepad++. (It has a 'replace all' for all open documents that can be very handy)

EDIT: Just saw your post. I'd be very curious to see either the craft file or screenshots so I can better grasp what you're trying to do.

EDIT: EDIT: Perhaps you have a point on the weight of these parts. I was sticking to my guns because I'd done the balancing based off of steel, however aluminum is much lighter than I realized. That would require some substantial .cfg rework. (argh) I really need to rework things anyway.... looking at it in detail now. I feel the vessel would end up with a net increase in weight though.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Alskari

[Dr. Death]

i thought that because of the way gravity worked in the game you couldn't add more than one single gravity?

[One-Way Films]

I would kill for some parts resembling parts of a ship from star-citzen. I said this here because you, Alskari, posses amazing talent in making hollow KSP structures. I'm not saying you have to. It would kickass if you made parts of the Aurora or the Freelancer in hollowed out KSP style. And I think many, many people would think the same. T'is only a suggestion.

Here's the Freelancer just in case you haven't heard of Star Citzen.

And here's the inside

Edited April 7, 2014 by One-Way Films

[Dr. Death]

Well.... i have to say that if these parts look futuristic, are balanced, yet they work for comsetics then i am not sure where is this heading, if everythign is cosmetic just for the sake of it then it would be better to use hyperedit to put your ship on orbit, but then it would have little purpose.

Its not that i find a problem that parts are balanced, its that they are as balanced as a stock KSP part is, and KSP appears to be "set" in an age around the 70's/80's (based on gauges, parts, etc.) and this looks like ****ing 1k years ahead and.... i was just surprised that you were aiming for the balanced approach. (altough, rooms, while useless, do store kerbals, and they look fantastic).

I would just say that i DID noticed the way the airlocks doors open/close (appearing out of the sides and getting magically bigger until they close)

And i am 80% sure you DO know this.... but cargo bay part lags..... BAD. just used 2 of the 1 meter ones and my FPS went from 60 to 25

[Alskari]

I would kill for some parts resembling parts of a ship from star-citzen. I said this here because you, Alskari, posses amazing talent in making hollow KSP structures. I'm not saying you have to. It would kickass if you made parts of the Aurora or the Freelancer in hollowed out KSP style. And I think many, many people would think the same. T'is only a suggestion.

Here's the Freelancer just in case you haven't heard of Star Citzen.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121229025507/starcitizen/images/0/01/Freelancer_glamour_shot.png

And here's the inside

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121229023852/starcitizen/images/5/5c/Misc-swide-view.jpg

Interesting. I didn't notice the second picture until I quoted you. Honestly awesome spaceships are an endgoal of mine. For the moment I'm working through what I would consider the base and station portions of the project. As I get things done and more alternative parts to flesh out structures I'll begin working on hulls of the sort you linked.

Well.... i have to say that if these parts look futuristic, are balanced, yet they work for comsetics then i am not sure where is this heading, if everythign is cosmetic just for the sake of it then it would be better to use hyperedit to put your ship on orbit, but then it would have little purpose.

Its not that i find a problem that parts are balanced, its that they are as balanced as a stock KSP part is, and KSP appears to be "set" in an age around the 70's/80's (based on gauges, parts, etc.) and this looks like ****ing 1k years ahead and.... i was just surprised that you were aiming for the balanced approach. (altough, rooms, while useless, do store kerbals, and they look fantastic).

I would just say that i DID noticed the way the airlocks doors open/close (appearing out of the sides and getting magically bigger until they close)

And i am 80% sure you DO know this.... but cargo bay part lags..... BAD. just used 2 of the 1 meter ones and my FPS went from 60 to 25

Well to be honest the .cfg balancing isn't something that I'm great about, and as I've developed this mod the scope has drifted. Perhaps I need to make an 'op as !@#' optional engine system or something.

Regarding the airlock animation; you should know that this mod represents my learning process in a lot of ways. Some designs don't allow for reasonable looking animations, and I don't have the time/interest to redesign them. So for the moment it does have the simpleton animation.

Yeah the animations are pretty intensive. One think I've come to appreciate is how much harder it is to make hollow parts. Not just the collision meshes, but also the modeling becomes a lot more difficult. I really ought to optimize my models, but for the moment I think they are workable.

EDIT: not to mention the landing legs I have out right now are also awful.

[ahappydude]

Dont be so hard on yourself, think about how long this project of yours have come!

And i dissagree about those cfg edits, i think the players who like that can edit it themselves til they happy , all time ivbeen playing around with hsh i never needed to use hyperedit lol. Im as alskari is curious what you are building so share some screens !

And as i wrote earlier you can use the ram saving plugin fine with this parts to get some more fps^^

Hmm starcitizen inspired ships.. Good thougt, are there a good place for referecne pictures? Alskari your first version had that big rund deck looking hulls, with that you could make layers or levels. I think its possible I even might try my hand in making an hollow example of an inspired starcitiezen vessel.. A small first just to try it.

Anywho i think this plugin and part sets desevere mod of the month if we had that feature here (Y) Big thumbs up

Drdeath, i mean, to say rooms are useless are harsh in my mind.. :S Iv made a big hangar with them, living quarters, inhouse lab. For me any of the parts are far from just looking pretty but hey that may be my playstyle.

I think the landinglegs looked like the legs from the white shuttle in the oldschool sw movies, which are great

And the gravity stays, sort of. Its more the state the vessel and kerbal is in. Or which direction we apply or subtract force

Edited April 7, 2014 by ahappydude