[0.23.5] Spherical and Toroidal Tank Pack (Updated 05/02/14) (New download link)

[Talisar]

Lol, yeah. I'll get them in there as well

[JewelShisen]

Lol, yeah. I'll get them in there as well

Hooray!!!!

[Kerba Fett]

Glad to hear the spherical pods are in the works. I can't wait to try them.

I tried to upsize one of your toroidal tanks to see if I could come up with a 2001 inspired station, but didn't have much luck. Since there's no rescaleFactor in the config it's assumed that it's currently 1.25 so adding the line RescaleFactor = 5 should make me a copy 4X as big with a core diameter of 10m. I added it into your model definition and when I load the game it has a new name, but not a new size.

Model

{

model = ModsByTal/Parts/FuelTank/Models/TAL_Large_Toroidal_Tank

scale = 0.8, 0.8, 0.8

texture = TAL_Large_Toroidal_Tank_Texture , ModsByTal/Parts/FuelTank/Resource-LFO/Textures/TAL_Large_Toroidal_Tank_Texture_LFO

RescaleFactor = 5

}

Should I have added it outside the model definition or is the "scale =" line overridding the "rescaleFactor =" line?

[Talisar]

I'm not certain, but I believe your problem is that you capitalized the "R" in rescaleFactor

[sojourner]

Heh, I tried using rescaleFactor in one of the small tanks with the 1.25 endcaps to try and make a medium tank. never did get the sizing right and the connection nodes always ended up either outside the model or buried in it. I think it had something to do with the scale = 0.8, 0.8, 0.8. I even tried changing the numbers on that as well. Never got a result that worked. The bug report about the interaction between the 2 settings didn't help either. No combination of x * y = 1 worked for me.

[Talisar]

I'm honestly not certain why it behaves like this. When put in directories in the previous manner (meaning the mesh, texture, and cfg all in the same directory) and having instead of using the MODEL node put in:

mesh = TAL_Large_Toroidal_Tank.mu

scale = 1

then the parts were showing up as exactly the same way. When I used the MODEL node, I just did a bit of trial and error in order to get the scale correct when in KSP. I haven't changed the sizes I'm modelling parts in, the export settings, or the settings in unity in any way from when I modeled the first set of tanks, so it has to be something about the way the cfg is read.

When I make something that will be 2.5m diameter in KSP, I model it at 2m, and then it was automatically rescaled by 1.25. Now, it seems as if when using the MODEL node then the part is rescaled by a little more than 1.55x and I have to downscale it in order for it to be the right size in-game, which is the reason for the 0.8, 0.8, 0.8. I suppose I could import it into unity at .8 scale, then use 1.0 for the scale in the model, but I don't think that would make any difference with the rescaleFactor issue you're having. I think you'd have to change the scale factors and manually adjust the stack node positions as well.

[sojourner]

Yeah, don't trouble yourself over it. I think it has more to do with me not understanding exactly how the settings interact rather than how you built the parts.

[Kerba Fett]

It wasn't the capitilized R in the RescaleFactor. I changed that and it still didn't resize. I also tried moving the rescaleFactor = line outside of your model definition and it still wouldn't resize. Finally I tried setting your Scale =.8 lines to scale = 3.2 and it finally resized.

After all that, it still doesn't really look right as a station. The size of the hub is too big compared to the diameter of the rim and the thickness of the rim is too big compared to it's diameter.

This torus has the proportions of a scooter wheel and a station needs to be closer to the proportions of a motorcycle wheel.

[Talisar]

I'll add variations of the toroidal tanks to my list for future development. Larger ones for station building and smaller probe sized ones as well. Railgunner2160 mentioned that they were very susceptible to wobble, so I'll have to do some more testing with them.

Since I'm commenting here, I'll put in a quick progress report on my progress on the first update, since there seems to be some interest.

Completed:

Medium Spherical and Half-Spherical tanks with 2.5m endcaps

Adjusted incorrect capacities for the Toroidal tanks

Adjusted incorrect capacities for Monopropellant tanks (I'm surprised no one mentioned this one... they were about half what they should have been)

Added Xenon tanks in all the variations

Still to-do:

Add surface attachment mounts (I may just copy these directly from the previous pack. I don't think they need any adjustments other than playing with the mass a bit)

Add tanks for EL mod (Won't take long once I find out what the resource names and densities should be)

So, not much left for this update!

[Starwaster]

Heh, I tried using rescaleFactor in one of the small tanks with the 1.25 endcaps to try and make a medium tank. never did get the sizing right and the connection nodes always ended up either outside the model or buried in it. I think it had something to do with the scale = 0.8, 0.8, 0.8. I even tried changing the numbers on that as well. Never got a result that worked. The bug report about the interaction between the 2 settings didn't help either. No combination of x * y = 1 worked for me.

FYI, the rescale command isn't linear... or something. Crap, I'm not clear on details and I forget, but you have to use the square root of the desired scale or square the desired scale (huge difference, sorry, I forget!)

There's a thread around here somewhere that tells all about it, search for it.

To give an example, I wanted to turn one of Tal's hemisphere tanks into an rounded cap for other fuel tanks. It was the medium sized (3.75) originally and to get the cap to fit on a 3.75 tank I had to do THIS:

	MODEL
	{
		model = ModsByTal/Parts/FuelTank/TAL_HalfSphericalTankMedium/model
		scale = 1.1180339887498948482045868343656, 0.25, 1.1180339887498948482045868343656
	}
	scale = 1
	rescaleFactor = 1

Go ahead and give that a try and see what it looks like in-game. Actually, looking at that number now, it doesn't look like the square of 3.75 at all so I don't even know what size I was going for. But it does fit! Something...

[Starwaster]

Oh, any chance of spherical tanks that don't have the cap on top? So we can have them totally rounded?

[Talisar]

Oh, any chance of spherical tanks that don't have the cap on top? So we can have them totally rounded?

It's technically possible, but I'd have to remake the model from scratch. My very first try at these tanks were totally round with separate mounts that could be added wherever you wanted, but when using regular spheres the texturing gets fiddly at the top and bottom where polys come to a single point. The way to do this would be to either use a geosphere (which don't have this particular problem), or map the top of the sphere separately (I did this on the command pod that I posted a pic of earlier, but I had to add those bands around the top and bottom to avoid having unsightly seam issues with the texture)

In short, I can add it to the "do in the future" list, but I likely won't get to it right away.

[cy-one]

I would appreciate round tanks with only one port, too. And I think, a "band" around the top (or near it) wouldn't be a problem.

[Talisar]

Update has been completed and uploaded to spaceport

v2.1

- Added Medium tanks with 2.5m connectors

- Added tanks containing Xenon

- Added tanks containing Metal, Ore, and RocketParts for EPL Mod

- Corrected capacities of Toroidal fuel tanks

- Corrected capacities of small Monopropellant tanks

- Added surface attachable mounts

[Virtualgenius]

I love these things any chance of some bracketing like on Large structural http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/34664-Large-Structural-Station-Components-20-Compatible-Release-Thread

[Rybec]

I considered doing them with just a single texture like the one that is on them now, which would have made this pack WAY smaller, but my experience from the first pack was that a lot of people really liked having the ability to make custom textures for the parts, and this was the easiest way that I saw to keep that option available. It's also the reason I switched to using .png files instead of .mbm's in the original pack That being said, I am always trying to learn and improved. I appreciate this and any other tips you may have

What about a compromise? Have a single shared texture for each resource type? Otherwise, if a custom texture is desired, can't the person making it just change the texture path in the configs? Potentially, you could go another step and use multiple model nodes to construct the tanks. Have four separate models that get re-used to build all the tanks: A half-sphere, a band, a cap, and a stripe. Then, you just position and re-scale them as needed to make the desired tank. All the caps can share a single smaller texture, the bands can share a texture, the tanks can share a texture, and have a texture for each color of stripe. Doing it this way, custom textures can be very small. If they only want to change the color of the band, then all that is required is a new band texture which could be as small as 2x2 pixels if it's a solid color. If you want stripes on your stripes could be a 2x16 or 32 or whatever, depending on how many stripes are desired. Maybe even less, depending on how Unity handles UV coordinates outside 0-1. If it tiles the image for out-of-bounds UVs you could get away with 2x2 and just paint one side a different color. Other combinations such as spherical tanks with only one cap become trivial to create with negligible memory impact. This could be applied to the toroidal tanks as well, have a few different thicknesses of torus, a rod model, and a plate model. Making specialized toroidal tanks becomes as simple as choosing an appropriately proportional torus, setting it's scale, and putting the plate/rods on it in the config. The toroids could probably share the same textures as the tanks, and the plate model could even just be the center band model. All I know is unfortunately this pack is now too large for me to use. I'm running right up against the limits of how much RAM KSP can use and 100 mb would push it right back into crash territory. If you break it apart and re-use texture that could easily drop down to about 10 mb. Break the models up and push texture re-use to it's limit and who knows, maybe it could fit in less than 5 mb. Edited September 3, 2013 by Rybec

[taniwha]

- Added tanks containing Metal, Ore, and RocketParts for EPL Mod

I guess I can remove the configs from EL .

[Talisar]

I guess I can remove the configs from EL .

I also should point out that I ripped the resource amounts and configurations directly from your EL config for the old set. Probably should have asked first, but I plead tiredness and the desire to get the pack uploaded before I went to bed. I hope that's all right with you.

[smunisto]

Man, I love the tanks, but with all these textures and models the pack is certainly getting large.If you ever decide to go for a one texture+model resizing optimization I am voting "For" too, as other users suggested.Even after deleting all unused by me tanks, such as LF, Oxygen, EL types and stuff and left only Kethane, LFO and Mono, the pack is still 43mb.If i was using just 1-2 mods, that would have been ok, but currently this seems to have too much of a memory footprint.

[Hawkstorm]

Please could you include the 3 radial mounts form 1.6 they were damn useful.

[JewelShisen]

Hey um not sure if this was intended or not but the two sizes of medium halfsphere tank for EL have different storage amounts. The 1E model holds 6000 while the new 2E only holds 2400? Was this intended or is it just a small error?

[JewelShisen]

Please could you include the 3 radial mounts form 1.6 they were damn useful.

Get the update. They are there.

[Talisar]

Man, I love the tanks, but with all these textures and models the pack is certainly getting large.If you ever decide to go for a one texture+model resizing optimization I am voting "For" too, as other users suggested.Even after deleting all unused by me tanks, such as LF, Oxygen, EL types and stuff and left only Kethane, LFO and Mono, the pack is still 43mb.If i was using just 1-2 mods, that would have been ok, but currently this seems to have too much of a memory footprint.

I'll see what I can do to improve this in the future. The number of tanks that this pack includes grew far beyond what I expected, so this is definitely becoming more of an issue quickly

Please could you include the 3 radial mounts form 1.6 they were damn useful.

They are in the v2.1 update that I just posted, along with the other mounts I made up recently. They should be in the structural tab.

[taniwha]

I also should point out that I ripped the resource amounts and configurations directly from your EL config for the old set. Probably should have asked first, but I plead tiredness and the desire to get the pack uploaded before I went to bed. I hope that's all right with you.

It's quite alright with me! I don't suppose you ripped the part name too, did you? That would make the transition easier If you didn't, I'll updated them with "deprecated" in the description.

[Talisar]

Hey um not sure if this was intended or not but the two sizes of medium halfsphere tank for EL have different storage amounts. The 1E model holds 6000 while the new 2E only holds 2400? Was this intended or is it just a small error?

It was an error. They both should be 2400 for the EL resources