[0.23.5] Spherical and Toroidal Tank Pack (Updated 05/02/14) (New download link)

[JewelShisen]

Tonight I'll try my hand at making some textures for you ok?

[Rybec]

I'd like this idea quite a bit, but I'm not a programmer so I'd have no idea of how to go about making a plugin to accomplish this. The other major roadblock to this (for me at least) is that right now this is just a parts pack, so game updates are unlikely to break it, but making it plugin dependent would probably make it susceptible. I have been looking at options on accomplishing this, since the pack got so large, however.

You can always leverage off of existing plugins. Firespitter has a module for changing textures that might work. I'm looking at one of the part configs that uses it, and it looks like you target a sub-object of the unity model and then provide a list of possible textures. If you separated the colored bands off to their own texture, it would let you change band colors with a little popup in the action editor. I suppose, theoretically, you could add the module twice and have the ability to switch band colors and tank skins independently.

As for customizing the contents, there's always Modular Fuel Systems. I've made a set of configs for myself that adds a "modular" tank type (this was easier than creating module manager settings to add the capability to all existing tanks).

And of course, you can always release it as two separate versions of the pack: The current version, with all the pages of tanks, and the modular 3rd party plugin-driven version. Moreover, looking at some of my ships in the persistence file, if an update breaks the plugins existing ships would still work. MFS changes the resource values of the part in the ship itself, so the plugin doesn't need to be active for ships to load correctly, and if Firespitter can't load it should just revert to default textures and probably re-assume the chosen textures once the plugin is restored.

[Talisar]

You can always leverage off of existing plugins. Firespitter has a module for changing textures that might work. I'm looking at one of the part configs that uses it, and it looks like you target a sub-object of the unity model and then provide a list of possible textures. If you separated the colored bands off to their own texture, it would let you change band colors with a little popup in the action editor. I suppose, theoretically, you could add the module twice and have the ability to switch band colors and tank skins independently.

As for customizing the contents, there's always Modular Fuel Systems. I've made a set of configs for myself that adds a "modular" tank type (this was easier than creating module manager settings to add the capability to all existing tanks).

And of course, you can always release it as two separate versions of the pack: The current version, with all the pages of tanks, and the modular 3rd party plugin-driven version. Moreover, looking at some of my ships in the persistence file, if an update breaks the plugins existing ships would still work. MFS changes the resource values of the part in the ship itself, so the plugin doesn't need to be active for ships to load correctly, and if Firespitter can't load it should just revert to default textures and probably re-assume the chosen textures once the plugin is restored.

Hmmm, the way that I have the new pack set up, the bands and caps already use a separate texture from the tanks (one of the main reasons for the new models instead of just an update to the old pack), so if Firespitter has that functionality it should be easy to integrate it. I'll definately look into both that and a modulemanager powered one. If I can make it work, it wouldn't be too hard to do two packs as you suggest, one with the plugins and one that is vanilla.

I'll research this and see if I can make it work. Thank you much for both the suggestions and the info!

[Cleric2145]

Could somebody potentially add in some kind of adapter/decoupler set? It's pretty tricky to put a 2.5m sphere inside of a 2.5m rocket and keep it stable. I'm thinking some kind of metal girder type structure with a flat base and a rounded 'cradle' for the bottom of the sphere to sit into.

[Talisar]

Could somebody potentially add in some kind of adapter/decoupler set? It's pretty tricky to put a 2.5m sphere inside of a 2.5m rocket and keep it stable. I'm thinking some kind of metal girder type structure with a flat base and a rounded 'cradle' for the bottom of the sphere to sit into.

I played around with designs of exactly what you are describing. They looked pretty cool, but don't really do anything to help with wobble, since they are really only attached at the nodes. They actually make the wobble a bit more noticeable because the cradle part would bounce around. When I made one that had colliders for the cradle, I was able to strut the sphere to them and make it more solid, but it entails a pretty complex collider design which (from what I have read) would impact performance.

[ultrasquid]

Could somebody potentially add in some kind of adapter/decoupler set? It's pretty tricky to put a 2.5m sphere inside of a 2.5m rocket and keep it stable. I'm thinking some kind of metal girder type structure with a flat base and a rounded 'cradle' for the bottom of the sphere to sit into.

Consider that all the apparently cylindrical fuel tanks out there actually would have hemispheric, or at least ovoid domed ends on them, concealed by an outer shroud. Compressed gases would force flat-ended cylinders out into such a shape anyway, so containers for compressed gases are given that shape to avoid fighting the natural forces. It's similar to the reason plastic soda bottles are shaped the way they are. It took decades of engineering for Coca Cola to produce their trademarked curved bottle in plastic, because the CO2 dissolved in the liquid would cause it to bulge out without special reinforcement. Up until then, and still now with other brands, the basic domed cylinder remains the standard.

You could argue that an exposed truss of some kind might give a weight advantage over a cylindrical shroud over the domed end of the tank, and that certainly might be the case with very large ones, but aerodynamic drag would be substantially increased, likely negating the effect of any weight advantage at launch.

I still like the spherical tanks. They look cool, and hemispheres have more fuel capacity than similar conical adapters.

[Ashtoruin]

Could we get a 2.5m Radial mount? or how hard would it be for me to copy and modify the 1.25m one?

[Talisar]

It wouldn't be hard for you to modify the cfg for the one. All you'd have to do is change the rescalefactor line. I'm not at my home computer atm, so I can't tell you exactly the correct number though. I'll take a look at it when I get home and let you know if someone else doesn't do it before then.

[Talisar]

Ok, to add one of the radial mounts that fits 2.5m parts, here is the config:

PART
{
// --- general parameters ---

name = TAL_Extended_Radial_Mount_Large
module = Part
author = Talisar

// --- asset parameters ---

mesh = RadialMount.mu
scale = 1
rescaleFactor = 2.5

// --- node definitions ---
// definition format is Position X, Position Y, Position Z, Up X, Up Y, Up Z

node_attach_front =   0.0,  0.0, 0.7, 0.0,  0.0, -1.0, 1
node_stack_bottom =   0.0, -0.6, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0,  0.0, 1

// --- editor parameters ---

cost = 100000
category = Structural
subcategory = 0
title = Large Radial Mount
manufacturer = Talisar
description = A radial adapter for mounting 2.5m parts.

// attachment rules: stack, srfAttach, allowStack, allowSrfAttach, allowCollision

attachRules = 0,1,1,1,0

// --- standard part parameters ---

mass = 0.35
dragModelType = default
maximum_drag = 0.2
minimum_drag = 0.3
angularDrag = 2
crashTolerance = 6
breakingForce = 10000
breakingTorque = 10000
maxTemp = 2900
}

You can either make a new empty cfg file in that folder and paste that into it, or just add it to the end of the existing one (make sure it's after the final "}" ) Be warned, the resulting mount looks HUGE!

[Ashtoruin]

Ok, to add one of the radial mounts that fits 2.5m parts, here is the config:

PART
{
// --- general parameters ---

name = TAL_Extended_Radial_Mount_Large
module = Part
author = Talisar

// --- asset parameters ---

mesh = RadialMount.mu
scale = 1
rescaleFactor = 2.5

// --- node definitions ---
// definition format is Position X, Position Y, Position Z, Up X, Up Y, Up Z

node_attach_front =   0.0,  0.0, 0.7, 0.0,  0.0, -1.0, 1
node_stack_bottom =   0.0, -0.6, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0,  0.0, 1

// --- editor parameters ---

cost = 100000
category = Structural
subcategory = 0
title = Large Radial Mount
manufacturer = Talisar
description = A radial adapter for mounting 2.5m parts.

// attachment rules: stack, srfAttach, allowStack, allowSrfAttach, allowCollision

attachRules = 0,1,1,1,0

// --- standard part parameters ---

mass = 0.35
dragModelType = default
maximum_drag = 0.2
minimum_drag = 0.3
angularDrag = 2
crashTolerance = 6
breakingForce = 10000
breakingTorque = 10000
maxTemp = 2900
}

You can either make a new empty cfg file in that folder and paste that into it, or just add it to the end of the existing one (make sure it's after the final "}" ) Be warned, the resulting mount looks HUGE!

Well KSPI Thermal Rockets are HUGE :3

[NeoAcario]

So what's next in the works, Talisar? Any plans for more toroidal tanks? Really interesting concept. I was actually hoping to keep the 7.5m diameter and give it a 1m mount, but that would involve more editing than a simple scale change.

Keep up the good work.

~Steve

[Scotius]

Actually, i would like some round, radial tanks. Something like this, but for different fuels and kethane:

Picture copied from there:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/51395-WIP-Nert-s-Models-Current-VASIMR-fission-reactors/page3

[Talisar]

So what's next in the works, Talisar? Any plans for more toroidal tanks? Really interesting concept. I was actually hoping to keep the 7.5m diameter and give it a 1m mount, but that would involve more editing than a simple scale change.

Keep up the good work.

~Steve

Actually, i would like some round, radial tanks. Something like this, but for different fuels and kethane:

- snip -

Thanks for the encouragement! I've been playing around with several different things lately and not making enough progress on any of them.

Toroidal Tanks - I've been playing around with these, trying to come up with a design that will allow several sizes but allow the sharing of textures and models in order to keep the memory footprint low. I'm thinking that the current 7.5m diameter would be the smallest size for a 2.5m attachment and the largest for the 1.25m attachment. I've also been playing around with a design that is basically surface attached which should allow you to place it anywhere along a part of the correct diameter.

Command Pods - I think I've managed to get the design bugs worked out of the ones that I made earlier, so now it's time to apply what I learned to some better looking ones (both spherical and non-spherical). I'd definitely like to see more variety in command pod/crew tank choices out there, and I have a few ideas.

Base building parts - I've also been playing with designs for some modules to be used in space station/ground base construction. The ones that I've made I'm pretty happy with, but I think they're a bit too similar to some of the things in Lack's LLC pack (which is what I generally use for ground bases), so I'm trying to modify the aesthetic on them so they're distinct.

Modular SEV - This one kind of combines a lot of the stuff from the command pods and base parts. I've been making some models for a SEV that has interchangeable parts so it could be used for multiple mission profiles depending on what parts you choose (Rover, space station tug, crew transport, science vessel, etc). My goal with this is to have it completely modular among the parts made for it, as well as for the individual parts to be able to be used with the stock sizes through adapters if people wanted.

Spherical tanks - I've been looking at some designs for radially mounted spherical tanks as well, also thinking about possibly custom mounts with included decouplers for those and the current models.

Structural components - I've made up a set of structural girders to use in lieu of the stock ones. The core piece is exactly 1m long in game, and they are modular, so by reusing models I've made configs to add lengths from 1m to 10m, and done a resize to add slimmer versions with half the length. I actually made these for my own personal use to decrease part counts, but they're pretty much ready for release if anyone is interested. I'll post screenshots later today.

As you can see, lately I've been kind of like a kid at the circus who wants to see EVERYTHING FIRST so can't get anything completed at all. I've also been working on improving my texturing skills (which I'm sure all will agree are probably my weakest skill when it comes to these parts). If you'd like, I'll post renders of some of the stuff I've been playing around with later on and see what you all would be most interested in first.

*edit* I've also been thinking that the current pack of spherical tanks grew a bit out of control with the amount of tanks that it adds due to the different resources. I think for future releases I'll pare it down to just LFO and Monopropellant for the core pack, and add download links on the main post for zips containing the cfgs and textures for additional resources. I intend to support them still, but don't want to bloat people's part lists unnecessarily.

TL;DR - I'm still here, just need to adjust my focus a bit

Edited October 10, 2013 by Talisar

[Talisar]

Ok, as promised above, a few screens of what I've been doing lately.

Structural hub and 1m girder:

Adapters, 1.25m and 2.5m

Comparison. The one on the left is full size, the middle is stock, and the one on the right is scaled down 50%

I have made up configs that provide girders in lengths of .5m, 1m, 2m, 3m, 5m, and 10m. Also, everything in the pics above use a single texture among them, so it's actually a very tiny mod.

And the SEV cockpit and module concept:

I'm also thinking of making multiple nose pieces for the cockpit that would have things such as lights, or a standard 0.625 attachment point.

Let me know what you think!

[Frederf]

Is anyone else seeing the radial attachment points set at 2.5MT mass all sizes?

[sojourner]

Hey Talisar,

I have an idea for a command pod but not the skills. Maybe you'd be interested in it? The intent was for this to be a 3 man pod that looked a bit different than all the apollo style cones we've been getting. I also wanted something that would work well for a lander. The rough images I have here are of a 2.5 base and 1.25 nose to match stock parts. Anyway, take a look and feel free to use or ignore as you see fit:

(click on the thumbnail images for larger views)

[Talisar]

Is anyone else seeing the radial attachment points set at 2.5MT mass all sizes?

I think you are using an old version of the mod. The masses of those are corrected in the most recent version available here: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/?p=31849. Be aware though, if you are using a VERY old version of the mod (1.6 or older) upgrading to the most current one will add all new parts due to the new file structure started in v2.0 of my pack.

Hey Talisar,

I have an idea for a command pod but not the skills. Maybe you'd be interested in it? The intent was for this to be a 3 man pod that looked a bit different than all the apollo style cones we've been getting. I also wanted something that would work well for a lander. The rough images I have here are of a 2.5 base and 1.25 nose to match stock parts. Anyway, take a look and feel free to use or ignore as you see fit:

That's a cool design idea, I like it. One of the reasons I've been playing around with command modules is to make some that are more friendly for landers. Of course, now you've gone and added one more thing for me to play around with instead of actually accomplishing something

[NeoAcario]

Of course, now you've gone and added one more thing for me to play around with instead of actually accomplishing something

Stop messing around, Talisar! I want my 7.5m to 1.25m dock and 15m to 2.5m dock Toroidal tanks!!

~Steve

[Frederf]

Are there modular fuel configs for the v2 of these? I've never used any S.F.T. except in the MFS mode.

[a__gun]

Tonight I'll try my hand at making some textures for you ok?

How did this go...? I for one would still love for someone to have a go at making stock-a-like textures for this

[NeoAcario]

How did this go...? I for one would still love for someone to have a go at making stock-a-like textures for this

Same. I'd love it! As it sits right now.. everything is just too... grey.

~Steve

[Commander Zoom]

Neat pod concept, sojourner. I hope to see it in game soon.

And I'm glad to see this mod still going strong.

[Commander Gizmo]

Same. I'd love it! As it sits right now.. everything is just too... grey.

~Steve

Agreed. In fact, I've held off on updating this mod solely because I like the old textures better. If someone would texture them well, I'd upgrade right away. I'd love to see the old yellow and black caution tape still on them.

[Talisar]

Agreed. In fact, I've held off on updating this mod solely because I like the old textures better. If someone would texture them well, I'd upgrade right away. I'd love to see the old yellow and black caution tape still on them.

I'm trying to improve my texturing, and looking for a little feedback. Is this a start on what you are looking for?

Obviously it needs a little more detail, and possibly shifting the base color from the gray to a more smooth, maybe lighter color as well?

Edited October 12, 2013 by Talisar
New Pic, More Detail

[NeoAcario]

I'm trying to improve my texturing, and looking for a little feedback. Is this a start on what you are looking for?

*snip*

Obviously it needs a little more detail, and possibly shifting the base color from the gray to a more smooth, maybe lighter color as well?

That's an awesome start, Talisar!

I have 2 notes for you.

1> People like mods that look stock. So if you can match the same base colors it would improve aesthetics and the parts would blend better

2> On the same note, please take a second pass on the colors. For some reason a couple of the bands don't appear to be the same color. ie the Kethane green stripe looks bright for some reason. This may be because it's on a darker backround?

3> Got those wider variety of toroidals coming along? ^.^

You're moving in the right direction!

Keep it up

~Steve