Sharing information with Alien Civilizations.

[Select Few]

So I found this article on Wikipedia, and it got me thinking:

What kind of information storage systems would other civilizations use?

Would it be compatible with ours? Or, assuming they came across any of our technology, would they assume that it was just an object, devoid of any information? Would the same be true if we found some of theirs?

And things like that.

What are your thoughts on the matter, KSP Science forum?

[Sof]

Even similar formats are incompatible sometimes.

Their storage systems would depend on their level of technology. Certain storage devices today only work if they have power. Without it, they would be nothing more than plastic bricks. If aliens stumbled upon an ancient ipod, they may never know what it was used for.

Voyagers golden record probably wouldn't be seen as much more than a circle to primitive humans. However, advanced civilizations should be able to deduce its purpose if they are anything like us.

[Jokurr]

I think if the aliens who may find it are intelligent enough to get into space they will be intelligent enough to figure out that it is not devoid of information. They may or may not struggle with finding a way to read it, but I think they will realize there is something there.

[Holo]

If you want to communicate with an alien intelligence properly, you could do something like this:

☀â˜Â☀☂☀☀

☀☀â˜Â☀☂☀☀☀

☀☀â˜Â☀☀☂☀☀☀☀

☀☀☀â˜Â☀☀☂☀☀☀☀☀

☀☀☀â˜Â☀☀☀☂☀☀☀☀☀☀

☀☀☃☀☂☀

☀☀☀☃☀☂☀☀

☀☀☀☃☀☀☂☀

☀☀☀☀☃☀☀☂☀☀

☀☀☀☀☃☀☀☀☂☀

And so on. Start simple and work your way up (and to simulate alien intelligences, see if you can interpret it). Random symbols were used, they could represent frequencies of electromagnetic radiation or binary written on spacecrafts, it doesn't matter.

[The Stinger]

I like the notion of communicating through the chemical elements, as portrayed in a Stargate episode.

Cause if it's an intelligent race it would know what chemical elements are.

[Holo]

Good idea. Of course, first you have to make up a word for "proton", and a word for "atom".

[vincespeedmk2]

A way to grab their attention would be to use maths. Numbers are universal, so any spacefaring intelligence should recognise 1,3,5,7 and 9 as being the first prime numbers and understand that there is something up. And if you really want to show off you could always go with "pi". They would recognise this as the ratio between their home world's equatorial diameter and its circumference.

[ShachonianX]

A way to grab their attention would be to use maths. Numbers are universal, so any spacefaring intelligence should recognise 1,3,5,7 and 9 as being the first prime numbers and understand that there is something up. And if you really want to show off you could always go with "pi". They would recognise this as the ratio between their home world's equatorial diameter and its circumference.

Their number symbols would probably be WAY different from ours. Also, they might not even have the same symbol for Pi. Therefore, they wouldn't understand these. The only way to be able to come up with translations for their language (or languages) to ours and our languages to theirs. To actually start off, we could communicate with them through pictures.

[Brabbit1987]

A way to grab their attention would be to use maths. Numbers are universal, so any spacefaring intelligence should recognise 1,3,5,7 and 9 as being the first prime numbers and understand that there is something up. And if you really want to show off you could always go with "pi". They would recognise this as the ratio between their home world's equatorial diameter and its circumference.

I am just curious. How would they actually recognize the numbers? I can't imagine our numbers would even remotely look the same. You would need to find some other way to communicate numbers that is more universal that any species can understand. The only way I currently know how to do that is through something like morse code with sounds or maybe light. While at the same time using our number symbols till they understand it's our number system. Which wouldn't take that long as our numbers repeat. Once you know 1 - 10 and start to see the pattern repeat 100, 1000, 10000, ect, you should at that point be able to easily learn the entire math system of our planet. Symbols such as +, /, -, =, ect will automatically be recognized by the answers.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Brabbit1987

[Holo]

Their number symbols would probably be WAY different from ours. Also, they might not even have the same symbol for Pi. Therefore, they wouldn't understand these. The only way to be able to come up with translations for their language (or languages) to ours and our languages to theirs. To actually start off, we could communicate with them through pictures.

You'd need to invent a universal language between you and the aliens. You might be able to establish numbers by drawing 1 dot, then the symbol 1, two dots, and the symbol 2, and so on. You then suggest to the alien that they should do the same.

If you can't communicate back to he alien, for example on the plaque, just give symbols up to about 50 and hope they can work from there.

[Brabbit1987]

You'd need to invent a universal language between you and the aliens. You might be able to establish numbers by drawing 1 dot, then the symbol 1, two dots, and the symbol 2, and so on. You then suggest to the alien that they should do the same.

If you can't communicate back to he alien, for example on the plaque, just give symbols up to about 50 and hope they can work from there.

Dots would work as well. Again through this method I am sure any intelligent race could learn each others number systems in less then a day.

[vincespeedmk2]

I am just curious. How would they actually recognize the numbers? I can't imagine our numbers would even remotely look the same. You would need to find some other way to communicate numbers that is more universal that any species can understand. The only way I currently know how to do that is through something like morse code with sounds or maybe light.

The beauty of maths and number is that the symbols are arbitrary. You could literally use what ever you wanted. For example. Not everyone would know what the symbol "5" meant, but no matter what language you speak, "o o o o o" still represents 5 dots. And by extension, "o o o" "O" "o o o o" "o o" would (after some deliberation) still be the ratio between diameter and circumference. And if space is full of one thing, its circles.

[ShachonianX]

You'd need to invent a universal language between you and the aliens. You might be able to establish numbers by drawing 1 dot, then the symbol 1, two dots, and the symbol 2, and so on. You then suggest to the alien that they should do the same.

If you can't communicate back to he alien, for example on the plaque, just give symbols up to about 50 and hope they can work from there.

That could work. Now, how to translate languages? Show a word and show an image for the word. Then the aliens show their word for that image.

[Brabbit1987]

The beauty of maths and number is that the symbols are arbitrary. You could literally use what ever you wanted. For example. Not everyone would know what the symbol "5" meant, but no matter what language you speak, "o o o o o" still represents 5 dots. And by extension, "o o o" "O" "o o o o" "o o" would (after some deliberation) still be the ratio between diameter and circumference. And if space is full of one thing, its circles.

Right, I already figured that out thanks. I was asking you because you didn't explain that, which you really should have in your first post.

[Brenok]

And by extension, "o o o" "O" "o o o o" "o o" would (after some deliberation) still be the ratio between diameter and circumference.

Where are you getting this ratio from?

[Raticon]

The problem i had when looking at pictures of the golden record was that i couldn't for the life of myself figure out what half of the symbols on it meant. Of course i had the instructions in a separate image next to it but still, i thought that if a human being of average intelligence can't understand the symbols, who thinks an alien of average intelligence would?

I assume that any possible aliens wouldn't speak any of our languages or even define the pictures they look at the same way as us, but why not just a big arrow pointing towards the "play" button ?

[mrxak]

The problem with images is alien beings will not have the same visible spectrum for their vision, if they even have eyes at all. They could use echolocation for all we know. Speaking of hearing, they might have a very different frequency range of hearing, too.

[Brabbit1987]

The problem with images is alien beings will not have the same visible spectrum for their vision, if they even have eyes at all. They could use echolocation for all we know. Speaking of hearing, they might have a very different frequency range of hearing, too.

That is a very good point, however I am pretty sure we would be able to do something about that in most cases. Converting sound frequencies isn't to hard of a task as an example.

[nyrath]

The problem with images is alien beings will not have the same visible spectrum for their vision, if they even have eyes at all. They could use echolocation for all we know. Speaking of hearing, they might have a very different frequency range of hearing, too.

And what if they communicate by emitting a series of scents, or varying magnetic fields, or the motion of patterns of fur.

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/futurelang.php#id--Alien_Language--Alien_Pidgin

To communicate with an alien species, you need some sort of Pidgin English. Not the language you use, but instead some vastly simplified common language. It will be based on anticryptography, not cryptography, making a code that is easy to break.

Edited May 25, 2013 by nyrath

[falofonos]

Pottery and carved rock seem to be the only things which last for more than 1000 years odd.

There are some recording media which have lasted longer but the data is usually degraded or untranslatable and that's records from our own species.

[Credible Hulk]

We already deal with things stranger than life on Earth, software. The programs made by genetic algorithms don't use anything resembling common sense to us but they get the job done. If something grabs a voyager disc intact they're doing it in interstellar space. If they can match the trajectory of a random object there then they aren't on a generation ship and are way more advanced. Even if the aliens themselves can't translate the message their tech should be able to, regardless of how the information is coded or what medium the original communication used.

We aren't the ones trying to communicate with morons using crop circles and cattle mutilations. If we're constantly coming up with new ways to extract information from signal noise why can't they? As for the "average" alien doing the translation maybe it would just scan the disc and crowdsource it to the gww.

Just my two cents.

[comicbstudeo]

well. obviously they have USB. because USB just happens wherever in the universe you are

[Brenok]

Of course. It's called Universal Serial Bus for a motive.

[ZedNova]

I imagine this is how it will first go down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4plJ8ZJ3ok

[Holo]

I imagine this is how it will first go down.

I hope it doesn't go down like that, because the ending saddens me