Let's Not.

[MR4Y]

We could say that the problem also relies on people not knowing to "agree to disagree" mostly.

[Sputnik-1]

Guys, you are starting on the path of development discussion again. Posts have been removed

But this thread is about community and development simultaneously. More specific, the community's undoubtful effect on the development.

[MR4Y]

But this thread is about community and development simultaneously. More specific, the community's undoubtful effect on the development.

And, since this is an alpha game, this will innevitably entertwine with development as well.

[KasperVld]

And, since this is an alpha game, this will innevitably entertwine with development as well.

I'd rather you not touch that subject again though. The thread will derail as has been demonstrated earlier tonight. If you want to make a development thread with constructive criticism be my guest

[Brabbit1987]

We could say that the problem also relies on people not knowing to "agree to disagree" mostly.

Yes, but a good example would be, I have this great great game idea. I decide to one day pitch this idea to my friends. All them say the idea sucks. I get all huffy and puffy and say they are wrong. Which I would be able to rightly do so. I then decide to pitch the idea to a dev, and get a similar response. Again I huff and puff out the door and say they don't have any idea what they are talking about. This can keep going on and on over and over again. When do you just simply decide to give up and accept .. maybe the idea is actually bad?

Sometimes you can't see things as others do, and that is why it's good to get others opinions and take them as needed. It doesn't mean you are wrong, but it means it doesn't matter. Wrong or right, no one agrees, so what is the point?

[MR4Y]

Yes, but a good example would be, I have this great great game idea. I decide to one day pitch this idea to my friends. All them say the idea sucks. I get all huffy and puffy and say they are wrong. Which I would be able to rightly do so. I then decide to pitch the idea to a dev, and get a similar response. Again I huff and puff out the door and say they don't have any idea what they are talking about. This can keep going on and on over and over again. When do you just simply decide to give up and accept .. maybe the idea is actually bad?

Sometimes you can't see things as others do, and that is why it's good to get others opinions and take them as needed. It doesn't mean you are wrong, but it means it doesn't matter. Wrong or right, no one agrees, so what is the point?

"If 50 million people say a foolish thing, still is a foolish thing."

[whatisthisidonteven]

I'd rather you not touch that subject again though. The thread will derail as has been demonstrated earlier tonight. If you want to make a development thread with constructive criticism be my guest

I think that development is on topic considering how development and community are closely related in this game. There's nothing wrong with touching on the subject.

[Eric S]

I have to agree with Ampsterman that people should've expected bugs when they bought a game that is in development. It is in development for a reason because if it were working perfectly we'd be releasing by now.

I've seen a lot more people that don't understand that since KSP turned up on Steam. I don't blame the Steam community, however. Basically, when KSP was just on KerbalSpaceProgram.com, it was hard to arrive there and not realize that the game was still in development, and while you were buying the released program, you were being given access to the game while it is still in development. And most people understood what that meant. Not everyone, but most seemed to get it.

On steam, however, it's more in the presence of finished games, so not everyone is noticing the category it's in or the details, so they think they're getting a game that is either finished or nearly finished. If nothing else, it's higher profile now, so even if the same percentage of people don't get it, there's more people that don't get it just because there's more people.

With the 0.20 release, there were bugs. There have been bugs in every release, though this time it feels buggier than usual, mostly because of the nature of the changes that came. Very few parts and features, it's more the game infrastructure that changed, and your average game player isn't as likely to notice that as they are new things to do, so it seems like we got almost nothing, but that almost nothing brought a lot of bugs. Some people saw it that way, some went farther to say that the testers fell down on the job because the devs never should have released this version with all these bugs. On the other hand, there's also people that aren't being severely affected by these problems wondering what all the fuss was about. You can't judge how many people are in each camp based on the forums. As a WoW dev once put it, judging the health of the game by the forums is like judging the health of the nation by the health of the people in the hospital.

As people on the forums started reporting issues with the 0.20 release, there were people who were upset and angry that the devs had let them down, and some of those people were quite vocal about it. There were people that were happy with what they got. And there were people who were disappointed, but trying to figure out what the problem was. The impression I had was that there were more in the first group than the third, but that could easily be that the third was going about it quietly while not everyone in the first group was. I still gave what advice I could to anyone that wasn't just raging. It's a game, the point is to have fun.

When reading some raging post, though, I have to admit that I at least think "It's an alpha. If you want a polished, mostly-bug-free experience, find something else to play until this game is released, or at least into late beta." Not out of hostility, but out of honesty. It's a game and you should be having fun.

For the record, I've seen all of one bug that a dev said shouldn't be fixed, and that was as a joke because they found it fun abusing the bug. If I remember correctly, it was the youtube video about a kerbal stuck in an odd position but still moving, set to music from "Saturday Night Fever." I've heard a lot of things that people say the devs have said, but lets be honest, that kind of stuff gets taken out of context or misremembered so much that I always take it with a grain of salt. Sort of like one of the conspiracy theory videos I watched on youtube. Fully half of their "evidence" consisted of quotes out of context, not really meaning what they wanted it to say.

We're all here because we enjoy the game, and many of us are quite passionate about it. I don't think anyone here wants the game to be bad.

[Tempest228]

Guys, you are starting on the path of development discussion again. Posts have been removed

Explain to me why the need for the separation of development and community discussion? In a game in alpha such as this, usually the community and development are very closely related.

[KasperVld]

Okay people. I've tried, I've tried hard but this just won't do. I'm locking the thread. I suggest you make two new threads with a more informative and argumented title & opening post: one for the community discussion and one for the development discussion (which should ofcourse be placed in the KSP Development forum).