KSP has the best community I've ever seen. Let's keep it that way.

[Sputnik-1]

Am I the only one that's confused as to where all this negativity came from? Like the "Lets Not" thread, what on earth set that off in the OP's mind?

Everything I've seen so far on the forums has been consistently positive. I haven't seen the community arguing with devs about any major or even minor features, just some complaints about bugs that go further than the posting of a bug report. And I haven't seen people bashing on noobies. I just dont get it.

That's the problem. Everytihng HAS been positive. Anything "negative" is disregarded.

I invoke internet rules 13 ("Anything you say can be turned into something else- fixed") and 8 ("there are no real rules about posting").

I dislike how reactionary this community is. The people here are literally rocket scientists but a stupid troll post gets 15 pages of responses and two/ three offshoot threads slyly or sometimes not-so-slyly referencing the main thread.

That being said, elitism is a factor in all games, and it isn't really that bad in the KSP Community. There's never a really huge influx of annoying noobs after a publicity boost, and we're lucky to have people nice enough to greet them and answer their questions.

So you're disregarding "Let's Not" as a "troll post?"

That makes a lot of sense, since there are valid criticism and worries.

[rodion_herrera]

I'm fairly new here, and from what I have observed, the forum vets (well I assume they are vets based on the date they created their forum accounts, and if they have those "Been here before the great Forum crash of April 2013") are all quite okay people. I think there are only a few specific individuals who behave in a manner that most people will probably think or describe as "arrogant" and in every community there are such individuals, but fortunately they don't constitute the minority. In my stay here so far, I am enjoying it. It's just a matter of attitude I guess.

[MR4Y]

That's the problem. Everytihng HAS been positive. Anything "negative" is disregarded.

So you're disregarding "Let's Not" as a "troll post?"

That makes a lot of sense, since there are valid criticism and worries.

And that's what we call being a White Knight.

[KerbActual]

lol'ed at the thread order:

"KSP has the best community. Let's keep it that way!"

"Let's Not."

But yeah, there seems to be a split in the community, to say the least. I think we could all do better by voicing our opinions, but at the same time being careful not to be hostile about them. Plus, in my experience, "complainy" threads don't seem to help the spirit of the community. Something like:, "The minecraft community sucks, and this community will suck if it heads that way." Could be rephrased to: "Concern for the KSP community"

People have opinions. That's cool. What's not cool is people being rude. It's perfectly fine to voice any opinion, so long as it's not voiced in a rude way. Nothing excuses people from being rude.

Personally, this isn't the best, nor worse, community I've been around. While it's not bad, I think it could be better.

[Sputnik-1]

And that's what we call being a White Knight.

How is this white knighting? Explain, please.

Or are you informing me that the fellows I responded to are white knights?

Edited May 29, 2013 by Sputnik-1

[MR4Y]

How is this white knighting? Explain, please.

Or are you informing me that the fellows I responded to are white knights?

The latter.

[air805ronin]

I personally don't see what other word could be used in this case. I'm not talking about different points of view. I'm talking about people that shield SQUAD and don't want to see the problems, while also using the same old excuses ("It's an alpha" for example) to keep people from voicing their opinion, even getting the support of moderators in that quest.

A positive thread will have the equal amount of negative threads and even people shielding might have negative opinions, but have the fanboy goggles stuck too firmly.

I really fail to see how someone can be shielded in a thread of text. The negative opinions are there for all to see. Its not like one post cancels the other out. Having been creative before in my life, I have found that the negative always outweighs the positive in your concern because it tells you what needs work. Or the perceived belief.

I think that too much stock is being put into what other forum members are saying versus reaction from mods or devs. Case in point, instead of locking a thread when it got out of hand permanently, Sal locked it and cleaned up the offending posts and reopened the thread. A mod finds value in the discussion in that thread and is keeping it going.

Somehow that thread has gone past 10 pages without calling the mods fascists, so that helps.

[MR4Y]

I really fail to see how someone can be shielded in a thread of text. The negative opinions are there for all to see. Its not like one post cancels the other out. Having been creative before in my life, I have found that the negative always outweighs the positive in your concern because it tells you what needs work. Or the perceived belief.

I think that too much stock is being put into what other forum members are saying versus reaction from mods or devs. Case in point, instead of locking a thread when it got out of hand permanently, Sal locked it and cleaned up the offending posts and reopened the thread. A mod finds value in the discussion in that thread and is keeping it going.

Somehow that thread has gone past 10 pages without calling the mods fascists, so that helps.

Yeah, but you have to remind yourself that a mod is not a dev. We're trying to make devs pay attention to what we have to say.

[Wabur]

Somehow that thread has gone past 10 pages without calling the mods fascists, so that helps.

And yet this one didn't, without any mod activity AFAIK.

[air805ronin]

Yeah, but you have to remind yourself that a mod is not a dev. We're trying to make devs pay attention to what we have to say.

I think that even if an official dev doesn't post in a thread, it doesn't mean they don't read them. I would bet even money some of the dev's have peeked through the pages of "Let's Not."

And yet this one didn't, without any mod activity AFAIK.

Sorry about that, hard to make a point without being able to state it. It did close a couple of the .20 launch threads.

[Rage097]

I do not believe that there is an issue concerning the old-timers thinking themselves above the newbies. I joined this forum not very long ago and was treated like i've been here since the beginning of time. Then again, I live in the Off-Topic forum, things may be different there.

[MR4Y]

I think that even if an official dev doesn't post in a thread, it doesn't mean they don't read them. I would bet even money some of the dev's have peeked through the pages of "Let's Not."

Sorry about that, hard to make a point without being able to state it. It did close a couple of the .20 launch threads.

Reading is not the same as taking in consideration. I might agree with that old thread of forum users getting alienated since the devs stopped interacting with the community by moving their updates to blogs,reddit, etc.

[rodion_herrera]

I also don't think the old timers are feeling "above" the newbies. If my guess is correct some (or maybe even most) of the vets here are from the Orbiter community (http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk and http://orbiter-forum.com/) because HarvesteR himself is a member of that community, and I can even find for you the very first posts he made in that community, inviting Orbiter users to try out KSP. And I've been a part of that community since 2002, and they (again except for a few specific individuals) are a good bunch of people.

[paleorob]

Hell, 4chan is one of the largest communities on the internet and look what you can get away with there. I once dropped an f-bomb on this forum (that automatically got censored to '****ing') and someone went out of their way to complain to me about 'ruining the community'.

I think using 4chan, den of trolls, as a highpoint of internet communities is...odd...to say the least.

This group of folks is alright. Some outright belligerent folks, some calm. Some folks use incendiary language (and don't understand why they get pushback) while others don't state things as clear and forthright as they should. Just like IRL there are a mix of people here.

Best communities I've been part of online? Hands down hikearizona.com and the Farmall Cub forums. Never the nastiness that I have seen on here (let alone what is seen on Reddit or 4chan). I don't know if it is because there are other factors tying these groups together (significant time, money, effort, and sweat) whereas this is a single-player sandbox game in development but most of the bickering here isn't found there.

Not planning on leaving here any time soon though. The game is too cool for me to get worried about other peoples' opinions on it!

[lobsterbark]

This community used to be awesome, but then stuff happened and everyone got mad at one another, and now people complaining about people who complain about stupid people, and everything exploded.

[Rage097]

This community used to be awesome, but then stuff happened and everyone got mad at one another, and now people complaining about people who complain about stupid people, and everything exploded.

Well said brother, well said. *no longer takes the issue seriously*

[Specialist290]

Really, I just want the arguing to stop.

If people are voicing their concerns in a civil manner, that's fine.

If other people are rebutting those concerns with reasonable and well-thought-out arguments, that's also fine.

When name-calling, personal attacks, and blind accusations of favoritism among the moderation staff come out, that's not fine.

[Rage097]

Really, I just want the arguing to stop.

If people are voicing their concerns in a civil manner, that's fine.

If other people are rebutting those concerns with reasonable and well-thought-out arguments, that's also fine.

When name-calling, personal attacks, and blind accusations of favoritism among the moderation staff come out, that's not fine.

You are a bright man. Thank you for pointing this out.

[Kerbol Prime]

As long as the new people feel welcomed and not obliged to leave and give up on KSP then its fine. We want more players, so why not give a helping hand. Otherwise don't say anything at all. If you havn't got something nice to say don't say anything. But I think the community is fine pretty much, not seeing a lot of problems.

[Rage097]

As long as the new people feel welcomed and not obliged to leave and give up on KSP then its fine. We want more players, so why not give a helping hand. Otherwise don't say anything at all. If you havn't got something nice to say don't say anything. But I think the community is fine pretty much, not seeing a lot of problems.

The community is exemplary! I've never felt so at home in my life! Sure a few people that are hard to get along with here and there, but hey, its the internet.

[Piv]

I don't say it without a reason. I had concern because lately I have been seeing people posting threads about youtubers promoting the game with a rather what people call "stupid and bratty" (emphasis on "") fan base. I just wanted to share my opinion. That's all, nothing else, no reason to start unneeded arguments on this simple thread.

[Rage097]

I don't say it without a reason. I had concern because lately I have been seeing people posting threads about youtubers promoting the game with a rather what people call "stupid and bratty" (emphasis on "") fan base. I just wanted to share my opinion. That's all, nothing else, no reason to start unneeded arguments on this simple thread.

I will agree that the population that is YouTube tend to be "bratty" indeed. Seriously, just reading YouTube comments is clinicly depressing.

[ArchiieGreypaw]

I agree with everyone when I say that KSP is the best friendly community out there. Better than Minecraft, especially ROBLOX, and even a lot of these COD clans out here when all you hear are squeakers; and I don't even play COD anymore!

[FlamedSteak]

I'm a newb who comes from some pretty unforgiving communities so maybe I expect a bit less, but I say this one is really quite lovely.

The thing that is great about this game is that people love to talk about what they're doing, and most people love to listen and get ideas from what other people are doing.

Also the "I made it the Mun" threads are pretty great, because you remember how difficult a task that seemed the first time you did it.

[Rage097]

That's the glory of sandbox games like these. No one can say: "im bettur den u" because you can respond: "no, you just have a different design."