I'm bored. Let's plan a manned Venus landing.

[nhnifong]

Well if an American doesn't stamp his boot print on the dirt it doesn't count!

But realistically, what kind of ground transport would work best there? I rather like the idea of a hovercraft, but with that air density you might just be able to make a neutrally buoyant "lander" that never touches down, but just descends close enough to the surface to collect samples.

I think a wheeled or tracked rover might not be the best idea for venus.

[Kryten]

Neutral buoyancy will be difficult. As thick as the atmosphere is, it's still only about 6% as dense as water.

[MBobrik]

Neutral buoyancy will be difficult. As thick as the atmosphere is, it's still only about 6% as dense as water.

Using helium, each m3 of volume will produce 57 kg of lift, so you can float with a very small balloon or floater ( not sure whether something built from something like titanium sheets can be described as a balloon )

[Tarrow]

No worries MBobrik, I've misplaced a 0 plenty of times myself Cooling's the issue for sure but all any of it'll take is some creative thinking.

A 2500m3 bubble of air enclosed in a 1cm titanium shell (would give a mass of about 40 tonnes I think, and a near 19m diameter) would generate a hilarious amount of lift, if it could withstand the pressure. It'd be like flying a bathysphere zepplin with a 100 tonne cargo capacity. It'd need ballast tanks Daft as it sounds it does bring one thing to mind - habitat design is going to have to take into account that human-habitable structures of any significant volume are going to be bouyant to some extent. Something the size and weight of a shipping container could conceivably float away.

[Kerbal01]

My Idea:

You could have a mothership( with all the previously discussed features) in Venusian orbit, that would drop a lifting body (plated in aluminum oxide) glide down to the surface and then use a SABRE to get back up to the mothership (would a SABRE would work in Venusian atmosphere?) the mothership would then use NTR's to get back to Earth.

[falofonos]

http://earthsky.org/science-wire/the-fast-winds-of-venus-are-getting-faster

Could be a cyclic thing, could be something else. Either way, it makes predicting the atmospheric conditions tricky.

[catmando]

not bad thoughts.. what'er going to do about power? a small nuke plant maybe? solar cells wouldnt work on the surface of venus with hyper wind storms slinging around corrosive particles....

[Tankbuster32]

How about a kie with turbines attached to it and held by a thick fibreglass cable above the worst of the atmosphere, this would ensure a clean and reliable power source. The balloon lander-thingy seems interesting though...

[Horn Brain]

Realistically, it's much easier to just put humans in LVO and send a robotic mission to the surface with remote controls to find some samples for return. The only reason we want to put people on Mars is because we want to eventually live there, same with the Moon, potentially. No one wants to live on the surface of Venus in the remotely near future.

If that's what we're doing, then I would opt for the bathysphere architecture. Build a rigid but light structure that is buoyant and just float down to the surface, using small thrusters (probably ducted fans to save propellant) for maneuvering, you could scan a reasonably large stretch of surface before you had to turn back, and potentially scoop up/drill up a sizeable sample cache. When it's time to go back, use the buoyancy to climb as high as possible, then deploy an inflatable balloon to climb even higher. Once the balloon reaches a suitable height, deploy the ascent stage with the sample cache as the sole cargo. The crew vehicle can then capture the cache and return home.

I'd shape the landing legs of the bathysphere like the soles of boots so we leave bootprints too.

[The Jedi Master]

Wow, I thought this was dead. These are all good ideas, keep it coming!

[magnemoe]

Larry Niven did one with this, he used an balloon probe, second stage was an nuclear ramjet, atmosphere is pushed into the intakes then its heated in an reactor and pushed out back like on an nerva nuclear rocket. Yes it generate a lot of radioactivity but nobody on Venus will complain, the corrosive atmosphere would also break it down fast however you would only run it for some minutes. Upper stage is an nerva engine.

Eve is simpler, no need for nuclear engines. This is for an unmanned Eve sample return mission. The propel is to move the blimp around so I can sample both rock and liquid.

However I did use one LV-N to get out of Jool atmosphere.

Edited July 19, 2013 by magnemoe

[Creeperchair]

A rocket made of diamonds? That sounds truly outrageous.

Don't mention that around Jeb.

[Skyler4856]

A blimp working in tandem with a manned sky-crane; that should allow for us to develop reasonable abort capability..

[Creeperchair]

What if the H

2

SO

4

from the clouds was captured by an atmospheric intake, and converted to fuel and oxidizer? Also, what about thermocouples?

[Dispatcher]

This thread was dead for a while, anyway. I recommend that anyone really interested in the OP should get a copy of Ben Bova's "Venus" and read it.

[_Augustus_]

But why land there in the first place? This is like a manned mission to acid vulcano; Venus is much less hospitable than Mars without any of its advantages, so I doubt that anything alive will ever land there.

http://youtu.be/qRGTk0KQhf4

Well, let's think about that more, shall we?

1. Venus already has a substantial atmosphere.

2. Venus is almost earth-size/mass/gravity.

3. Venus is further from the edges of the habitable zone than Mars.

4. Venus has tectonic movement.

5. Venus has about as much water as Mars, and neither of them have magnetic fields.

[Kryten]

Venus has no or very little water and no tectonic activity. But aside from that, the 'substantial' atmosphere is the issue in itself-it's a bit too substantial.

[musicpenguin]

Kinda off topic, But would it be possible for EXTREMELY acid resistant microbes to exist on venus? Also would it be possible for floating microbes to live in the atmosphere?

[megatiger78]

surface landwer will contain justin beiber,and he will be dumped out of it without spacesuit in order to studd the effects

[Rakaydos]

A human habitable batheosphere large enough to be neutrally buoyant up to the 50 KM level- then weighed down with science and heat management systems (all ejectable as ballast) to be neutrally buoyant at the 0 KM level.

Abort would be to dump the ballast and return to the more survivable 50 KM level, rendevous with an atmospheric ascent stage (baloon-lifted thermal turbojet with a circularizing NERVA), which would rendevous with the earth return stage in orbit. (which may double as a beamed-power saterlite for the duration of the visit)

[_Augustus_]

Kinda off topic, But would it be possible for EXTREMELY acid resistant microbes to exist on venus? Also would it be possible for floating microbes to live in the atmosphere?

Yes. Carl Sagan suggested terraforming Venus with acid-resistant bacteria that would eat the carbon dioxide and turn it into oxygen and graphite.

[megatiger78]

Yes. Carl Sagan suggested terraforming Venus with acid-resistant bacteria that would eat the carbon dioxide and turn it into oxygen and graphite.

so we use justin beiber as a source for these microbes. as In we turn him into a few million of them

[dbmorpher]

Zeppelins that float on breathable air.

Modules with teflon hulls

No pressure difference

31 mi temperature of Mediterranean

Plants take in carbon dioxide

create sugar

sugar + H2SO4 = Oxygen and water and graphite

[Kryten]

Where's the water supposed to come from?

[Rakaydos]

Where's the water supposed to come from?

Hydrogen from breaking down the acid, oxygen from breaking down the Co2.