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[0.90] Magic Smoke Industries Infernal Robotics - 0.19.3

sirkut

By sirkut
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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allmhuran

allmhuran

Posted
Posted (edited)

Another question from me (this might be a bug...)

In trying to build my robot, the greatest difficulty by far has been with trying to figure out which way is which with the IR parts... does move+ increase the value or decrease it? Does it depend on the orientation when placed? What about the parts attached with symmetry? And so on.

I have been struggling with this for HOURS and I just found out what's causing my biggest headache. Let's take the feet as an example.

In the SPH I have the feet placed with symmetry. I have rotated them so the left foot is at a position of 90, and the right foot is at a position of -90.

If I use the position editor to change the right foot to, say, 35, then the foot rotates to point the front toes up a little bit. If I use the position editor to change the left foot to -35, its front toes also point up. This is good, this is what I want, because it means I can set the "walking" position presets for both feet to the same values, and then just take the negative of the right for the left. Great.

BUT when I go into the game the values are different! Left-foot-toes-up is 35, but right-foot-toes-up is -145!! The direction of the rotation values is reversed between the SPH and the game, but only for one side.

"Invert axis" doesn't seem to fix this, it just turns move+ into move- and vice versa. It doesn't change the direction of the position values.

What's the solution? How do I have the symmetrical parts behave in the game the same way they behave in the VAB? If I have to switch to the new prerelease version to fix it I will have to redo aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall of my work in KOS setting up positions and speeds and so on (a LOT of work), so a solution in the current version would be nice...

Here's a screenshot to help visualize the problem (plz excuse mis-labelleing of left and right in the SPH, forgot which way the camera was facing XD):

hk7Hpr9.png

Edited by allmhuran
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Ziw

Ziw

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"Invert axis" doesn't seem to fix this, it just turns move+ into move- and vice versa. It doesn't change the direction of the position values.

http://i.imgur.com/hk7Hpr9.png

Can you try this on pre-release version? If the behavior is the same, we'll look into it.

On default movement direction: usually rotation for Move+ is clockwise, but if part is placed in Mirror symmetry (in SPH it is on by default) - your symmetry counterpart starting position will be mirrored, so you'll have to invert axis to make them move in the same direction.

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allmhuran

allmhuran

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Clockwise looking from which angle? :)

If I use an action group and set both ankles to "move+" then hitting that action group will keep the feet aligned with each other. If I set "invert axis" to on then the feet will move away from each other. So in that sense, invert axis does indeed work properly.

But the issue I'm having isn't with the direction of movement, it's with the value of the position when moved in a particular direction. If we look from the left hand side of the mech, then the following happens in the SPH when rotating clockwise (point front toes upwards):

Left ankle value goes from 90 to 35

Right ankle value also goes from -90 to -35

But after launching, "point toes up" results in different values:

Left ankle goes from from 90 to 35

Right ankle goes from -90 to -145

Edited by allmhuran
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Entropius

Entropius

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Posted
Have you tried pre-release version 0.20 of Infernal Robotics from Addon Development page? When you do, please make clean install and then add parts, to ensure all tweak scale configs are up to date

No I haven't.

I've googled around for it and checked the first-page of this thread, but I can't seem to find it. Do you have a link?

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Fell-x27

Fell-x27

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Sirkut, Hi!

What about piston-dock-dock-piston curse? It happens even if between one of pistons and docking port we have another part :(

Is that problem ever solvable?

Yes, I know about save/load after undocking as a fix.

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Entropius

Entropius

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Okay, so I got the pre-release of version 0.20 installed. And the gantry rail rescales fine (legacy part), but none of the other parts do (ZodiusInfuser rework parts, to be specific). They all go from max size to minimum size, with nothing in-between.

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ZodiusInfuser

ZodiusInfuser

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Hello everyone! Just to let you know, new versions of the IR Plugin and Model reworks are now live!

Plugin Rework:

Model Rework:

The team have collectively put a lot of effort into these so feedback would be appreciated :D

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Kanddak

Kanddak

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Current issues for me:

Parts' positions don't persist when picked up and moved in editor

"Invert Axis" toggle doesn't persist from editor to launchpad

Rotation limits don't persist from editor to launchpad

"Apply Symmetry" doesn't seem to do anything & nothing (positions, axis inversion) persists across part symmetry

Part movement in editor doesn't respect parts' speed settings & is therefore not useful to preview how parts will move relative to each other

Reset buttons set parts to their original orientations and not to the orientations I'd tried to set as their default

These might have been around before, but they've become really irritating due to the removal of the alternate versions of the pivotrons. I almost never place hinges in the closed orientation, so it now requires an enormous amount of fiddling to initialize things the way I want them and then keep them there while iterating on a design.

Edited by Kanddak
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sirkut

sirkut

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Parts resetting is inherent with the editor. I tried to keep position but it caused a lot of issues. When you pick up a part the base would go out of whack. It sucked.

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Maelin

Maelin

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Okay! I *think* I've installed everything correctly including the lovely new rework parts (oh my god IR+RW is so good now, seriously you guys), but now I've run into a problem with some of the rework parts that have a very wide range of motion - when setting the rotation limits, I don't have enough fine control. See here:

zcs5u9m.png?2

I'd like to set the maximum rotation to 0°, but if I click one pixel in the slider it sets it to -2.00°, and the next pixel sets it to +2.00°.

I recall there used to be a separate slider that adjusted the fine tune scale - from 0.1° at a time to 10° at a time. That seems to be gone now, though, and I can't figure out any other way to change the rotation limits.

Am I missing something?

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Cyst

Cyst

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Yes I have. I have checked if I had the latest version of everything, their compatibility/incompatibility with other mods. As far as my observation go, it's just...buggy. =/

The one-size-parts isn't much of a solution either.

Anyway, thank you.

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Ziw

Ziw

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Okay! I *think* I've installed everything correctly including the lovely new rework parts (oh my god IR+RW is so good now, seriously you guys), but now I've run into a problem with some of the rework parts that have a very wide range of motion - when setting the rotation limits, I don't have enough fine control. See here:

http://i.imgur.com/zcs5u9m.png?2

I'd like to set the maximum rotation to 0°, but if I click one pixel in the slider it sets it to -2.00°, and the next pixel sets it to +2.00°.

I recall there used to be a separate slider that adjusted the fine tune scale - from 0.1° at a time to 10° at a time. That seems to be gone now, though, and I can't figure out any other way to change the rotation limits.

Am I missing something?

It is best to do it in editor, you can type in range values if you go into advanced mode like this:

eLKGkPR.png

We are considering a better tweakable for limits, but for now you can try to get away with the solution above.

- - - Updated - - -

Current issues for me:

1)Parts' positions don't persist when picked up and moved in editor

2) "Invert Axis" toggle doesn't persist from editor to launchpad

3) Rotation limits don't persist from editor to launchpad

4) "Apply Symmetry" doesn't seem to do anything & nothing (positions, axis inversion) persists across part symmetry

5) Part movement in editor doesn't respect parts' speed settings & is therefore not useful to preview how parts will move relative to each other

6) Reset buttons set parts to their original orientations and not to the orientations I'd tried to set as their default

These might have been around before, but they've become really irritating due to the removal of the alternate versions of the pivotrons. I almost never place hinges in the closed orientation, so it now requires an enormous amount of fiddling to initialize things the way I want them and then keep them there while iterating on a design.

Thank you for your feedback, though it would be easier to find if you posted it in WIP thread.

Anyway - let me address all your issues:

1) As sirkut already said - it is the intended behavior and there is not much we can do

2) Confirmed, it is a bug, we'll fix it ASAP

3) Could not reproduce it with either set of parts (Legacy & Rework). Rotation limits are preserved. Are you using latest re-release from yesterday?

4) We're trying to find the root of this. It seems that as soon as you tweak any of the symmetry counterparts, KSP makes that counterpart a master, thus breaking our code. We'll continue looking.

Apply Symmetry is only for Presets, it does not do anything else.

5) It is the intended behavior, Editor is about precise positioning, all moving tests should be performed on the launchpad.

6) Reset buttons reset the parts to their CFG position, and it was the intended behavior. You can set a preset value you like in Preset Editor and move to this preset. We might consider making an option in Preset Editor to upgrade one preset value to Default Position, so your revert/reset buttons would move to it instead of 0 position.

Edited by Ziw
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ZodiusInfuser

ZodiusInfuser

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These might have been around before, but they've become really irritating due to the removal of the alternate versions of the pivotrons. I almost never place hinges in the closed orientation, so it now requires an enormous amount of fiddling to initialize things the way I want them and then keep them there while iterating on a design.

If enough people agree that this is an annoyance then I can re-add the open versions of the hinges. I removed them along with 3 others to reduce the number of parts in the mod since IR now has in-editor positioning (which it didn't when I started the mod).

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ZodiusInfuser

ZodiusInfuser

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ZodiusInfuser: I think part clutter is less of an issue with the filters introduced in 0.90.

I wasn't thinking of that. I was thinking more in terms of memory footprint. If I get more calls to add the parts back I will do.

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brusura

brusura

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I wasn't thinking of that. I was thinking more in terms of memory footprint. If I get more calls to add the parts back I will do.

I agree with you, memory is an issue for me, too many crashes.

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taniwha

taniwha

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Posted

ZodiusInfuser: those with memory issues can prune the parts themselves. Many of us sail past 4GB thumbing our noses at all the panes ;).

On a more helpful note: it is textures, not meshes, that consume the most memory, so a bit of texture sharing goes a long way. Also, with some careful design, meshes can be shared, too: have two models (or even one appropriately designed model) for the two halves of the hinge and use MODEL nodes to build the two actual parts.

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