[1.6] Davon Throttle Control systems mod [v088]

[PrivateFlip]

Updated (version 074):

-fixed bug occurring when using the SRB-KD25k. (Thanks to Skipperro for reporting it)

[brusura]

version 074 working in KSP 1.0 too so far

[PrivateFlip]

version 074 working in KSP 1.0 too so far

Thank you. I'm going to test it now; a bit worried about the joystick support with the changes squad mentioned in the notes.

[PrivateFlip]

Updated (version 076):

-compiled plugin against KSP 1.0 libraries.

-tested most functionality except for joystick support due to not having access to a joystick.

-fixed bug where plugin windows close when staging.

Edited May 3, 2015 by PrivateFlip

[Tontow]

This looks nice.

Is there a way I can set it to fire an engine at a certain thrust level so long as I press an hold a key down? A burst mode / throttle override mode.

Doing that would make it really easy for me to use large thrusters as RCS on my ships as the thruster would only fire so long as I held the key down.

And I could also bind it to my wasd keys to help me turn. Set main throttle to 90% and then set the corresponding thruster to fire at 100% when I press a wasd key; the thruster would then go back to 90% as soon as I released the key.

[samhuk]

There seems to be some bugs with the balance calculations in the current release.

DTC makes thrust balance worse in most situations where balance is already quite close, i.e. changing throttles of engines so craft is less balanced.

Could it be that it is not taking into account some extra masses/forces? Either way it isn't calculating the correct throttle levels to achieve good COM and COT alignments.

I have quite a few mods installed, could it be that one of the mods is borking COM and COT calculations?

Apologise for lack of screenshots, but I suppose you get the idea.

[pjschurr]

There seems to be some bugs with the balance calculations in the current release.

DTC makes thrust balance worse in most situations where balance is already quite close, i.e. changing throttles of engines so craft is less balanced.

I'll second that. I have MechJeb, ScanSat, & KER; just added DTC to try to control an oversized roving refinery. Seems to get farther off the closer the craft should be to balanced (at least according to the SPH).

[Oh, and Kerbal Alarm Clock. I always forget that's a mod, until I have to go looking for it.]

Edited July 1, 2015 by pjschurr
brain cloud

[PrivateFlip]

There seems to be some bugs with the balance calculations in the current release.

DTC makes thrust balance worse in most situations where balance is already quite close, i.e. changing throttles of engines so craft is less balanced.

Could it be that it is not taking into account some extra masses/forces? Either way it isn't calculating the correct throttle levels to achieve good COM and COT alignments.

I have quite a few mods installed, could it be that one of the mods is borking COM and COT calculations?

Apologise for lack of screenshots, but I suppose you get the idea.

I'll second that. I have MechJeb, ScanSat, & KER; just added DTC to try to control an oversized roving refinery. Seems to get farther off the closer the craft should be to balanced (at least according to the SPH).

[Oh, and Kerbal Alarm Clock. I always forget that's a mod, until I have to go looking for it.]

Thanks for reporting, I have done some testing, but results were fine so far. Could you send me a stock craft where things go wrong? The mod does not take into account drag, does the inaccuracy increase with speed?

[JeffreyCor]

When trying using a KSPI thermal nozzle on a DTC throttle and the standard lift engines on the stock throttle 0 the nozzle responded only to the stock throttle and not to any DTC throttles. Not sure if it is only an issue with KSPI thrust generators or others as well but wanted to let you know.

[Helmut_AUT]

Thanks for reporting, I have done some testing, but results were fine so far. Could you send me a stock craft where things go wrong? The mod does not take into account drag, does the inaccuracy increase with speed?

I could send you a stock "Space Shuttle" for which I use this awesome mod to control one main engine and one "tank engine" otherwise it keeps toppling over. Manually that works, automatically (Center of Thrust) it doesn't...

It might indeed be a drag problem as the situation becomes worse when the Shuttle turns into gravity (and exposes more surface to the airstream...)

[CommanderJohnKoenig]

Does anyone know if this currently works for version 1.0.4?

[JeffreyCor]

I'm getting mixed results. Balance seems to work but the additional throttles don't seem to be disconnecting from the main throttle when assigned.

[PrivateFlip]

I'm getting mixed results. Balance seems to work but the additional throttles don't seem to be disconnecting from the main throttle when assigned.

If the center thrust functionality is enabled for all engines the additional throttles don't give intermittent control. This is because if the thrust of the engines linked to the throttle moves above a point where it unbalances the thrust, the center thrust functionality will tone down the engine to keep it balanced. This is near instant so the thrust from these engines seems disconnected from the additional throttle and will instead move up and done with the other engines to keep balance. In the manual there is a section which explains how to only use some designated engines to center the thrust.

- - - Updated - - -

I could send you a stock "Space Shuttle" for which I use this awesome mod to control one main engine and one "tank engine" otherwise it keeps toppling over. Manually that works, automatically (Center of Thrust) it doesn't...

It might indeed be a drag problem as the situation becomes worse when the Shuttle turns into gravity (and exposes more surface to the airstream...)

Have been doing some more testing in 10.4 and to be honest, it isn't too bad for me.

If you send me the craft file I can take a closer look at what you're flying.

Edited August 2, 2015 by PrivateFlip

[PrivateFlip]

Updated (version 078):

-throttle steering functionality added. The center thrust mode has been enhanced with a throttle steering option. When this option is enabled the center thrust mode will offset the center of thrust based on control input. It will also be used by SAS to stabilize the craft.

The exact amount of torque supplied can be set. The resulting torque will linearly scale with the size of the input. This allows precise control control when used in combination with joystick. When used in combination with SAS this will result in a smooth and constant engine output.

The possible torque of throttle steering will in many cases be far greater than what can be supplied by other forms of control.

It can be used to give VTOL's enhanced maneuverability. When the torque is set sufficiently high it can be used in combination with SAS to balance the thrust in response to drag for unsymmetrical crafts. This is something which the center thrust functionality alone could not do and drag forces on unsymmetrical vessels are often to strong to compensate by conventional controls.

The throttle steering is an extension of the center thrust functionality and has the same limitations and configuration options.

[PrivateFlip]

Briefly played ksp and noticed some mayor issue with the latest release where engine cuts out completely on startup of Center thrust mode. I had no time to investigate and am now on vacation. Will look into this asap, but not before Wednesday this week.

Possible remedies for now, ( based on short time I had to evaluate the problem)

-Set the "direction" to backwards again (first set it to another value to allow setting it to backwards again). This might prevent the occurrence of the issue altogether.

-In the part menu of one engine set the something*Percentage*something on a value higher than zero. This undoes the complete shutdown after it occurs on engine activation and has the mode operate normally.

-Download an older version 076, as the problem could well be related to the changes in 077/078 versions.

Kerbalstuff does allow downloading older versions. Look under "changelog" on the mod page for the 076 download.

[PrivateFlip]

Reverted all downloads to the 076 version. Even the test rig I used to test the 077/078 versions does no longer work with those versions.

EDIT(23-aug-2015): bug has been found, will be releasing patched version shortly.

Edited August 23, 2015 by PrivateFlip

[JeffreyCor]

If the center thrust functionality is enabled for all engines the additional throttles don't give intermittent control. This is because if the thrust of the engines linked to the throttle moves above a point where it unbalances the thrust, the center thrust functionality will tone down the engine to keep it balanced. This is near instant so the thrust from these engines seems disconnected from the additional throttle and will instead move up and done with the other engines to keep balance. In the manual there is a section which explains how to only use some designated engines to center the thrust.

- - - Updated - - -

Have been doing some more testing in 10.4 and to be honest, it isn't too bad for me.

If you send me the craft file I can take a closer look at what you're flying.

That was way off from what I said, and how I used it in prior versions. To make the example more clear, ship has 5 engines, 1 in rear and 4 facing down. 4 facing down are set to main throttle (0) 1 in rear set to throttle 1. The 4 facing down provides lift and balance as expected, the 1 in the rear doesn't do anything when moving throttle 1 on the GUI. Hope that made it more clear

[PrivateFlip]

That was way off from what I said, and how I used it in prior versions. To make the example more clear, ship has 5 engines, 1 in rear and 4 facing down. 4 facing down are set to main throttle (0) 1 in rear set to throttle 1. The 4 facing down provides lift and balance as expected, the 1 in the rear doesn't do anything when moving throttle 1 on the GUI. Hope that made it more clear

Makes it more clear . Just to confirm have you set the Center thrust entry on the engine facing to the rear to "ignore", since it's not part of the engine on which center thrust should be active?

Roughly recreated the craft you described. GUI throttle does give me independent control over the engine, also in combination with center thrust.

[qm3ster]

How does this compare to Throttle Controlled Avionics, at the moment?

[Diazo]

Comparing the two, I prefer this mod.

The main reason for that is the multiple throttles available, you can configure your VTOL with two (or more) throttles so that you can throttle your lift and forward thrust engines separately, no having to use action groups to control that part of your takeoff and landing.

Note that I am the author of the Vertical Velocity Control mod which is compatible with this mod and you can use it to throttle the lift engines automatically to maintain altitude while you control your horizontal thrust engines manually with the keyboard.

D.

[qm3ster]

Comparing the two, I prefer this mod.

The main reason for that is the multiple throttles available, you can configure your VTOL with two (or more) throttles so that you can throttle your lift and forward thrust engines separately, no having to use action groups to control that part of your takeoff and landing.

Note that I am the author of the Vertical Velocity Control mod which is compatible with this mod and you can use it to throttle the lift engines automatically to maintain altitude while you control your horizontal thrust engines manually with the keyboard.

D.

So your mod+this mod can basically give the same hovering with unbalanced engines as TCA?

What makes this mod, in your opinion, better than TCA?

What about MechJeb's differential throttle utility? What do you have to say about that one?

Edited October 8, 2015 by qm3ster

[Diazo]

It boils down to a level of complexity.

TCA is plug-and-play. Drop it in and fly unbalanced vessels without any further action required.

This mod gives you options, the two biggest ones off the top of my head being multiple throttles (6 total) and the ability to set engines so they are controlled automatically to balance flight, controlled manually by a throttle, or locked to a specific level.

So say you have a giant VTOL that uses jet engines for lift for fuel reasons? Lock the jet engines at a set thrust to provide most of your lift, add some smaller downwards pointing rocket engines for altitude control on a second throttle (stock jet engines have too long a spool time for responsive altitude control), then put your horizontal pointing thrust engines on a third throttle so they can be controlled separately.

Note that the unbalanced thrust should be enabled on all three throttles, this mod calculates it separately for the engines assigned to each throttle, so turning up your horizontal engines will not flip your VTOL over.

I then mentioned my mod because it integrates with this mod and not TCA so I didn't want people thinking I recommended this mod for that reason. I integrated my mod with this mod because it has the complexity and options to make it worth doing so.

Note that my mod still works with TCA, it just doesn't talk to it like it can this mod.

The wildcard in all this is that TCA has gotten significant feature additions since I last looked at it, I'm pretty sure you can now tell TCA to ignore an engine for thrust balancing and there's nothing like the altitude control stuff TCA currently has in beta in this mod, but as my mod does that stuff for this mod it isn't really needed.

No comment on MechJeb, never used it or read up on it.

D.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Diazo

[brusura]

I too prefer this mod + diazo one , I feel more in control of any situation instead with TCA sometimes I do not understand what it is trying to do...of course It is me ^^

[Svm420]

I searched the thread, but didn't turn up anything. Does this work with AJE? I ask specifically because it, along with RealFuels, do not use the either of the stock engine modules. AJE use 3 different modules itself for different engine types, i.e. propellers, jets and rotors. They do however derive from ModuleEnginesFX. So I ask because this looks like the perfect mod for VTOL engine thrust balance and control, and hope compatibility is possible Thanks!

[PrivateFlip]

[B]Updated (version 080):[/B]
-1.05 version, all functionality still seems to work in 1.05.