new motorized hinge system - now with a cargo spaceship, and a MK3 cargo bay

[sgt_flyer]

hello fellow KSPers

edit : here's the link directly to the cargo post : http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/39481-new-motorized-hinge-system?p=510565&viewfull=1#post510565

MK3 cargo bay : http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/39481-new-motorized-hinge-system-now-with-a-cargo-spaceship?p=515498&viewfull=1#post515498

i make this thread to share a proof of concept i made, for animating parts - (i started working on this after seeing the new structural pylon based helicopters)

here's, it's not intended to simply make something spin - here i have only partial rotation with a lock into place at each end

first, some pictures of the system:

Step 1 - just after loading the craft :

Step 2 - extending the legs (which start to bend the structural pylon):

Step 3 - legs extended (you can see here that once the legs have stopped moving, they no longer affect the rest of the structure of their own craft, and clip through the base plate):

Step 4 - legs starting to retract, bending the structural pylon the other way :

Step 5 - legs retracted, but the docking ports have managed to dock between themselves, preventing the pylons to straighten up.

once you went to make the hinge to straighten, you simply need to undock the docking port to go back to step 1 (for the moment, nothing broke during my testings - i repeated the process several times without a hitch ).

as you can see, there's no separation of the parts into several entities - so if you add in engines on the system, you will still be able to control it

now here is the .craft file with the proof of concept system:

http://www./download/szrylyiacedyorp/Stock_Hinge.craft

have a go with it, feel free to try to improve it, and don't hesitate to post your own testings of this system

a warning though: Jeb found the system, and turned it into a kerbal catapult !

anyway, as always in KSP, Have fun

Edited July 13, 2013 by sgt_flyer

[Giggleplex777]

I have also been trying to make stock moving parts, but the landing legs always get stuck and break off.

Good to see someone who got it to work!

[DisarmingBaton5]

Cool! Is it applicable to anything? It seems like the landing legs are flimsy and would break under load (rovers, etc)

[sgt_flyer]

the legs are enough to overcome the structural pylon's elasticity in fact here, once docked, the weight is put onto the structural pylon and the JR docking port - put an asymmetric load on a structural pylon and it will bend on it's own - i think it can be more suited to orbital systems (aka cargo doors, etc ) - but for the moment, it's only the basic proof of concept here experiments will have to be made on how much we can get from this

[MoreasGamin]

Wow, I think that could actually be applied to VTOLs... As soon as I've got the time, I''ll start working on that.

[Giggleplex777]

Looking through my screenshots and I found this:

It's powered by 24-77s and it kinda looks like an octopus.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Giggleplex777

[sgt_flyer]

brrr someone's trying to engineer a Kraken !

[SpaceAce]

Hinge parts will be such a great addition once (if) they are added. I know there is the robotics mod that has them atm but I try to just stick with stock and can't wait for the official version.

[sgt_flyer]

i have made some progress - here's a cargo bay which works with my leg system

(although it needs to be operated manually, action groups don't work...) you need to undock 1 door at a time - i'll try with the other docking ports too - but i can't make the JR's to work with action groups

I also tested the thing with hacked gravity and decoupled from those launch clamps - it does not damage the box structure (although as i decouple the doors one by one, it induce a little torque on the object during the operation of the doors - although it will be reduced as your ship's mass goes up)

i used docking ports on each end, as they are the only thing which is able to stop the door's rotation (else, it will be considered as having no physical effect on the rest of your ship, the parts clipping through the rest while the door stabilize it's position)

here are the screenshots

Step 1 (initial state, cargo bay closed):

Step 2 (undocking the JR ports inside the box, one by one, but it would be feasible to create a structure to have the ports outside the box):

Step 3 (toggling the landing legs, which force the bay doors open):

Step 4 (bay doors docked in open position, with the landing legs which clips through the door because they lose their physical abilities once they stop moving):

Step 5 (landing legs toggled back, so they are in their initial position, ready to undock the bay doors, to return in the same state as step 1,as the structural pylons elasticity will force the doors back in their original position):

note : even if you activate the landing legs without decoupling the JR docks, the structure will shake a bit until the landing legs manage to clip through the doors - but the cargo bay did not sustain any damage during the test.

I'll try to integrate the cargo bay inside a space capable cargo vessel

Edited July 9, 2013 by sgt_flyer

[sgt_flyer]

i made a new stock cargo spaceship, with animated bay doors

here are some images of it in orbit:

of course, the bay doors use the system i presented in this post

some stats about the cargo ship :

number of parts : 237 (492 parts with the launch vehicle)

propellants :

4320 units of liquid fuel,

5280 units of oxydizer,

750 units of monopropellant

Weight (with tanks full, no payload) : 102 tons

Dry weight : 50.99t (with all rocket fuel and monopropellant drained)

Delta-V (empty) : around 5000 m/s - with a TWR of 0.36

Delta-V (50t cargo) : around 3000 m/s - with a TWR of 0.24

so it is able to ferry your precious payloads quite far away

docking ports : the cargo ship has 2 exterior docking ports, 1 shielded docking port at the front, and a SR docking port at the rear (if you need to pull extra wide payloads which would not fit inside the cargo bay).

inside the bay, there is 1 standard docking port on each end of the bay, and 4 Jr docking ports at the bottom, so you can dock a wide variety of payloads inside it.

the whole cargo bay is slightly longer than a jumbo tank. (although a jumbo wouldn't fit inside, due to the inside docking ports which reduce a bit the avaible length)

Operation of the bay door system :

note of warning : always close the bay door before attempting to time warp (else, hilarity will ensue during timewarp, as the doors will put themselves in an awkward angle, and the doors will rip off their 'open' docking ports when you exit timewarp)

step 1 : undock the two bay doors (the docking ports are accessible just above the cockpit section)

step 2 : hit G to deploy the landing legs : they will push the bay doors until they connect with their open position docking ports.

step 3 : retract the landing legs with G.

step 4 : undock the bay doors from their open position docking ports, they will slam back in their original position, thanks to the structural pylon elasticity.

after step 4, you can restart from step 1 to open the doors.

launch vehicle : i used temstar's supernova SHLLV to bring it to orbit (the nova can bring it to orbit too, but lack a bit of control authority for such an assymetrical payload, and you end up with several degrees off from your planned orbit)

don't forget to disable gimballing on the boosters of the supernova, (key '0') and set your throttle 2 small notches down from the maximum (to prevent the winglets from making you veer off course). make your G-turn as usual, and set your throttle to max after 20000m.

here's the file with the cargo atop Supernova SHLLV :

http://www./download/5ltng4h7lzxn4qo/Heavy_Cargo.craft

some fun facts about the cargo : while i was testing different launch vehicles, i had several launcher failures - although the external engines could be damaged by the debris, the central bay door whistanded the damage - and the whole cargo bay structure can serve for lithobraking to protect the command pod ! (i've seen the command pod survive a crash at 112m/s on the ground) just try to land cargo bay first, and the structure collapse will protect the command pod.

as always in KSP, have fun

Edited July 11, 2013 by sgt_flyer

[spaceman1999]

That cargo craft is amazing and I think I've seen a shuttle with a system like this before.

[zekes]

does anyone else have the problem that the legs go through the panels? how do i fix this? I'm using the normal ones that you guys are using...

[Giggleplex777]

(i started working on this after seeing the new structural pylon based helicopters)

Were they mine?

[zekes]

no im trying to make my own, like they start jittering around and the legs clip through the panels.

[sgt_flyer]

@giggleplex yes they were yours

@Zekes - the legs will clip through the panels at a moment or another - once they stop moving, they lose all physical effect they have on it's own ship parts. (which is why i used docking ports, to provide stopping and locking points - but you need to not forget to undock it from it's closed position prior to making it move)

basically, if a part is not undergoing an animation, it can't affect the rest of the ship - the parts will harmlessly clip through each other - until something breaks and they become two separate entities (that's usually when the fun begins ) although the structural pylons are unbreakable and elastic enough for this kind of work.

Also, try to limit the max angle you have between your starting and ending point - else, when you free the door so it can close back, the speed would be too important and the doors 'closed' docking ports won't detect the doors on their first passage during the slam back.

[Giggleplex777]

Yes!10characters

[Jeb Cubed]

So many ideas, not enough time. I think I will make a cargo plane first. I love making them.

[sgt_flyer]

Be sure to take gravity into account when making ground or air based doors (gravity alone can make a structural pylon to slightly bend if there's enough weight attached on it)

[Rune]

Wow. The helicopter rotors are a bit more impressive, but it's always cool to see stuff like this, taking advantage of "bugs" to do stuff we were never meant to do, but is cool. I'm bookmarking this, you know.

Rune. Now on a scale of 1 to 10, how uselessly complicated is this?

[sgt_flyer]

Well, i'd say 6 or 7 on ten it does not use a lot of parts, but you need to carefully adjust the parts which make the door system - i used the hacked gravity mode in alt +f12 to quickly tweak the positions, notably of the docking ports. Once everything was correctly set, i launched the cargo normally into orbit without cheats

[Rune]

Well, i'd say 6 or 7 on ten it does not use a lot of parts, but you need to carefully adjust the parts which make the door system - i used the hacked gravity mode in alt +f12 to quickly tweak the positions, notably of the docking ports. Once everything was correctly set, i launched the cargo normally into orbit without cheats

You know what would be cool? Subassembly files of "standardized" stock cargo bays, perhaps fitting the various fuselages. I know I would use one...

Rune. Yay for stock!

[sgt_flyer]

Hmm - would be hard to go under mk3 fuselages - maybe mk2 is possible, but it will be really hard to miniaturize this much.

Regarding mk3 size, i had tried to make a shuttle style cargo bay before, now that i know how to do, i may be able to convert it

Edited July 12, 2013 by sgt_flyer

[sgt_flyer]

okay, newest thing it the cargo bay series :

MK3 cargo bay subassembly for your spaceplanes! (saved as a perfect subassembly by copying the .craft from the SPH to the subassembly folder - you can also put the .craft inside your SPH and build your spaceplane around the cargo bay)

the cargo bay has been tested using the gravity hack cheat. (i'm not a good spaceplane designer )

note : due to the miniaturization needed to go this small, one of the bay doors may fail to open on the first time. in this case, simply fold back the legs, verify that the still closed bay door is undocked, and unfold back. also, during closing, the doors will go back too fast, will go past the closed position, then go back an dock with it - during this time, it can clip through your payload - but as long as there is no part doing an animation at the same time on your payload, everything should be fine.

also, keep in mind of the landing legs closed position, when creating a payload for it. (a 1.25m diameter fuel tank connected to the standard docking port will still fit under the landing legs in closed position)

now, the screenshots :

the subassembly itself

cargo bay closed, with MK3 parts before and after :

opened cargo bay :

screenshot from inside, landing legs retracted prior to closing the cargo bay :

nightshot :

MK3 cargo bay characteristics :

the cargo bay has 156 parts, and weights 9.39 tons. it has roughly the length of two MK3 fuselage.

it has 1 standard docking port and a JR docking port inside.

door operations : the door operations remain the same as the previous cargo bay : undock both doors, press G to deploy the legs, so they push the doors until they dock, when you finished your payload operations, retract the legs, then undock the doors so they close by themselves.

the .craft file : (you can put it either in your subassembly folder, or in your SPH for building a spaceplane around it)

http://www./download/m8ln4n0t9778cob/MK3_Cargo_Bay.craft

in the hopes that some of you can make a Spaceplane / shuttle around it

as always in KSP, have fun

note : with the current stock parts, i don't think it's possible to miniaturize the landing leg technique more than that - the landing legs will be too long after that (you'll have to use something more along the lines of giggleplex77 octopus system, by remembering that in orbit, the engines will modify your orbit during openings) - although you would really need small satellites for a smaller cargo bay than the MK3

Edited July 13, 2013 by sgt_flyer

[p331083]

Excellent design and work. Ive went ahead and reversed engineered it a bit;

[p331083]

You have any issues with the struts breaking?

In this design the cargo bay is not nearly as large as your original, but underneath that floor are enough fuel to provide 2800m/s or so of delta v. Even still, has more than enough room for 1.5m parts and with my redesigned layout allows for larger payloads(hinges at the ends v middle of door). As is part count is 189, but still needs more work/parts.

Edited July 14, 2013 by p331083