[1.0.5] TAC Life Support v0.11.2.1 [12Dec]

[Godot]

That´s really nice, thanks ... in this case I will give it a try ... it feels a little bit unnatural, not to have to worry about Oxygen, electricity and food in my 1.0.4 career

[Aured]

On CKAN, what is the difference between the RSS config and the stock one?

[almagnus1]

I had a kerbal killed by CO2 toxicity, despite having MORE than enough O2, and CO2 storage remaining. I have both TAC-LS and MKS/OKS installed, and I'm trying to figure out which one killed the Kerbal.

What are the exact kerbal kill conditions of TAC-LS?

[dlrk]

Did you have electricity?

[Voidryder]

@almagnus1 - Run out of food, water or O2. CO2 does not kill in TACLS. But biggest killer is poor mission planning.

[kaoz]

Is this mode still working for v1.04 or should I until is updated

[munseeker]

Is this mode still working for v1.04 or should I until is updated

It works - you can ignore the warning when you load the game.

[chrisl]

I've recently started building ships that include the Carbon Extractor and Water Purifier, both of which generate additional waste. I pack on extra food but I can't ever seem to get the calculations for the extra waste production correct so I'm always running out of waste storage space. Being able to dump the waste would be great. Alternatively, how about a set of containers specifically for solid waste.

[Gryphon]

I've recently started building ships that include the Carbon Extractor and Water Purifier, both of which generate additional waste. I pack on extra food but I can't ever seem to get the calculations for the extra waste production correct so I'm always running out of waste storage space. Being able to dump the waste would be great. Alternatively, how about a set of containers specifically for solid waste.

AFAIK, if you fill your Waste, Waste Water, or CO2 storage, then the excess just disappears. Personally, I like to have enough storage, but it's not necessary.

[almagnus1]

Did you have electricity?

That might have been what had happened, but normally when I freeze them (due to lack of heaters, I assume), it's death to lack of electricity. Food had more than enough (single kerbal capsule heading to the Mun and back with a small hex can for life support)

@almagnus1 - Run out of food, water or O2. CO2 does not kill in TACLS. But biggest killer is poor mission planning.

Food, water and O2 was good. The toxicity message threw me.

[Sabazi]

That might have been what had happened, but normally when I freeze them (due to lack of heaters, I assume), it's death to lack of electricity. Food had more than enough (single kerbal capsule heading to the Mun and back with a small hex can for life support)

I'm pretty sure "killed by CO2 toxicity" is the message for running out of EC. If you look at the OP, it says that Kerbals need electricity "for air quality and climate control." Basically, to run the fans/CO2 scrubbers.

Incidentally, you don't need storage for any of the waste types, and it's pointless unless you have a recycler part. If you don't have waste storage it's 'vented into space' and you don't have to worry about it.

[Targa]

Am I correct in guessing this mod requires you to start a new game? I don't see any mention of requiring a new game start in the OP, nor any of the help or tutorial pages. Yet after installing this and running the game, as soon as I click "resume saved" a window pops up that says I have incompatible saves and asks if I want to delete them...

[Godot]

Nope ... it is usable in all games after you put it into the gamedata-folder.

If you have researched certain nodes with TAC LS-Parts in them (i.e. resource containers) you will however have to go to the science center and unlock those parts (at least if you want to use them )

Also it would be a good idea to have no manned missions running when you put the mod into gamedata ... I guess else your Kerbonauts might have certain problems with a lack of resources (while each capsules comes with its own set of supplies, those are rather limited (IIRC 3 days for each resource ... so, if you have long term manned missions running when adding the mod those might result in the resources running out and the Kerbals finally dying)

[Amedee]

I'm using TAC LS 0.11.1.20 on KSP 1.0.4 64bit Linux.

When I have a tourism contract (bring a tourist into orbit etc), and I go to the launch pad with a craft with at least one empty seat, I get a dialog asking me if I want to load a tourist. If I load a tourist, the following happens:

• The game gets extremely slow, about 1 fps.
  
• There is a yellow text across the screen:
  

  Error - EmptyEvaSuit - Cannot find VesselInfo for a92e189f-2dc7-4680-8245-e71154d83ec2

  
  

In KSP.log I found these lines that may be relevant and lead me to post here:

[LOG 00:52:27.087] Tac.LifeSupportController[FFE00FA2][160.77]:  OnCrewBoardVessel: from=Mk1 Command Pod(Space Rescue 1), to=Mk1 Command  Pod(Space Rescue 1)
[ERR 00:52:27.088] Tac.LifeSupportController[FFE00FA2][160.77]:  EmptyEvaSuit - Cannot find VesselInfo for  a92e189f-2dc7-4680-8245-e71154d83ec2

Indeed, I have only one Mk1 Command Pod in my vessel and that is where my tourist is loaded.

The issue does not occur under any of these conditions:

• My vessel is fully loaded with kerbonauts before I go to the launch pad.
  
• My vessel is not fully loaded and I select not to load a tourist into the vessel, leaving seats empty.
  

My KSP.log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/z2krz26jg71rwg6/KSP.log.xz?dl=0

(Extract with unxz KSP.log.xz on Linux or use 7Zip on Windows - it's just LZMA compression, it's the default compression format on kernel.org, and if it's good enough for Linus then it's good enough for me.)

[TaranisElsu]

@Amedee

Looks like a bad mod interaction. Which mod adds the dialog asking you if you want to load a tourist?

My KSP.log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/z2krz26jg71rwg6/KSP.log.xz?dl=0

(Extract with unxz KSP.log.xz on Linux or use 7Zip on Windows - it's just LZMA compression, it's the default compression format on kernel.org, and if it's good enough for Linus then it's good enough for me.)

I use 7Zip, which seems to be able to open everything so no problems with the file format. That is the wrong file though. I need the Player.log file since you are on Linux (KSP_Data/output_log.txt if on Windows). Not sure why KSP even has the KSP.log file .

Since the error message from my mod only shows up once, I don't think it is my mod causing the problem. I didn't think that situation could ever happen, but it looks like it trapped the error successfully and didn't blow up.

You do have errors from other mods, so I suggest making a test install of KSP with just this mod, ModuleManager, and the mod that adds that dialog. See if you can recreate the issue and upload a log file from that. Otherwise, just get me the Player.log file from your current install.

Also, thank you for a very good description of the problem! I appreciate it!

Am I correct in guessing this mod requires you to start a new game? I don't see any mention of requiring a new game start in the OP, nor any of the help or tutorial pages. Yet after installing this and running the game, as soon as I click "resume saved" a window pops up that says I have incompatible saves and asks if I want to delete them...

Kerbals on vessels do not start consuming resources until you get within loading range (about 2.4 km), so you have a chance to send supply ships after installing the mod without worrying about your Kerbals dying. You do need to make sure that you close that last 2.4 km quickly though, because you only have 2 hours once the timer starts.

I'm pretty sure "killed by CO2 toxicity" is the message for running out of EC. If you look at the OP, it says that Kerbals need electricity "for air quality and climate control." Basically, to run the fans/CO2 scrubbers.

Incidentally, you don't need storage for any of the waste types, and it's pointless unless you have a recycler part. If you don't have waste storage it's 'vented into space' and you don't have to worry about it.

^ What Sabazi said: "air toxicity" means you ran out of ElectricCharge. Make sure that you have plenty of EC storage even with solar panels and RTGs. KSP's EC generation can get weird at high warp rates.

^^ The second part was also correct: you don't need storage for any waste. Excess is dumped overboard with no consequences -- except that you won't have it available to recycle. That is why capsules are only given a trivial amount of storage, but the recycling parts come with lots of storage.

Is this mode still working for v1.04 or should I until is updated

It works - you can ignore the warning when you load the game.

Sorry, I will get that updated as soon as I can.

On CKAN, what is the difference between the RSS config and the stock one?

The RSS config uses human consumption rates, instead of using my scaled rates for Kerbals. It should cause them to consume supplies roughly four times faster.

I cannot find food modules? I only have 3 days of food?

Did you figure it out? If not, please upload your log file (see the link in my signature for instructions).

Can I make the kerbals not die when a resource runs out?

Working on it. Several pages back you will see a teaser image for the new settings dialog.

I have an issue with electricity consumtion. It is simply not consumed if I am timewarping in KSC, i. e. not in any active flight.

That is intentional. Solar panels and RTGs do not generate any electricity while the vessel is unloaded, nor do they "catch up" when the vessel is loaded again, so it is not fair to require you to have enough electricity to cover those times.

For those interested, electricity consumption while unloaded is limited by ElectricityMaxDeltaTime. Set it to the same value as MaxDeltaTime to make it consume normally. Otherwise, it will only consume ElectricityMaxDeltaTime/MaxDeltaTime (default = 1/86400) of the electricity when the vessel is loaded again.

Edited July 16, 2015 by TaranisElsu
typo

[Targa]

My one wish for this mod: If you install Rover Dude's MKS/OKS mod, you'll notice in the VAB that he added two "Filter by Function" tabs, "Kolonization" and "Freight". Would love to see TAC-LS add it's own "Life Support" tab to the VAB. As is, the many parts listed under "Utility" make it a bit spammy, and I have to page through to find stock Squad parts.

[Wheffle]

My one wish for this mod: If you install Rover Dude's MKS/OKS mod, you'll notice in the VAB that he added two "Filter by Function" tabs, "Kolonization" and "Freight". Would love to see TAC-LS add it's own "Life Support" tab to the VAB. As is, the many parts listed under "Utility" make it a bit spammy, and I have to page through to find stock Squad parts.

This would be awesome. My one and only complaint is the number of parts in this mod. Not to criticize; this mod is awesome and I can't play without it.

[Yemo]

That is intentional. Solar panels and RTGs do not generate any electricity while the vessel is unloaded, nor do they "catch up" when the vessel is loaded again, so it is not fair to require you to have enough electricity to cover those times.

For those interested, electricity consumption while unloaded is limited by ElectricityMaxDeltaTime. Set it to the same value as MaxDeltaTime to make it consume normally. Otherwise, it will only consume ElectricityMaxDeltaTime/MaxDeltaTime (default = 1/86400) of the electricity when the vessel is loaded again.

Could you set that automatically, if

BackgroundProcessing.dll

is detected? Which deals exactly with the non-EC generation issue.

[Amedee]

@Amedee

Looks like a bad mod interaction. Which mod adds the dialog asking you if you want to load a tourist?

I'm not sure actually, either it is a stock feature or it's part of Contract Pack: Tourism Plus. Would a screenshot help to identify it?

I use 7Zip, which seems to be able to open everything so no problems with the file format. That is the wrong file though. I need the Player.log file since you are on Linux (KSP_Data/output_log.txt if on Windows). Not sure why KSP even has the KSP.log file .

To be honest, I wasn't even aware that Player.log existed. I Googled "KSP Player.log" ans these came up:

• https://github.com/taraniselsu/TacLifeSupport/wiki/Help
  
• http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/78485-Get-rid-of-KSP-log-file-to-simplify-KSP-and-mod-support
  

I'm ashamed that I didn't do better research before I reported this. *commits seppuku* (no, not really!)

This is the current Player.log, still with all 200+ mods installed: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qnupot82j38j4lx/Player.log.xz?dl=0

Since the error message from my mod only shows up once, I don't think it is my mod causing the problem. I didn't think that situation could ever happen, but it looks like it trapped the error successfully and didn't blow up.

Well, the message had me worried there for a moment.

You do have errors from other mods,

I know... I have 214 mods installed according to CKAN. Please don't tell me it's too much, because my Linux box is perfectly capable to handle them all. But I accept that more mods means more potential conflicts between mods.

amedee@kerbol:~/Games/KerbalSpaceProgram$ egrep "^\[E" KSP.log | wc -l
613

613 errors and exceptions on 214 mods, that's an average of 3 per mod. One of these days I'm going to use some grep-fu on the logs and find out who the biggest offenders are - and my first impression isn't that TAC-LS is doing the most log pollution.

so I suggest making a test install of KSP with just this mod, ModuleManager, and the mod that adds that dialog. See if you can recreate the issue and upload a log file from that. Otherwise, just get me the Player.log file from your current install.

I'll definitely do a clean install with only MM, TAC-LS and CP:T+ later.

Also, thank you for a very good description of the problem! I appreciate it!

Well, my day job is QA Engineer at an Open Source software company, so I am supposed to know how to write a good problem description, they pay me to do that!

[Targa]

Took me a few days, but I finally figured out how to create a new "Life Support" tab in the VAB/SPH and move the TAC-LS parts from the Utility tab to this new tab. It requires installing Filter Extensions but NOT installing the 000_FilterExtensions Configs folder that comes with that mod. Once you install Filter Extensions, read this post for instructions on how to move TAC-LS parts from the Utility tab to a new Life Support tab.

[Streetwind]

I'm not sure actually, either it is a stock feature or it's part of Contract Pack: Tourism Plus. Would a screenshot help to identify it?

It is Tourism Plus. Source: I have it installed as well.

[Amedee]

It is Tourism Plus. Source: I have it installed as well.

Correct. And when I load a tourist when I am still in the VAB, I don't have an error. So it's definitely a conflict between CP:T+ and TAC-LS.

I will investigate further and report back.

[Comatorium420]

The issue does not occur under any of these conditions:

• My vessel is fully loaded with kerbonauts before I go to the launch pad.
  
• My vessel is not fully loaded and I select not to load a tourist into the vessel, leaving seats empty.
  

First of all thank you for answering my question wich was ''Is TAC working on 1.0.4'' and it seems it is.

Your bug... well isn't really a bug, it is but the thing is this is probably the Tourism Plus contracts and you cannot achieve the mission if there are no pilots on board. The amount of modding it would take to somehow convince KSP to not start a mission if it doesn't meet with a simple contract packs assets is just not worth the effort when you can just... well... do as the contract asks.

The error message probably comes from the fact that TAC doesn't know what the hell is this bugged program that is Tito Kerman once a bad code was initiated.

Usually if something bugs with the contract packs, the tourist gets XP and the mission is not complete, two errors at the same time might be too much.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Comatorium420

[FungusForge]

So, I was building a rover intended for extended stays away from colony, and encountered an issue. I had 2 small life support hexcans attached to a cubic strut, and for whatever reason at x3-x4 phys warp, the cubic strut melts a rather important part. I think its a bug because in the thermal overlay the cubic strut rapidly blinks hot, then cold, then hot again, constantly heating up adjacent parts.

[Gryphon]

So, I was building a rover intended for extended stays away from colony, and encountered an issue. I had 2 small life support hexcans attached to a cubic strut, and for whatever reason at x3-x4 phys warp, the cubic strut melts a rather important part. I think its a bug because in the thermal overlay the cubic strut rapidly blinks hot, then cold, then hot again, constantly heating up adjacent parts.

It's probably the known stock bug where very small parts apparently become victim of a problem with the heat calculations.