[1.0.5] TAC Life Support v0.11.2.1 [12Dec]

[krenshala]

Two causes immediately pop into mind (that are easy to check):

(1) You have two version of my mod installed. Is there both a {KSP}/GameData/TacLifeSupport directory and a {KSP}/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupport directory?

(2) You have two copies of the ModuleManager DLL installed. This mod requires Module Manager version 1.5 or later. But make sure that you only have one copy (other mods use that too).

Beyond those two, I would need to see the log file found at {KSP}/KSP_Data/output_log.txt. Do any of the resources show up twice? Does the description text show twice on every command pod, even those from other mods? What other mods do you have installed?

I hope that helps!

For 1, which is the correct path? I have TAC installed as {KSP}/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupport(|Containers|HexCans|Recyclers), however, in my output log I see mention that it cannot find the TacLifeSupport module. I'm assuming I have something installed incorrectly though I cannot see what it would be (copied the contents of GameData in the zip to my {KSP}/GameData directory).

EDIT: Wierd. Dug back through the thread to find the latest test build and pulled it from your drop box link and now things are working.

Edited November 30, 2013 by krenshala

[gernsey]

I think i should have read the manual a little better before launching.. Is there anyway to deal with Waste production?? I launched a mission to Dres. Plenty of food, but the accumulation of Waste is happening so fast, my containers are half full and my mission is not half over. I have Oxygen recylers and water recyclers on the ship, but i didn't see any waste recyclers, or waste containers. How do i manage waste? Is there a way to jettison it?

[Jivaii]

I think i should have read the manual a little better before launching.. Is there anyway to deal with Waste production?? I launched a mission to Dres. Plenty of food, but the accumulation of Waste is happening so fast, my containers are half full and my mission is not half over. I have Oxygen recylers and water recyclers on the ship, but i didn't see any waste recyclers, or waste containers. How do i manage waste? Is there a way to jettison it?

It dumps automatically. But waste/food should equal out.

[TaranisElsu]

I think i should have read the manual a little better before launching.. Is there anyway to deal with Waste production?? I launched a mission to Dres. Plenty of food, but the accumulation of Waste is happening so fast, my containers are half full and my mission is not half over. I have Oxygen recylers and water recyclers on the ship, but i didn't see any waste recyclers, or waste containers. How do i manage waste? Is there a way to jettison it?

You do not need to worry about the waste containers becoming full. Excess waste is just dumped, with no bad consequences.

[rosenkranz]

I take it waste cannot be recycled? It is the final waste product?

[pasty2k2]

Just curious, is waste not fully implemented just yet? I think it could be a realistic mechanic to have to deal with. Besides sending it back on a Soyuz and letting it burn up, how does/would the ISS crew manage excess waste? Is there an "airlock" you could just flush it out of? Space Debris is then an issue. Could this happen with TAC?

[Kalista]

Just curious, is waste not fully implemented just yet? I think it could be a realistic mechanic to have to deal with. Besides sending it back on a Soyuz and letting it burn up, how does/would the ISS crew manage excess waste? Is there an "airlock" you could just flush it out of? Space Debris is then an issue. Could this happen with TAC?

TAC fuel balancer lets you space it. Thats how I've been dealing with my waste so far but there won't be any floating debris.

[TaranisElsu]

I take it waste cannot be recycled? It is the final waste product?

The plan is to use the waste in a greenhouse part. The waste will be turned into fertilizer and used to help grow more food. It will not be able to use 100% of it though.

Just curious, is waste not fully implemented just yet? I think it could be a realistic mechanic to have to deal with. Besides sending it back on a Soyuz and letting it burn up, how does/would the ISS crew manage excess waste? Is there an "airlock" you could just flush it out of? Space Debris is then an issue. Could this happen with TAC?

The ISS crew manages waste just as you described: they put it in a return ship and let it burn up on reentry. Though I think they use the unmanned Progress missions instead of the manned Soyuz.

In the game, you could do something similar or you could make ejectable waste containers using decouplers and separatrons.

[cyberKerb]

The plan is to use the waste in a greenhouse part. The waste will be turned into fertilizer and used to help grow more food. It will not be able to use 100% of it though.

Just wondering what you're think in the way of how efficient a greenhouse part would be? Would it be something that is quite slow compared to the Co2 scrubber or the Water recycler?

[Patupi]

Yeah, if the greenhouse is implemented I think it should stretch the need for resupply to several years game time. That way when you have based on distant planets that have resupply needs and long transfer times via Hohmann transfer orbits you can actually resupply them before the Kerbals die of starvation Plus of course the possibility to input resources from planets that have atmospheres or surface resources (such as ice from Vall's surface) that could maintain life support indefinitely. To counter that it should also be rather bulky and heavy, with high per part weight as well as high weight per Kerbal being serviced.

[Wheffle]

Just picked this mod up. It's awesome. I really appreciate the time you took to make this.

Are there any plans for any kind of resource acquisition during missions, like CO2 scooping in foreign atmospheres, or gathering ice off of minmus and eeloo? I'd imagine that would be a fairly large add-on.

Also, are there some better textures floating around for the containers? I saw some pictures, but I must have missed where they're at.

The only thing I dislike about the mod is the horde of containers it adds (4 types of containers, 3 sizes each, plus hex containers). I wish there was a way to simplify the system and lower the container count, but I can't personally think of a better way to do it, so I understand why it's the way it is.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Wheffle
grammatical errors

[Aknar]

Simple, erase the folders containing those containers and open StockPartChanges.cfg, go all the way down to the hitchhiker and increase the resources to what ever amount you want. You can then go on to add resources to any empty, hollow (for realistic purposes) part you wish by adding it to the bottom of the list, you just need to reproduce the info overhead and fill in with the name of the part and the amount of resources (weight will be added on).

[jonathan_htsi]

I also made textures for this mod...

[WafflesToo]

Finished the work Regex started (with permission of course) and retextured the hexcans and recyclers to match his original work.

Uploaded it here:

http://www.curse.com/ksp-mods/kerbal/221356-tac-ls-retexture-pack-v1-0

Enjoy all

Edited June 15, 2014 by WafflesToo
updated link

[Wheffle]

Awesome, got the textures. They look great.

I also redefined 'food' as 'snacks' for the lulz. I'm thoroughly enjoying the mod.

[diomedea]

Finished the work Regex started (with permission of course) and retextured the hexcans and recyclers to match his original work.

...

Good job, nice textures.

Please note that the new textures appear just fine for hexcans and recyclers, however not for support containers: in this last case the new textures are in .png format instead of .tga, so they don't automatically override the standard ones form TAC LS mod. Nothing to sweat too much, for users who know how to convert .png in .tga; however it may be better to already provide tham as .tga with the upload.

[WafflesToo]

Good job, nice textures.

Please note that the new textures appear just fine for hexcans and recyclers, however not for support containers: in this last case the new textures are in .png format instead of .tga, so they don't automatically override the standard ones form TAC LS mod. Nothing to sweat too much, for users who know how to convert .png in .tga; however it may be better to already provide tham as .tga with the upload.

Thanks. The support can were done by Regex so I don't really want to go messing with them. The simplest solution I have for right now is to just delete the *.TGA files for the containers.

I'll see if I can get Regex's permission and package the whole texture pack together under the correct format.

Done and done. All of the textures should be the correct format now so installation should be a breeze

Edited December 5, 2013 by WafflesToo

[KerbMav]

Some thoughts about the reprocessing cycle when using a biotank.

[Jasmir]

Hi TaranisElsu,

i have the problem that the water/CO2 Recycles don't work:

- The craft is currently not manned, but there are plenty CO2/WasteWater left over from the former crew

- O2/H2O ressources are half full in general with different fill levels on different tanks

- I have the large CO2-Extractor and Waterpurifier build in, they are activated

- plenty ElektricCharge on the craft

- Waste is building up, but there is no CO2/WasteWater drained, no O2/H2O is filling up. (Due the fact, that there is currently no crew on this vessel, only the recylers can the source of this?)

Please tell me, if you need additional infos to hunt this down.

[Aknar]

TaranisElsu,

How about making a hitchhiker into a medical bay stocked with embryos or enfants to grow Kerbals for missions to the furthest reaches of the solar-system. The ship would leave kerbin unmanned and controlled by a probe (nice mission you need to plan if you are using RemoteTech). Kerbals would be born on the vessel and grow up under a computer nurse. Consumption of oxygen, food, ... would only start after a year or so and would very slowly increase as Kerbals grow to full size. Being taught only what they need to know, they would be ready to control the ship before reaching adulthood. This wouldn't avoid the need for 99% recycling, or sleep chambers, but it could be implemented before them (since I believe this is easier to mod). Colonies would be very easy to start with this idea, since you can bring an army of kerbals with only one trip.

It would take very little modding to get this done, since you only need to make the kerbals appear on the vessel after a given time (when they are able to command the vessel themselves). Consumption of resources would start beforehand but in tiny proportions and would increase past the time they assume control of the vessel, to the standard consumption amount of an adult kerbal a few years later. Taking into consideration the scaled down kerbin system (days are also 4x shorter) and relative intelligence and comprehension of spacecrafts they could grow and learn the basics to assume control of ship in very short time (little more than 4 years maybe?).

I'm not that interested in the idea, but I think it might interest a few here for their solar-system grand tour, or deep space exploration, or simply far off planet colonization.

[KerbMav]

.

A gruesome thought to be honest ...

[Catullus]

You might be able to convert waste using one of these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_gasification

[Aknar]

A gruesome thought to be honest ...

Yes of course... We are talking about sending individuals to other planets that are inaccessible because of the time it takes to sent a craft all the way over there. Freezing someone has not proven to be more than science fiction although we now have the technology to make ex-virto babies and nurse robots (even if it needs quiet a few years to make them truly functional...). "There are no age restrictions for the NASA Astronaut Corps. Astronaut candidates have ranged between the ages of 26 and 46, with the average age being 34". The lifespan of a human is too short for these missions and he can't freeze his aging by any means. It's safe to assume that a kerbals have a short life span (with all the explosions and all ^^), and the whole thing is a sized down version of our world, (with a certain number of alterations i must admit) Going further than mars or duna, would probably mean the astronaut in question would be retired by the time he gets to that planet and wouldn't have enough time to go back. Living his whole life in a vessel is not very human either...

I'm just looking at this from a scientific standing point but I won't argue with the inhumanity of this idea. Just putting ideas out there for others looking for a loophole in life-support. I play with these mods for realism but at the same time don't see human exploration of mars happening and would be sad to hear it has. Man going any further than their moon is a huge waste of resources for very little scientific advance, and will lead to considering such ideas and aberrations like trying to colonize mars (with no way back, not that the colony would actually last that long).

So to sum up: Yes you are absolutely right, I'd just extend that statement to other ideas floating around this thread

Edited December 6, 2013 by Aknar

[KerbMav]

.

If a sentient being makes the voluntary decision to go on a oneway trip, living the largest part of his lifetime in a spacecraft and enduring the (due to technological constraints most likely inevitable) effects of living in a zero-to-low-g environment, facing unpredictable dangers without any prospect of outside help ...

But to designate individuals that are not even born yet for such an endeavour, ignoring their right to a self determined life and free will, letting them be raised by robots and sentencing them to life on another planet ...

Not even close to being the same thing!

If the argument were that the robots are really intelligent and empathic, then response would be, why not send them without biological crew members?

The only exemption would be a voyage to an inhabitable planet to safe the species from extinction.

No hard feelings though, the idea just broke my heart.

[Patupi]

Freezing someone has not proven to be more than science fiction

True... well, freezing is easy, it's just unfreezing and keeping them alive that's tricky. However cryonics is not the only way to preserve life during such a long trip. There is the old favorite of generation starships. Make 'em REAL big and live on them. Then you do have kids. True, radiation needs to be dealt with much more than conventional vessels if you live your whole life on a ship, but it's doable. Another method is hibernation. Don't freeze someone, but instead put them in a forced coma and slow down the metabolism to a crawl. Still science fiction but so far slightly more believable than cryonics where we still don't have a method to avoid the tiny blood vessels in the brain from being damaged by water's phase transition expansion.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Patupi