[1.0.5] TAC Life Support v0.11.2.1 [12Dec]

[a__gun]

I'm pretty sure that if you simply use the absence of CO2 to infer the presence of CO2, then your recycler will operate everywhere except Kerbin and Laythe (I.E. in space, around Kerbol, on planets with no atmosphere etc)

[SirFishstick]

I'm not getting the parts and when I launch it says: Incorrect path(s): Gamedata/TacLifeSupport_0.10.2.15/Gamedata/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupport/TacLifeSupport.dll. I haven't removed any files or moved anything around at all. I just downloaded the folder and put it in Gamedata. Does anyone have this problem? What is wrong with TacLifeSupport.dll?

[Goddess Bhavani]

I'm not getting the parts and when I launch it says: Incorrect path(s): Gamedata/TacLifeSupport_0.10.2.15/Gamedata/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupport/TacLifeSupport.dll. I haven't removed any files or moved anything around at all. I just downloaded the folder and put it in Gamedata. Does anyone have this problem? What is wrong with TacLifeSupport.dll?

The path should be GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupport

As such, you should place ThunderAerospace into your KSP/GameData directory to make it work. Ensure you remove the folder TacLifeSupport_0.10.2.15 after that, as it is incorrect.

[stevehead]

First, I want to thank TarnisElsu for his work on this great mod that I have used pretty much ever since I started modded KSP more than a year ago. After coming back from a little hiatus, I'm looking forward to diving back into using this mod.

Regarding Tweakscale integration, I'm a little confused on what is the de facto method of decreasing the number of parts. Tweakscale comes with a config file for TACLS that is credited to O-Doc in the file, but I remember seeing posts by TaranisElsu of him mentioning he was working on a Tweakscale integration himself; so is the one from Tweakscale the "official" config? Also, if it is the official method, what about the parts that need to be deleted? I cannot find any documentation regarding this; having to deduce from the Tweakscale config which parts to delete myself seems a little excessive. There is also the TACLS Declutter by somnambulist that is mentioned in the wiki on github, but that was posted before 0.90 was released. Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Edited February 11, 2015 by stevehead

[CorBlimey]

Is there any workaround for the Life Support Monitoring window counting down time when in fact, due to recyclers and MKS, life support is going up? I am scared TAC is going to kill them off when they are fine and dandy with a decade of supplies left

Edit: ah, see from a post a while back that "It will catch up when you next load the ship, so it is as if it was running the entire time that you are in the map view -- but the Life Support Monitoring Window does not work in the map view yet. I am working on a new version that will fix that."

i.e. it seems to suggest that they won't die, just it won't display time left.

Good enough for now

[jefferyharrell]

it would be nice if the small radial canisters were KAS grabable. I am struggling to think of ways to transfer resources to small rovers etc. Shame I have to resort to a 'pipe' to pump over top-ups rather than carrying a neat little hexagonal canister over.

I use two different sets of small, man-portable (kerbal-portable) parts to carry stuff around in just that way. They come in different sizes and shapes, which appeals to my peculiar affectations. When properly installed you get variations for food, water, O2 and the various waste products. Couple that with KERT and you've got a whole system going.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/70986-0-23-Cargo-Transfer-Bags-and-Tanks(for-TAC-life-support)-0-7

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/76018-VTS-The-Versatile-Toolbox-System

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/93627-0-90-Kerbal-EVA-Resource-Transfer-v1-3-1-2015-01-01

[xtremeqg]

Found an interesting bug where TAC decided to delete one of my kerbals that was currently drinking coffee in the staff building. TAC was still tracking the state of a vessel that had already been recovered:

.....
ReturnFromSurface
{
	completed = 252829.21337237
	vessel
	{
		name = Lander
		flag = Squad/Flags/default
	}
	crew
	{
		crews = Jebediah Kerman
	}
}
.....
SCENARIO
{
	name = TacLifeSupport
	scene = 5, 7, 6
	SavedGameSettings
	{
		IsNewSave = False
		Enabled = True
		HibernateInsteadOfKill = False
		RespawnDelay = 9203545
		CrewMemberInfo
		{
			name = Jebediah Kerman
			lastUpdate = 252859.173372354
			lastFood = 252859.173372354
			lastWater = 252859.173372354
			vesselName = Lander
			vesselId = 1c3aff43-5952-4b8e-b551-0b45aa4be45d
			hibernating = False
		}
....
		VesselInfo
		{
			vesselName = Lander
			vesselType = Ship
			numCrew = 1
			numOccupiedParts = 1
			lastUpdate = 252859.173372354
			lastFood = 252859.173372354
			lastWater = 252859.173372354
			lastOxygen = 252859.173372354
			lastElectricity = 252859.173372354
			remainingFood = 0.283031490436213
			remainingWater = 0.187001600134518
			remainingOxygen = 28.9797527702011
			remainingElectricity = 250
			remainingCO2 = 70.8807240487511
			remainingWaste = 0.074022435408242
			remainingWasteWater = 0.685124947200803
			maxFood = 1.097
			maxWater = 0.725
			maxOxygen = 111.038
			maxElectricity = 250
			estimatedElectricityConsumptionRate = 0.035416666666667
			hibernating = False
			Guid = 1c3aff43-5952-4b8e-b551-0b45aa4be45d
		}
	}
}
.......

As you can see, the completed time is earlier than the last updates. The vessel itself does not exist in my save file as it was recovered.

[drtedastro]

coffee break's over, back on your head.

[TaranisElsu]

Found an interesting bug where TAC decided to delete one of my kerbals that was currently drinking coffee in the staff building. TAC was still tracking the state of a vessel that had already been recovered:

.....
ReturnFromSurface
{
	completed = 252829.21337237
	vessel
	{
		name = Lander
		flag = Squad/Flags/default
	}
	crew
	{
		crews = Jebediah Kerman
	}
}
.....
SCENARIO
{
	name = TacLifeSupport
	scene = 5, 7, 6
	SavedGameSettings
	{
		IsNewSave = False
		Enabled = True
		HibernateInsteadOfKill = False
		RespawnDelay = 9203545
		CrewMemberInfo
		{
			name = Jebediah Kerman
			lastUpdate = 252859.173372354
			lastFood = 252859.173372354
			lastWater = 252859.173372354
			vesselName = Lander
			vesselId = 1c3aff43-5952-4b8e-b551-0b45aa4be45d
			hibernating = False
		}
....
		VesselInfo
		{
			vesselName = Lander
			vesselType = Ship
			numCrew = 1
			numOccupiedParts = 1
			lastUpdate = 252859.173372354
			lastFood = 252859.173372354
			lastWater = 252859.173372354
			lastOxygen = 252859.173372354
			lastElectricity = 252859.173372354
			remainingFood = 0.283031490436213
			remainingWater = 0.187001600134518
			remainingOxygen = 28.9797527702011
			remainingElectricity = 250
			remainingCO2 = 70.8807240487511
			remainingWaste = 0.074022435408242
			remainingWasteWater = 0.685124947200803
			maxFood = 1.097
			maxWater = 0.725
			maxOxygen = 111.038
			maxElectricity = 250
			estimatedElectricityConsumptionRate = 0.035416666666667
			hibernating = False
			Guid = 1c3aff43-5952-4b8e-b551-0b45aa4be45d
		}
	}
}
.......

As you can see, the completed time is earlier than the last updates. The vessel itself does not exist in my save file as it was recovered.

When the mod killed Jeb, had you just launched a new vessel with him?

I have a guess as to what happened.... but a log file would have given me more information to determine exactly what happened.

I will repeat this* again here, but I should probably put it somewhere that more people will see it:

If you ever see the mod kill off your crew when you think it should not have, then please immediately alt+tab out of the game, make a copy of the log file, and upload the log file to Dropbox or somewhere that I can look at it. See my signature for instructions on where to find the log file. I have not seen or heard of that happening in a long time, but if you hit a special case then I would really like to know about it.

See my signature for instructions on where to find the log file. The game does not have to crash to make the log file.

* From page 256, eight pages ago, which is farther than I reasonably expect people to scroll back. But please, please, please read the last two pages before posting issues -- not directed at anyone in particular

[xtremeqg]

When the mod killed Jeb, had you just launched a new vessel with him?

I have a guess as to what happened.... but a log file would have given me more information to determine exactly what happened.

I will repeat this* again here, but I should probably put it somewhere that more people will see it:

If you ever see the mod kill off your crew when you think it should not have, then please immediately alt+tab out of the game, make a copy of the log file, and upload the log file to Dropbox or somewhere that I can look at it. See my signature for instructions on where to find the log file. I have not seen or heard of that happening in a long time, but if you hit a special case then I would really like to know about it.

See my signature for instructions on where to find the log file. The game does not have to crash to make the log file.

* From page 256, eight pages ago, which is farther than I reasonably expect people to scroll back. But please, please, please read the last two pages before posting issues -- not directed at anyone in particular

Nop, what happened was the following:

* Sent Jeb on a Mun mission

* Launched some other unmanned sattelites in the mean time (timewarp et al)

* Mun landing etc etc etc started getting low on supplies so burned all my dV in the direction of Kerbin for a near 90-degree reentry (woot no deadly reentry mod).

* Landed, recovered vessel

* Launched some more unmanned sattelites (timewarp et al)

* Wanted to rename some of them but got stuck in the tracking station with the "cannot exit" bug.

* Checked debug log, saw nullpointer violation and went looking in my save file for the kerbal I fired (scientist with max stupidity lol?) way back that I got from a rescue mission.

* While looking noticed message saying something along the lines of "something something TAC something : Deleting Jeb"

* No more Jeb in roster, no fired kerbal either.

* Edited both back to life, fixed some weird roster indexes while I was at it (most were set to zero, some to -1, others were incremental 1... 9) and made the unfireable kerbal less stupid (har!)

* Merrily launched 20 more things

I went and looked but unfortunately my log file's contents appears to be only showing today (I guess KSP truncates it every time?) but I will send you everything (including save file, mod list) when it happens again.

Ps I did look on page 1 altho in hindsight probably not well enough for any particular place to report bugs / issues and any guidelines.

[Nicklas]

Hey man.

I got a problem :/

TAC LS don't work when I'm in career mode, it shows all the parts, and all the numbers are visible. But the numbers just doesn't count down. The menu that pops up in a new game doesn't pop up in career mode. Neither is the plugin avaible anywhere.

The weird part is that it works fine in Sandbox :/

I use ATM, I run 32x Bit, I have the latest update..

Any ideas to what might be the problem, and how I fix it. It makes career a bit boring when TAC dont work.

[TaranisElsu]

Hey man.

I got a problem :/

TAC LS don't work when I'm in career mode, it shows all the parts, and all the numbers are visible. But the numbers just doesn't count down. The menu that pops up in a new game doesn't pop up in career mode. Neither is the plugin avaible anywhere.

The weird part is that it works fine in Sandbox :/

I use ATM, I run 32x Bit, I have the latest update..

Any ideas to what might be the problem, and how I fix it. It makes career a bit boring when TAC dont work.

Sounds like you have Tarsier Space Technology installed -- though I am just guessing because you did not give me a log file (see my signature) -- make sure that you get the fixed version. You might have to read back several pages on that mod's thread to find it.

[Northstar1989]

@TaranisElsu

Hi Taranis. I was wondering what ever happened to implementing WasteWater-electrolysis in TAC Life Support, as I described HERE.

Basically, the idea would be to filter out and electrolyze the Urea (CH₄N₂O) the main non-water component of WasteWater as described in THIS link:

CH₄N₂O + H₂O --> N₂ + 3 H₂ + CO₂

All it requires is a low-voltage power source (only approximately a third the voltage is required as for electrolyzing water) and a cheap nickel catalyst...

The products (N₂, H₂, and CO₂) are *all* currently useful propellants in the KSP-Interstellar Extension Config I have been working on with FreeThinker...

Additionally, if you couple this reaction with a Sabatier Reaction (CO₂ + 4 H₂ --> CH₄ + 2 H₂O) and Water Electrolysis (2 H₂O --> 2 H₂ + O₂) you get the *NET* reaction:

CH₄N₂O + H₂O --> CH₄ + N₂ + H₂ +O₂

Once again, the products are *all* usable propellants in KSP-Interstellar Extension Config.

I would VERY MUCH like to see this reaction implemented in TAC Life Support. The Hydrogen produced could be coupled with the Sabatier Reaction (which as it is currently implemented in TAC Life Support consumes water instead of Hydrogen- but it should be possible to use this reaction math to create an integrated recycler that recycles CO2 and Wastewater with a single part...)

Regards,

Northstar

EDIT: Went back and fixed the molecules of Hydrogen required for a balanced equation using the Sabatier Reaction. Thanks Yemo for catching that!

Edited February 24, 2015 by Northstar1989

[Northstar1989]

-deleted-

WHOOPS! Wrong thread!

Edited February 24, 2015 by Northstar1989

[lextacy]

is there a way to speed up the transfer of waste? it goes so slooooooooooooooooow

[futrtrubl]

is there a way to speed up the transfer of waste? it goes so slooooooooooooooooow

Yup. TAC Fuel Balancer and/or Ship Manifest.

[eddiew]

Hey there,

I was wondering if there'd ever been any consideration of having kerbals hibernate, rather than die. In my head, hibernation would mean they go unresponsive and cannot IVA/EVA/control the ship until such a time as they have enough resources to function again.

Justification (no really, I'm not just being soft-hearted )

Killing the crew reduces the opportunity for rescue missions.

Pretty much everyone has managed a crash where only the command pod survives. With TAC, it's usually impossible to save them before the 3 days of supplies runs out. By putting the crew into hibernation mode, players in this situation would be encouraged to go and retrieve the crashed ship, or at least its crew. With 0.90 and crew levels/skills, the desirability of rescuing experienced kerbals is greatly increased. At the same time, it helps players resist whacking F9, and learning to deal with the results of their ineptitude. Which is often far more interesting than F9ing until you get it right!

An option for the rescuer to 'transfer life support and revive crew' by EVA'ing to the crashed ship could be provided, moving say 75% of the resources in their suit to the pod, just enough to get the kerbals in it awake and into the new ship. Or obviously they could dock with it/claw it as usual and transfer ship-ship, with the ability to right-click the pod and 'revive', if you wanted to send a probe rescue bot.

Just an idea

[lextacy]

Hey there,

I was wondering if there'd ever been any consideration of having kerbals hibernate, rather than die. In my head, hibernation would mean they go unresponsive and cannot IVA/EVA/control the ship until such a time as they have enough resources to function again.

Justification (no really, I'm not just being soft-hearted )

Killing the crew reduces the opportunity for rescue missions.

Pretty much everyone has managed a crash where only the command pod survives. With TAC, it's usually impossible to save them before the 3 days of supplies runs out. By putting the crew into hibernation mode, players in this situation would be encouraged to go and retrieve the crashed ship, or at least its crew. With 0.90 and crew levels/skills, the desirability of rescuing experienced kerbals is greatly increased. At the same time, it helps players resist whacking F9, and learning to deal with the results of their ineptitude. Which is often far more interesting than F9ing until you get it right!

An option for the rescuer to 'transfer life support and revive crew' by EVA'ing to the crashed ship could be provided, moving say 75% of the resources in their suit to the pod, just enough to get the kerbals in it awake and into the new ship. Or obviously they could dock with it/claw it as usual and transfer ship-ship, with the ability to right-click the pod and 'revive', if you wanted to send a probe rescue bot.

Just an idea

I like the idea , but it should be something very very late in the tech tree

[Drew Kerman]

I'd also like to see something for rationing supplies to extend life support. The only problem is there's really no way to induce a penalty for doing this. If kerbal stats gets integrated more with the game perhaps there's a chance for this mechanic - like a near-starved kerbal can't operate a ship

[TaranisElsu]

I was wondering what ever happened to implementing WasteWater-electrolysis in TAC Life Support, as I described HERE.

You are welcome to make any parts that you want. Use of the TacConverterModule is allowed⁽¹⁾ so you would only need to make a new part config and texture, or possibly a new part model.

Keep in mind that urea is a small percentage of the WasteWater though. Have you seen my spreadsheet where I detailed all the math and rates and my sources?

⁽¹⁾ Please share any code changes if you make any.

is there a way to speed up the transfer of waste? it goes so slooooooooooooooooow

As @futrtrubl said, my TAC Fuel Balancer mod can help with that . Otherwise, resource transfers are handled by stock and there is not a way to change it. Are you really getting that much Waste? Or are you also referring to CarbonDioxide? I can see you getting hundreds of thousands of units of CarbonDioxide, but you shouldn't really end up with that much Waste...

Hey there,

I was wondering if there'd ever been any consideration of having kerbals hibernate, rather than die. In my head, hibernation would mean they go unresponsive and cannot IVA/EVA/control the ship until such a time as they have enough resources to function again.

Yes, there have been plans since the beginning to add a difficulty option that would make Kerbals hibernate instead of die. I even started implementing it. Unfortunately, that feature requires some big changes to the whole mod and so it will not happen very soon. But I am working on it.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd also like to see something for rationing supplies to extend life support. The only problem is there's really no way to induce a penalty for doing this. If kerbal stats gets integrated more with the game perhaps there's a chance for this mechanic - like a near-starved kerbal can't operate a ship

I've played with a few ideas to make them automatically ration when supplies get low, but it has not worked out well. Still churning on ideas though.

[lextacy]

As @futrtrubl said, my TAC Fuel Balancer mod can help with that . Otherwise, resource transfers are handled by stock and there is not a way to change it. Are you really getting that much Waste? Or are you also referring to CarbonDioxide? I can see you getting hundreds of thousands of units of CarbonDioxide, but you shouldn't really end up with that much Waste...

When taking interplanetary missions, my station back home accumulated 800 units of waste. Now it seems like a low number, but daaaaammmm it transfers slow. Im going to try ship manifest and see if that works out

[eddiew]

Yes, there have been plans since the beginning to add a difficulty option that would make Kerbals hibernate instead of die. I even started implementing it. Unfortunately, that feature requires some big changes to the whole mod and so it will not happen very soon. But I am working on it.

Shame about the amount of work, but nice to hear that it's on the radar Love the extra planning required by TAC-LS in general, but I do end up F9ing a lot of crashes so's I don't have to watch the kerbals suffocate/freeze/starve/dehydrate while the rescue ship is still in transit ^^;

I like the idea , but it should be something very very late in the tech tree

I would have said it needs to appear about the same time that you're moving beyond Mun... Ultimately hibernation is a mechanism to help players resist F9 when only the pod survives the landing. It's so easy to not live with the consequences of failure at all, that making it hard to access a feature that only reduces the consequences will just result in nobody using it.

Appreciate it's not realistic, unless you want to RP hibernation as part of kerbal biology, but fun gameplay and realism aren't always in-step

[RainDreamer]

Hey there,

I was wondering if there'd ever been any consideration of having kerbals hibernate, rather than die. In my head, hibernation would mean they go unresponsive and cannot IVA/EVA/control the ship until such a time as they have enough resources to function again.

Justification (no really, I'm not just being soft-hearted )

Killing the crew reduces the opportunity for rescue missions.

Pretty much everyone has managed a crash where only the command pod survives. With TAC, it's usually impossible to save them before the 3 days of supplies runs out. By putting the crew into hibernation mode, players in this situation would be encouraged to go and retrieve the crashed ship, or at least its crew. With 0.90 and crew levels/skills, the desirability of rescuing experienced kerbals is greatly increased. At the same time, it helps players resist whacking F9, and learning to deal with the results of their ineptitude. Which is often far more interesting than F9ing until you get it right!

An option for the rescuer to 'transfer life support and revive crew' by EVA'ing to the crashed ship could be provided, moving say 75% of the resources in their suit to the pod, just enough to get the kerbals in it awake and into the new ship. Or obviously they could dock with it/claw it as usual and transfer ship-ship, with the ability to right-click the pod and 'revive', if you wanted to send a probe rescue bot.

Just an idea

There is this mod that may go very well along with TAC or any other life support mod. It puts kerbals into cryogenic sleep, so they are temporarily removed from the game, consuming nothing, but do nothing else. Those things can be transformed into escape pods.

[WuphonsReach]

I'd like to see TAC-LS move a bit more towards MKS/OKS balance in terms of mass required per day per Kerbal. Make it less trivial to ship up 3 years of food/water/O2 for 10 kerbals. Maybe the containers end up weighing more and/or hold a bit less.

[Jonnyc2114]

Hoping someone else here could shed some light on an issue i'm having...

basically whenever I time warp, electric charge practically depletes itself right away, as soon as i come back to normal speed it will slowly regenerate as it would. What is fustrating i'll have a full battery, set it to time warp and depending on how much electric charge i have availible, TAC LS will stop the my time warp every 10-20 seconds because electric charge will deplete to zero almost instantly. Its not an issue i have seen before so I am hoping someone might have idea of what i'm talking about and perhaps have a solution unless this is intended.