[1.0.5] TAC Life Support v0.11.2.1 [12Dec]

[psyper]

The thing is that i dont have MM, but the stock parts work with the mod just fine w/o me changing the stock files at all. So... what is the difference? That's why I'm asking.

Some people are a bit 'nervous' (is that the right word) about editing config files and doing it correctly so its easier just to place a dll file on your install and then download the MM files - its dropping two files on to a folder and thats it. You also have the ability to remove it easy too - just delete the cfg file and reload the game. Some of my mods involve going in to every single kethane or stock part and adding code and changing other bits - to produce an open-this-add-that-change-this file would be horrendous and would be time consuming to the user and for me - on of my MM files is a couple of lines long and would be 100 times that if I had to give instructions to do it manually.

I've also done a lot of edits to my game so I'm planning to change these to mm cfg files so its easier to remove and add changes to the game - need a certain tank to weight this much for testing add the relevant cfg file no need to open up an editor the just remove it when I'm done testing.

Lastly, if you need to upgrade ksp or any mods or if you need to reinstall them you then don't have to go through the hassle of editing the code again.

[sidfu]

using MM is safter. just 1 space in a bad spot cn cause all your parts to disapear till u fix it ingame( ive had it happen when manualy editing .cfg)

[Crater]

The thing is that i dont have MM, but the stock parts work with the mod just fine w/o me changing the stock files at all. So... what is the difference? That's why I'm asking.

The difference is that without MM, what you get is exactly one day of supplied per kerbal in only the command pods. No more, no less.

This is dynamically added at load-time by the lifesupport DLL. ModuleManager allows you to trivially and safely adjust this default. You can add more supplies to some pods, or remove them from others, meaning that you would need separate tanks, or add LS storage onto other parts as well, or.... well anything you would want, generally.

The beauty of ModuleManager is that it allows a mod (or a user) to adjust and edit another mod's (or stock's) cfg files in a way that DOES NOT require them to be edited on disk. This means that you can undo the change by removing the MM config that comes with the editing mod, and that if several mods want to change the same original cfg file, they an all safely do so, and that if you update the original mod, you can drop the new cfg file into place and the required edits are reapplied next time you load the game.

It is a very small, very lightweight addon that uses almost no memory, takes a tiny amount of time to load, and massively simplifies many many tasks.

[Andrewmacor]

The difference is that without MM, what you get is exactly one day of supplied per kerbal in only the command pods. No more, no less.

This is dynamically added at load-time by the lifesupport DLL. ModuleManager allows you to trivially and safely adjust this default. You can add more supplies to some pods, or remove them from others, meaning that you would need separate tanks, or add LS storage onto other parts as well, or.... well anything you would want, generally.

The beauty of ModuleManager is that it allows a mod (or a user) to adjust and edit another mod's (or stock's) cfg files in a way that DOES NOT require them to be edited on disk. This means that you can undo the change by removing the MM config that comes with the editing mod, and that if several mods want to change the same original cfg file, they an all safely do so, and that if you update the original mod, you can drop the new cfg file into place and the required edits are reapplied next time you load the game.

It is a very small, very lightweight addon that uses almost no memory, takes a tiny amount of time to load, and massively simplifies many many tasks.

Thanks that answered my question. So Already downloaded MM, so i just put it in the gamedata folder? thats it?

[SpacedInvader]

So I'm brand new to KSP, and after a few weeks in .23, naturally I've set about trying to make the game harder and more immersive, which has brought me here pretty quickly. What I'm curious about though, being new to TAC and KSP at the same time, is whether or not the base electrical consumption is scaled correctly. The default is set to a base / per Kerbal of 2400 / 1200, and the documentation describes each pod as having 24 hours worth of use available, but at those rates, my MK1 pod runs out of charge in about 20mins, which means it can't even make a full orbit of Kerbin before the juice runs out. I understand the need for a draw on the battery to support life in the pod, but it seems that the numbers might be a little off? Anyway, I've searched through this thread, but found very little relating to my issue, so I'm hoping someone can bring me up to speed.

Thanks.

[RuBisCO]

So has anyone made a mod or .cfg that allows you to use KAS boxes to transport lift support?

[SpacedInvader]

Heyho.

So far the mod is superb but for me it has one giant flaw: Electricity. Why the heck does the standard-capsule has only 20 Minutes of Electricity? WHAT?! Food and Water lasting a DAY! A damn whole day! Even Oxygen... 30 Days without Food is okay as a base value. Without water 3 days is also ocay but the depletion of Electricity is so extremely high that i need over 30 Batterys to have at least 1 orbital flight! Thats not okay, well so far i can add other numbers, so thats okay for now. But as a standard 20 minutes... Thats the start and then orbital-maneuver, not even the landing...

Uhm, the max time with oxigen should be 3 - 6 minutes, not 3 days.

So far: The Mod is GREAT! I like it! Cant play without.

Stay crunchy.

You can adjust those values yourself in the overview to your fancy. And increasing storage capacity of the command modules is a very simple hack, just open the part file and plug in the new value

I think the point originally was that you can get an easy supply of electricity with solar panels, so the consideration was not how much supply you would need for your mission (as with food etc.), but just how you last through the night. But with career mode you get the problem, that you need a significant amount of science for those solar panels, but without them, your means to get science are limited, because both your probes and capsules run out of power.

So I only just now happened upon this exchange relating to my question. I can only attribute my inability to find it earlier to a lack of search-fu. That being said, I can think of two quick ways to solve this issue for people who are playing career mode rather than sandbox.

1: Scale electrical consumption with technology advancement (if possible), simulating the increased electrical draw of more advanced systems, so that early pods only use 24-50 units of charge per day, but by the time you've researched solar panels and batteries, you've got to keep up with the demand.

2: Add a very basic battery to the initial tech node. Something with enough capacity and light enough that it could be used in groups to support Kerbals on short missions, but not nearly enough capacity to support longer missions. This would at least bootstrap players through the early tech nodes until they develop solar panels and better batteries.

Just some thoughts since career mode is only going to get more people on board and it would be nice to be able to use TACLS all the way through.

[Crater]

Thanks that answered my question. So Already downloaded MM, so i just put it in the gamedata folder? thats it?

Yup, just drop the .dll in the GameData folder. You can place config files for it anywhere under there.

So has anyone made a mod or .cfg that allows you to use KAS boxes to transport lift support?

Not as such, but take a look at http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/70986-0-23-Cargo-Transfer-Bags-and-Tanks%28for-TAC-life-support%29-0-6 for a possibly better option

Just some thoughts since career mode is only going to get more people on board and it would be nice to be able to use TACLS all the way through.

Don't forget that most of the engines in game also generate power while they are running, so it is totally possible to do successful manned orbital flights with TACLS from the start. It just means that you have to put some focus into battery and solar panel research before you can head for the Mun. Definitely doable, though. Though I agree that it was challenging at times.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Crater

[SpacedInvader]

Don't forget that most of the engines in game also generate power while they are running, so it is totally possible to do successful manned orbital flights with TACLS from the start. It just means that you have to put some focus into battery and solar panel research before you can head for the Mun. Definitely doable, though. Though I agree that it was challenging at times.

This is true, and I did find that using the stretchy tanks service module as a battery helped immensely, but needing to constantly do burns to keep power up both seems unrealistic and requires you to carry a lot of extra fuel. Either way, both ideas were just to try and make this mod more appealing to early career players who want the challenge of life support, but don't want to have to build flying batteries before they get solar panels.

[Cdr_Zeta]

Hi,

Oxygen consumation is not being shown on the resources list neither is CO2 production assuming it is being produced; I verified O2 is being used with the clock and it gets depleted.

The Toolbar is really very problematic and doesnt let TacLife buttons work; any fixes for this?

I think the toolbar is causing science problems and folder problems I need to find out...

cdr zeta

[Unteknikal]

Hi,

Oxygen consumation is not being shown on the resources list neither is CO2 production assuming it is being produced; I verified O2 is being used with the clock and it gets depleted.

The Toolbar is really very problematic and doesnt let TacLife buttons work; any fixes for this?

That's weird TAC mods works perfectly In my game, although I'm not using last toolbar plug in.

I think the toolbar is causing science problems and folder problems I need to find out...

cdr zeta

That's weird TAC mods works perfectly In my game, although I'm not using last toolbar plug in, try an older version of toolbar maybe?

[Cdr_Zeta]

Hi,

I am tryin again tonite - streamin as well on these toolbar problems...

It could be a folder name issue ... I am seeing that modders are forcing folder names to their own names which makes it really difficult to tell what is what...folder names should be titled to their uses, not the creators...I just noticed this and am retrying with the original folders; glad to see it is woeking somewhere! Also be ware I am in Career Mode !

I am trying to get my favorite plugins to work in Career Mode...

Cdr Zeta

[landeTLS]

Hey. Im sorry if this is a stupid question but what kind of license is the plugin? The reason im asking is that im thinking of seperating and adapting the tacgenericconverter module for a project im working on

[Yogui87]

Hi,

Oxygen consumation is not being shown on the resources list neither is CO2 production assuming it is being produced; I verified O2 is being used with the clock and it gets depleted.

The Toolbar is really very problematic and doesnt let TacLife buttons work; any fixes for this?

I think the toolbar is causing science problems and folder problems I need to find out...

cdr zeta

O² is only consumed in space. On the launch pad, none of O² and CO² are active.

[Crater]

Hi,

I am tryin again tonite - streamin as well on these toolbar problems...

It could be a folder name issue ... I am seeing that modders are forcing folder names to their own names which makes it really difficult to tell what is what...folder names should be titled to their uses, not the creators...I just noticed this and am retrying with the original folders; glad to see it is woeking somewhere! Also be ware I am in Career Mode !

I am trying to get my favorite plugins to work in Career Mode...

Cdr Zeta

Do NOT rename folders when you install mods, it is almost guaranteed to break stuff.

The reason is that the asset database that KSP builds uses the exact path name to the file as the key by which it will find things later when they are called for. You move things and stuff that uses them can no longer find them.

The reason that some devs use their name for the top level folder is that if they are releasing multiple mods that share assets, or DLLs, or whatever, then it is pretty important that they only have one copy of the file, so the only real sensible solution is to keep all their stuff together.

[Cdr_Zeta]

Hello,

Ya I kind of figured out the O and CO2 useage and vents to air; UGH I spent hours because I figured the unit useages were self contained no matter what; what if there is an atmosphere on another planet; say with percentages of 1/2? Another story for another time maybe...

I still find some duplicate dlls like the mod plugin and toolbar...

As far as licensing we can do whatever we want with the MODS we get so long as we do not post them for others to use; I am having to 'mod' some mods myself in an effort to at least get part of all of the mods I want to work.

Now I am working on the finer details of the life support systems out there - kool stuff !

Cdr Zeta

[Crater]

Hello,

Ya I kind of figured out the O and CO2 useage and vents to air; UGH I spent hours because I figured the unit useages were self contained no matter what; what if there is an atmosphere on another planet; say with percentages of 1/2? Another story for another time maybe...

I still find some duplicate dlls like the mod plugin and toolbar...

As far as licensing we can do whatever we want with the MODS we get so long as we do not post them for others to use; I am having to 'mod' some mods myself in an effort to at least get part of all of the mods I want to work.

Now I am working on the finer details of the life support systems out there - kool stuff !

Cdr Zeta

The only other body with oxygen in the atmosphere is Laythe, which also has toxic components so you cannot breathe it straight - there is a filter part that allows you to extract breathable oxygen from it and replenish your tanks though.

As for doing what you want with mods provided you don't distribute them, you are quite correct that in general that isn't a problem. What is a problem is when people alter a mod, e.g. by moving files, and then report the breakage in the forums, or ask for help getting things working when they actually would work if they hadn't fiddled. So yes, you can do anything you like, but if you do so, expect to be pretty much on your own getting it working.

Regarding duplicates of Module Manager and Toolbar dlls - that's exactly my point about leaving files where they are put by the developers. Modulemanager_x_y_x.dll should ALWAYS be in GameData, and nowhere else, and Toolbar.dll should ALWAYS be in GameData\000_Toolbar and nowhere else. Off hand, I only know of one instance where a mod has included toolbar anywhere else, and that was fixed within a couple of days, and was back in January. I'm never seen anyone put ModuleManager.dll in their own folder since the days that Sarbian took over development of it, and integrated all the features into a single copy.

If you are seeing copies in other places, then either the dev of those mods is distributing them wrong, or you're installing them wrong. In the former case, please let us know which mods it is, so we can get the devs to put them in the correct place and avoid causing crashes and breakages for people.

[somnambulist]

Hello,

As far as licensing we can do whatever we want with the MODS we get so long as we do not post them for others to use; I am having to 'mod' some mods myself in an effort to at least get part of all of the mods I want to work.

Renaming isn't a licensing issues, it's a "this will break" issue. CFG files often contain absolute paths that break when you rename a mod's folder or install it incorrectly.

[landeTLS]

Ok seems no one where interested in answering my question about licensing. If anyone is interested the license is"CC BY-NC-SA" from the tac readme on github terms are here: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/ which means it is allowed to redistribute or distribute modified derivatives of the plugin provided it remains the same license

Edited March 22, 2014 by landeTLS

[magnemoe]

I have an weird issue, suddenly all TAC resources except food got bugged and is NaN.

Show up as empty or full

then clicking on the resource bar they get filled.

its an spacedock used to construct other ships with orbital construction so I wonder if spawning other ships caused it however i did it many times before the problem.

Restarting the game does not solve the problem, it only affect this ship. neither does turning TAC off and on before this.

Any ideas?

[TaranisElsu]

Hi everyone! Wanted to let you know that I am still alive and around. I've been busy with life, but I have not forgotten my mods and will try to have some new stuff in time for 0.24. Hopefully...

I will respond to more of the recent comments soon. Thank you to everyone who has been answering questions.

I have an weird issue, suddenly all TAC resources except food got bugged and is NaN.

Show up as empty or full

http://i.imgur.com/uh3F2eq.png

then clicking on the resource bar they get filled.

http://i.imgur.com/ER9zAy7.png

its an spacedock used to construct other ships with orbital construction so I wonder if spawning other ships caused it however i did it many times before the problem.

Restarting the game does not solve the problem, it only affect this ship. neither does turning TAC off and on before this.

Any ideas?

Please see my reply on your other thread: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/73461-TAC-life-suport-NaN-bug?p=1041348&viewfull=1#post1041348

[InfinityArch]

So Taranis, have you looked into getting a modeler to give the TAC parts better models? IMHO that's this mod's biggest weakness; the parts look really out of place with both stock and modded stuff.

[theSpeare]

Hey, I'm not sure if it's already been mentioned but is electricity recharge taken into account while off-focus (and while we're at it, recharge of other ones such as oxygen recycling etc)?

[TerLoki]

Hey, I'm not sure if it's already been mentioned but is electricity recharge taken into account while off-focus (and while we're at it, recharge of other ones such as oxygen recycling etc)?

I don't know about the other ones, but electricity definitely does not. If you plan on having multiple crewed flights running simultaneously I'd suggest using KAS to schedule check-ins so your charge will reset, and pack LOTS of batteries.

[Daishi]

So Taranis, have you looked into getting a modeler to give the TAC parts better models? IMHO that's this mod's biggest weakness; the parts look really out of place with both stock and modded stuff.

We're giving it a go