[1.0.5] TAC Life Support v0.11.2.1 [12Dec]

[Starstrider42]

The ElectricityMaxDeltaTime is set to 1 to effectively disallow consuming electricity while the vessel is unloaded. I had to do that because none of the electrical generators -- solar panels, RTG's, etc -- function while the vessel is unloaded so the vessel would quickly run out of electricity, the recyclers would stop functioning, and all your Kerbals would die .

It would be nice if this bit were documented in the first post or somewhere equally prominent. For a while, I was panicking thinking I had to check in on my space station once a day because the mod seemed to assume it was running on battery power alone. Since I never got a confident answer to my post about it earlier in the thread, I can only assume other players were also confused about how electricity works with TAC.

[toadicus]

Taranis, would it be possible to fix the "time remaining" values to incorporate the influence of recyclers? It'd be really useful for planning long missions to have an at-a-glance look at how long you really have, considering something like 80-90% of your resources will be recycled.

Thanks!

[Starstrider42]

Also, is there a way to disable life support monitoring for a particular vessel? I've got a Mun lander whose crew all died (for non-TAC related reasons). I'd like to keep the abandoned lander in the game as a debris object, but it's cluttering up the TAC display.

[kiwiak]

Please don't. I love TAC, but it and several other mods with storage containers have already bloated my VAB parts list. Adding even more variants will just make the game needlessly complex (i.e., it takes forever to find the specific part you want) without really adding much to the gameplay.

For the love of god, install part catalog.

Its hopeless without it.

[kiwiak]

From the testing that I have done, this works fine in 0.23.5/ARM.

There is one caveat though: be careful using time warp in the Space Center and Tracking Station scenes. There is no Monitoring Window to alert you that a ship is running low on supplies and it will not stop time warp when supplies become low or run out. Consumption is still calculated the next time the ship is loaded, just it's not showing the status in those scenes.

roger that.

but do you plan to add some proper warning system in next update?

[Starstrider42]

For the love of god, install part catalog.

Its hopeless without it.

The second part of my argument still applies: what do four variants of "80 Kerbal-day food canister" (for example), differing only in volume, actually get you in gameplay terms?

[kiwiak]

The second part of my argument still applies: what do four variants of "80 Kerbal-day food canister" (for example), differing only in volume, actually get you in gameplay terms?

you dont have to add over 9000 parts.

this can be taken care by tweakables, like in godspeed rocket parts.

[Solestis]

I really like this mod, but it always annoyed me that the parts from this mod generally seemed out of place when used in conjunction with stock parts. So I used some of squad's models and retextured them to make more stock-like lifesupport modules. =)

Don't know if I'm allowed to share them as I dont know what the rules on that are. I used squad's stock models and only altered the stock textures slightly. If it turns out I can share them I'll happily do if ppl want them.

[kiwiak]

These are actually nice. But i woudl change food container color, it is nearly the sme as stock rcs fuel.

maybe bit darker brown?

[Solestis]

Yeah I changed it a bit now, made it more the same color as the "Food" text on the part. Its more of an orange now.

[kiwiak]

now some radial tanks using this model

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Stratus-V_Cylindrified_Monopropellant_Tank

and it woudl be complete.

[somnambulist]

now some radial tanks using this model

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Stratus-V_Cylindrified_Monopropellant_Tank

and it woudl be complete.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/66479-23-Somnambulic-Aerospace-Life-Support-Parts-0-0-1-%2818-Jan%29

Haven't had time to do anything with this project, but the radial tanks work.

[Paul Kingtiger]

now some radial tanks using this model

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Stratus-V_Cylindrified_Monopropellant_Tank

and it woudl be complete.

I have some radial tanks completed but not sure if I can release as they use stock models (information is hazy on if this is allowed, people do it all other the place, but official the EULA says no)

Anyway I've asked for clarification and if it'll allowed I'll release them.

We're also planning to create some new radial tanks from scratch for the Universal Storage mod I'm creating with Daishi.

[smunisto]

So wait, it does support vessels that are not on focus now? They consume resources? Just no warning for when their resources are low, right?

[Crater]

So wait, it does support vessels that are not on focus now? They consume resources? Just no warning for when their resources are low, right?

Yes, Yes, and no - you only don't get warning at the Space Center or the Tracking Station. If you are controlling a differnet vessel you will get warnings about any / all vessels.

[smunisto]

Oh, I have missed so much. Been subscribed to this mod's thread ever since it was posted, but didn't follow the discussion.

Going to download it now.

I really like this mod, but it always annoyed me that the parts from this mod generally seemed out of place when used in conjunction with stock parts. So I used some of squad's models and retextured them to make more stock-like lifesupport modules. =)

~image

Don't know if I'm allowed to share them as I dont know what the rules on that are. I used squad's stock models and only altered the stock textures slightly. If it turns out I can share them I'll happily do if ppl want them.

Please do share. P.M. works too.

Edited April 4, 2014 by smunisto

[psyper]

I have some radial tanks completed but not sure if I can release as they use stock models (information is hazy on if this is allowed, people do it all other the place, but official the EULA says no)

Anyway I've asked for clarification and if it'll allowed I'll release them.

http://www.kingtiger.co.uk/kingtiger/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/screenshot31.jpg

We're also planning to create some new radial tanks from scratch for the Universal Storage mod I'm creating with Daishi.

Those are awesome and i'm wondering if I can add them to the generic tanks I've made available for modders here:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/71204-Psyper-Multipurpose-Tanks-Co

Word on the licencing is that we are allowed to use stock parts and retexture them and squad are planning to update the EULA to this effect when they eventually get round to it. I've been using retextured stock for a while now and haven't hit a snag - even got 'official' okay in this thread:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/69178-Stock-Part-licencing

[DomDiaemus]

I have some radial tanks completed but not sure if I can release as they use stock models (information is hazy on if this is allowed, people do it all other the place, but official the EULA says no)

Anyway I've asked for clarification and if it'll allowed I'll release them.

We're also planning to create some new radial tanks from scratch for the Universal Storage mod I'm creating with Daishi.

What about increase the values for cabin/labs/other parts (or just add a very tiny box which once radial attached to an existing vanilla part - states this vanilla part contains X of XPTO tanks internally - you won't believe it then remove the paneling) as if all those radial tanks are in fact embedded inside and not external visible.

I used your initial parts but always used to add them inside existing vanilla/mod parts (so not to be visible externally) and really would be nice to have this option available... so would save on number of parts and visibility (cosmetics). Coz what matters is the sense of vital resources consumption and results once they ran out. Anyway my 2 cents and here is one example:

All the large/medium parts of this module (recycling/water/O2/waste/food) are hidden inside the command ship section (hidden behind the solar panels). It would be awesome giving an option of not needing to stack oversize parts in/onto just to make this works. Cheers

[Daishi]

All the large/medium parts of this module (recycling/water/O2/waste/food) are hidden inside the command ship section (hidden behind the solar panels). It would be awesome giving an option of not needing to stack oversize parts in/onto just to make this works. Cheers

Would you be interested in our modular inline segments then? TAC containers are in development

Edited April 4, 2014 by Daishi
Shameless plug :P

[DomDiaemus]

Would you be interested in our modular inline segments then? TAC containers are in development

Cheers Daishi, it is indeed an interesting concept (I'm sorry I haven't read it yet so my apology for my lack of knowledge about it). But it seem an awesome idea if it could also include the fuel+mono and not just be focused on the "vital" resources for kerbal's life. Which could mean replace existing vanilla tank parts with modded ones.

Otherwise just pickup the vanilla tank+cabin parts and adapt the config to include the "vital resources" assuming the tanks are embedded (despite not being visible) would do.

Update: Just had a read through on the dev post. The downside is it will increase the number of parts considerably and still wouldn't provide 1 tank for all needs. I mean you got the pic of a moon command module and its inside tanks, the modular solution won't respond to that since it would act as add on of an tank; so the answer would be adding a fuel tank+your multiple tank approach. Where as adapting existing vanilla tank and adding all the needing config values would keep things simpler... the downside is no visual (modded) parts but reduced number of parts. So all but just one/two vanilla tank parts (for long trips).

Edited April 4, 2014 by DomDiaemus

[CaptainKipard]

Could you change your resource consumption rates to use 1 hour instead of 24 hours or seconds? It's easier to calculate things that way, plus ARM changes what 1 day is.

[Hotblack Desiato]

how about adding a 3.75m and maybe even a 5m supply can?

by the way, I played around with tac ls and part welding in 0.23. the radially connected tanks are a bit buggy (at part welding) but the stack-canisters work just fine. I fused a part that contains 2 2.5m SAS modules, a 2.5m command module, 2 4k batteries, the large RCS tank and 10 large LS-containers. having a command module that contains 6400 units of all supplies, aswell as a nice amount of RCS fuel, and a crapton of power, and together with 2 dockingports, 4 solarpanels and 8 rcs thrusters that is just 15 parts, and yet it is a fully capable supply transporter, that is a command module aswell.

[CoolBeer]

Changing TACLS over to using liters isn't that hard actually(using kilograms for food, as it makes more sense in my opinion):

-Change the resource definition to reflect the new units:

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
name = Food
density = 0.001
flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
transfer = PUMP
isTweakable = true
}
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
name = Oxygen
density = 0.0000014290
flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
transfer = PUMP
isTweakable = true
}
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
name = Water
density = 0.001
flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
transfer = PUMP
isTweakable = true
}
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
name = CarbonDioxide
density = 0.00000184212
flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
transfer = PUMP
}
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
name = Waste
density = 0.001
flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
transfer = PUMP
}
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
name = WasteWater
density = 0.001
flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
transfer = PUMP
}

-Add aditional ModuleManager file to change parts over to new units:

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand]]:Final
{
@RESOURCE[Food]
{
@amount *= 0.317
@maxAmount *= 0.317
}
@RESOURCE[Water]
{
@amount *= 1.798
@maxAmount *= 1.798
}
@RESOURCE[Oxygen]
{
@amount *= 304.27
@maxAmount *= 304.27
}
@RESOURCE[CarbonDioxide]
{
@maxAmount *= 261.78
}
@RESOURCE[Waste]
{
@maxAmount *= 0.56
}
@RESOURCE[WasteWater]
{
@maxAmount *= 1.98
}
}

@PART[Tac*]
{
@RESOURCE[Food]
{
@amount *= 0.317
@maxAmount *= 0.317
}
@RESOURCE[Water]
{
@amount *= 1.798
@maxAmount *= 1.798
}
@RESOURCE[Oxygen]
{
@amount *= 304.27
@maxAmount *= 304.27
}
@RESOURCE[CarbonDioxide]
{
@maxAmount *= 261.78
}
@RESOURCE[Waste]
{
@maxAmount *= 0.56
}
@RESOURCE[WasteWater]
{
@maxAmount *= 1.98
}
}

@PART[HexCan*]
{
@RESOURCE[Food]
{
@amount *= 0.317
@maxAmount *= 0.317
}
@RESOURCE[Water]
{
@amount *= 1.798
@maxAmount *= 1.798
}
@RESOURCE[Oxygen]
{
@amount *= 304.27
@maxAmount *= 304.27
}
@RESOURCE[CarbonDioxide]
{
@maxAmount *= 261.78
}
@RESOURCE[Waste]
{
@maxAmount *= 0.56
}
@RESOURCE[WasteWater]
{
@maxAmount *= 1.98
}
}

@PART[TacAirFilter]
{
@MODULE[TacGenericConverter]
{
@outputResources = Oxygen, 304.27, false
}
}

@PART[TacCarbonExtractor*]
{
@MODULE[TacGenericConverter]
{
@inputResources = CarbonDioxide, 261.78, ElectricCharge, 1000
@outputResources = Oxygen, 273.843, false, Waste, 1.24208, true
}
}

@PART[TacWaterSplitter]
{
@MODULE[TacGenericConverter]
{
@inputResources = Water, 1, ElectricCharge, 100
@outputResources = Oxygen, 3126.4, false, Waste, 3.581, true
}
}

@PART[TacWaterPurifier*]
{
@MODULE[TacGenericConverter]
{
@inputResources = WasteWater, 1.98, ElectricCharge, 1000
@outputResources = Water, 1.6182, false, Waste, 6.382, true
}
}

-Change default consumption values in GameData\ThunderAerospace\TacLifeSupport\PluginData\TacLifeSupport\LifeSupport.cfg

(This step is needed because you can't input decimals in the ingame TAC consumption editor(or at least I failed at it)).

GlobalSettings
{
MaxDeltaTime = 86400
ElectricityMaxDeltaTime = 1
FoodResource = Food
WaterResource = Water
OxygenResource = Oxygen
CarbonDioxideResource = CarbonDioxide
WasteResource = Waste
WasteWaterResource = WasteWater
FoodConsumptionRate = 0.32
WaterConsumptionRate = 1.798
OxygenConsumptionRate = 304.27
ElectricityConsumptionRate = 1200
BaseElectricityConsumptionRate = 2400
EvaElectricityConsumptionRate = 200
CO2ProductionRate = 261.78
WasteProductionRate = 0.56
WasteWaterProductionRate = 1.98
DefaultResourceAmount = 86400
EvaDefaultResourceAmount = 43200
MaxTimeWithoutFood = 2592000
MaxTimeWithoutWater = 259200
MaxTimeWithoutOxygen = 7200
MaxTimeWithoutElectricity = 7200
}

NOTE: Some of the items in the ModuleManager file needs the latest version of ModuleManager(2.0.1 at the time of writing) for the math functions which reduce the file size quite a bit. *LINK*

WARNING: This is hardly tested for more than a few minutes in total, I might have messed up horribly and would advice backups of saves and whatnot before commencing.

I claim no warranty or responsibility if this breaks your game, on the other hand feel free to do whatever with the information/configs as you please.

Hopefully I got all the numbers correct.

Dropbox download with the files shown: *LINK*

(TaranisElsu: If you feel I'm stepping too much on your turf, please let me know and we'll work out something).

-

Kolbjorn

[Guest]

Changing TACLS over to using liters isn't that hard actually(using kilograms for food, as it makes more sense in my opinion):

-Change the resource definition to reflect the new units:

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
name = Food
density = 0.001
flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
transfer = PUMP
isTweakable = true
}
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
name = Oxygen
density = 0.0000014290
flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
transfer = PUMP
isTweakable = true
}
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
name = Water
density = 0.001
flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
transfer = PUMP
isTweakable = true
}
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
name = CarbonDioxide
density = 0.00000184212
flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
transfer = PUMP
}
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
name = Waste
density = 0.001
flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
transfer = PUMP
}
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
name = WasteWater
density = 0.001
flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
transfer = PUMP
}

-Add aditional ModuleManager file to change parts over to new units:

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand]]:Final
{
@RESOURCE[Food]
{
@amount *= 0.317
@maxAmount *= 0.317
}
@RESOURCE[Water]
{
@amount *= 1.798
@maxAmount *= 1.798
}
@RESOURCE[Oxygen]
{
@amount *= 304.27
@maxAmount *= 304.27
}
@RESOURCE[CarbonDioxide]
{
@maxAmount *= 261.78
}
@RESOURCE[Waste]
{
@maxAmount *= 0.56
}
@RESOURCE[WasteWater]
{
@maxAmount *= 1.98
}
}

@PART[Tac*]
{
@RESOURCE[Food]
{
@amount *= 0.317
@maxAmount *= 0.317
}
@RESOURCE[Water]
{
@amount *= 1.798
@maxAmount *= 1.798
}
@RESOURCE[Oxygen]
{
@amount *= 304.27
@maxAmount *= 304.27
}
@RESOURCE[CarbonDioxide]
{
@maxAmount *= 261.78
}
@RESOURCE[Waste]
{
@maxAmount *= 0.56
}
@RESOURCE[WasteWater]
{
@maxAmount *= 1.98
}
}

@PART[HexCan*]
{
@RESOURCE[Food]
{
@amount *= 0.317
@maxAmount *= 0.317
}
@RESOURCE[Water]
{
@amount *= 1.798
@maxAmount *= 1.798
}
@RESOURCE[Oxygen]
{
@amount *= 304.27
@maxAmount *= 304.27
}
@RESOURCE[CarbonDioxide]
{
@maxAmount *= 261.78
}
@RESOURCE[Waste]
{
@maxAmount *= 0.56
}
@RESOURCE[WasteWater]
{
@maxAmount *= 1.98
}
}

@PART[TacAirFilter]
{
@MODULE[TacGenericConverter]
{
@outputResources = Oxygen, 304.27, false
}
}

@PART[TacCarbonExtractor*]
{
@MODULE[TacGenericConverter]
{
@inputResources = CarbonDioxide, 261.78, ElectricCharge, 1000
@outputResources = Oxygen, 273.843, false, Waste, 1.24208, true
}
}

@PART[TacWaterSplitter]
{
@MODULE[TacGenericConverter]
{
@inputResources = Water, 1, ElectricCharge, 100
@outputResources = Oxygen, 3126.4, false, Waste, 3.581, true
}
}

@PART[TacWaterPurifier*]
{
@MODULE[TacGenericConverter]
{
@inputResources = WasteWater, 1.98, ElectricCharge, 1000
@outputResources = Water, 1.6182, false, Waste, 6.382, true
}
}

-Change default consumption values in GameData\ThunderAerospace\TacLifeSupport\PluginData\TacLifeSupport\LifeSupport.cfg

(This step is needed because you can't input decimals in the ingame TAC consumption editor(or at least I failed at it)).

GlobalSettings
{
MaxDeltaTime = 86400
ElectricityMaxDeltaTime = 1
FoodResource = Food
WaterResource = Water
OxygenResource = Oxygen
CarbonDioxideResource = CarbonDioxide
WasteResource = Waste
WasteWaterResource = WasteWater
FoodConsumptionRate = 0.32
WaterConsumptionRate = 1.798
OxygenConsumptionRate = 304.27
ElectricityConsumptionRate = 1200
BaseElectricityConsumptionRate = 2400
EvaElectricityConsumptionRate = 200
CO2ProductionRate = 261.78
WasteProductionRate = 0.56
WasteWaterProductionRate = 1.98
DefaultResourceAmount = 86400
EvaDefaultResourceAmount = 43200
MaxTimeWithoutFood = 2592000
MaxTimeWithoutWater = 259200
MaxTimeWithoutOxygen = 7200
MaxTimeWithoutElectricity = 7200
}

NOTE: Some of the items in the ModuleManager file needs the latest version of ModuleManager(2.0.1 at the time of writing) for the math functions which reduce the file size quite a bit. *LINK*

WARNING: This is hardly tested for more than a few minutes in total, I might have messed up horribly and would advice backups of saves and whatnot before commencing.

I claim no warranty or responsibility if this breaks your game, on the other hand feel free to do whatever with the information/configs as you please.

Hopefully I got all the numbers correct.

Dropbox download with the files shown: *LINK*

(TaranisElsu: If you feel I'm stepping too much on your turf, please let me know and we'll work out something).

-

Kolbjorn

Seeing as all the other stuff is SI (metric) this makes 100% sense. We should make increasing efforts to remove all "imperial measurements" from KSP mods

[Shan_aman]

Loving this mod, thanks for all the hard work you have put into it.

I did several searches through the thread but could not find anything on the issue I have seen with TAC. I have noticed that with an active vehicle that is undergoing time warp, electric consumption rates stop increasing after 50X. So with zero solar panels I can fly a 38 day mission on 8hrs of battery life and only use 1 hrs worth of electricity. Also the life support consumption seems off since on the same 38 day mission I only use 10 days worth of life support items.

I know there are some things that were done for inactive ships to keep them from running out of power since power generation would not work, but this was on a vessel that I kept active the entire time.

I apologize if this was covered somewhere in this thread and I missed it.

Thanks.