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Kerbin Mini Shuttle

helldiver

By helldiver
in KSP1 Mod Development

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ZRM

ZRM

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When the shuttle lands, will it need a parachute for braking, or are the onboard brakes good enough to land on the runway?

Using a parachute for braking is not an option right now, as the KSP parachute module automatically "deletes" the parachute once you touch the ground. Anyway, the brakes are good enough right now.

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Torminator

Torminator

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Using a parachute for braking is not an option right now, as the KSP parachute module automatically "deletes" the parachute once you touch the ground. Anyway, the brakes are good enough right now.

Sounds like I've found a new first project idea... How hard could it be?

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helldiver

helldiver

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I can make an optional parachute box that can attach to the base of the rudder (or anywhere you wish to put it).

However, you guys will have to wait until phase 2.

Also, some of you guys are going way too into Simulation territory, and forget this is for KSP which is a bit arcadish. Things like a split air-brake rudder, drogue chute, spoilers, and so on is taking things too far. I was debating fully modeling the wing with a fully functional stabilator, spoiler, aileron, and elevon system like real airliners/space shuttle uses, but it's just a bit much.

Also, I'm not quite clear as to whether or not KSP takes into account such physics. We have to remember that KSP isn't XPlane or FSX with a proper aerodynamic model.

Edited by helldiver
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BostLabs

BostLabs

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Wow! Howi managed to miss this thread for so long is beyond me. Gimme, gimme, gimme! Please note this this is not a request to rush things. I will be here when you've finished your wonderful work of art. You guys should be commended. I foresee much use of this baby in my Space Program. Awesome, just awesome!

Edited by BostLabs
I want my editor back please.
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Thesonicgalaxy

Thesonicgalaxy

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Using a parachute for braking is not an option right now, as the KSP parachute module automatically "deletes" the parachute once you touch the ground. Anyway, the brakes are good enough right now.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/36835-WIP-Plugin-Braking-Parachutes-0-1-modelers-needed

There ya go. Someone made this a while back.

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Torminator

Torminator

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Also, I'm not quite clear as to whether or not KSP takes into account such physics. We have to remember that KSP isn't XPlane or FSX with a proper aerodynamic model.

Knowing the attention to detail Ferram puts into his work, FAR most likely does.

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ZRM

ZRM

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Great! Thanks for that. I'd always been amazed that no one had yet made such a mod. I had it on my to-do list. Now I know it exists. After the first KSO release (since, as I said, the brakes work well enough), I will look into adding this to the shuttle.

By the way, the shuttle has recently performed its first successful ascent, orbital insertion, deorbit, re-entry and precision landing on the KSC runway. The ascent used a launch vehicle consisting of the EFT and LRBs you have seen previously, and played out very much like a Space Shuttle launch. The shuttle circularised at 80 Km. Re-entry was achieved at a constant pitch of 10 degrees (though a higher pitch would probably be more realistic). The landing worked first time, touching down on the dotted line at 192mph and braking well before the end of the runway. No parts malfunctioned or broke, and no debris were left in orbit. Sorry, I have no screenshots - I was concentrating too much. KCA worked well throughout the flight, balancing the engine thrusts at all stages of the launch, and orienting the shuttle in orbit using RCS.

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hoodedarche0

hoodedarche0

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What a great thing to hear that the shuttle design is proceeding at a nice clip. From one team to another keep up the great work! I am definately including this shuttle upon release into my KSP arsenal. Heck might even attempt to land it on our carriers just for funsies!

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ZRM

ZRM

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ZRM, now that it's flying, could you tell us (or give an approximation) how much dV it has?

I could, but there would not be much point, as the current fuel load and LRB engine arrangement is temporary. As such any dV I come up with (which would require me to go and add KER or MJ to the installation) would likely be quite different from the final value, which is what you're really interested in. An LRB currently does not come with an engine of its own - for the time being I am using stock Mainsail engines, which are a bit too powerful and thirsty. Similarly, an SSME is currently equivalent in ISP and power to an LV -T45, and an OMS engine is equivalent to an LV-909. This is very likely to change significantly. The current configurations are just to get everything in the right ballpark (in some cases a very large ballpark) whilst features are added so that they can be tested. Once we reach the feature-complete stage I will focus entirely on balancing all the stats, including the dV. The final system will very likely be reliant on Modular Fuel System for H2/O2 in the main tank supplying the SSMEs, and LF/O in the orbiter supplying the OMSEs. The engine stats will be changed to reflect their fuel input. I will also be basing the fuel amounts on volumes within the parts.

Anyway, here's a few screenshots for you all.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Edit: By the way, the crew count is temporary. I have yet to put the other two Kerbals in.

Edited by ZRM
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Maxilica

Maxilica

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This just looks amazing. There are no real words to describe this. You guys have put a goddamn ton of work into this and I LOVE it! It looks polished and futuristic as B9, as stock as stock and as realistic as BobCat's ISS!

My hat goes off to you, sir. :wink:

Edited by Maxilica
Damn typos!
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ZRM

ZRM

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Hmmm. Will Modular Fuels be necessary? Also, approximately how much dV do you want the shuttle to have in its final state? (Can it be expected to go to LKO, or can it be expected to go to Duna?)

Those screenies look great. I like how the cargo bay looks in the last one.

What I plan to do is make the dV realistic for the design, but playability takes priority if it turns out the design would make some aspects not as fun as they could be. So I will first figure out the volumes of fuel that can be stored in the shuttle, then derive everything else from there, including the required engine thrusts, ISP curves, practical range (which may be interplanetary, Kerbin SOI, or less), etc. I would really like to use Modular Fuel System, since it would force the correct use of the EFT, SSMEs and OMSEs, as well as make the fuel capacity of the EFT realistic (an LF/O EFT would be much smaller than the current one). It would also make for some interesting gameplay regarding any refuelling trips. If you are worrying about any effects MFS would have on other parts, it can easily be restricted to work on only select parts. Also, compatibility with, for example, Kethane, should be straightforward via a combination of Module Manager and the recent improvements Majiir has made to Kethane's extensibility.

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helldiver

helldiver

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That is beyond amazing!

Forgot this image in the last message.

kHms301.jpg

-gimbal range is +- 10.5. I'm ok with 11 or up to 12 if you absolutely have to. The clip isn't that noticeable.

-If the engine overheats, blow up LRB_Nozzle_Base and LRB_Nozzle. If you don't remove both of these you'll reveal LRB_Nozzle_Base which is just filler artwork.

This images look fantastic! Great job!

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helldiver

helldiver

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I just noticed that the Kerbal Cam, is clear, no geometry is intersecting between the kerbal cam and the kerbals. Did you do anything? Did we luck out?

I was afraid that the panel geometry would intersect and you'd see some of it when viewing the kerbals down in the lower right hand corner. :D

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ZRM

ZRM

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Ok. That looks ready to play with! Can we have? Please?

No. Not until it's finished. I'm not releasing something half-baked only for the people that begged for its release to complain about missing features/bugs/glitches/unbalanced gameplay etc. I'm sure Helldiver feels the same.

Amazing work! Just a question, will the SRBs have a separation gimbal feature, that can be used in staging or an action group or something, so that when the SRBs are jettisoned, they fly away of their own accord?

That is very doable, but is something that can probably wait until after the first release, especially if separation motors and an explosive decoupler work well enough, which they seem to be right now.

I just noticed that the Kerbal Cam, is clear, no geometry is intersecting between the kerbal cam and the kerbals. Did you do anything? Did we luck out?

I was afraid that the panel geometry would intersect and you'd see some of it when viewing the kerbals down in the lower right hand corner. :D

Nope, you did not get lucky with the cameras. The original camera positions gave a rather messy view of parts of the dash. Luckily the cameras are customisable, so I moved them up to points on the forward windows in front of each Kerbal, and oriented them and changed the FOV to fit in their heads at this close range. You may notice the slight jaunty angle to it. Normal Kerbal cams fit in the most of the rest of the body as well as the head, but there is no clean way to do that in the confines of this cockpit. The camera positions for the rear two Kerbals should be easier to set up.

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