I`ve hit a brick wall.

[Fishoo]

Okay so I bought the game a week ago. This game doesn't have an easy learning curve, it requires ALOT of trial and error.

Anyway, I managed to go to orbit, from orbit to mun, landed and got back safe and sound.

My problem now is not with the route, or gravity turns, or planning or being able to hit the target or whatever.

My problem is efficiency.

I feel like I hit a god damn unstopable brick wall when I'm creating my rocket.

I don't know how to build a rocket to lift some heavy stuff. I just can't seem to get heavier stuff into orbit.

I'm building a base in the moon, the core is there already, but it's not heavy, I got there with 2 stages left(It was an Aspargus launch stage, then the center of the aspargus, another stage, and the landing stage)

So my route there was nearly perfect.

With the same design, I got other 2 living quarters there.

But now I want to send something a little bit heavier, not much, I don't have the design for the lander because I have made so many and scratched ALOT of them.

But my problem is, my old design can't take them into orbit. When it does, there's not enough fuel to escape orbit or to land in the mun.

So my problem is with fuel/weight/thrust.

I can't seem to find a rocket design to lift something heavier, I'm not trying to lift a whole base off the ground, just something a little heavier.

SOOOOooo

IF ANYONE can help me with a bottom design that can lift heavier stuff, please share, just a pic so I get an idea.

I've tried:

2/4/6 64Jumbo tanks, Aspargus staged. still DeltaV was only like 2,8k ~ 3k anything I would add further would just bump the DeltaV by 30-50.

Combinations of FL-T800/Solid Boosters/FL-T400, in pairs of 4-6 and still, just 3k DeltaV, sometimes less.

It's like if I try to add more fuel, is not cost efficient so it just boosts like 30-40 DeltaV.

If I try to add more thrust, it's too heavy again and not efficient. So just a little DeltaV.

I'm very frustraded because I can't seem to find a design to lift heavier objects.

SO PLEAAASE SAVE MEH.

It's like 3-4 days I'm raging because I either have to make a ****ty rover/base or the gravity and atmosphere will win.

If any of you could give me some tips/designs/crafts/examples or whatever I would REALLY appreciate.

[stupid_chris]

Instead of using only one fuel tank per asparagus and core booster, put two, and put the smallest 2.5m tank under to prevent the mainsail to overheat. This way, each booster is two orange tanks, one small "pancake" tank an a mainsail. You should get much more delta V from this. The best answer to get further is rarely more boosters, but more fuel.

[robot256]

What stupid_chris said. My heavy-lift designs don't have more than five or seven engines on the first stage, but rely on 3.75m sized rockets and fuel tanks from K.W. Rocketry or NovaPunch to pack enough thrust and fuel. A really neat trick I learned from a stock craft is to have radially-staged liquid boosters drop in pairs, where the first tank/engine pair dropped has a fuel line feeding the second tank/engine pair that gets dropped, that has a fuel line feeding the third tank/engine pair that gets dropped, that has a fuel line feeding the central tank. Then the radial stages drop faster, and the remaining tanks are full after you drop each pair, so you expend less fuel lugging half-empty tanks around. Sometimes if I'm really short on thrust right at launch I have to add radial engines, and toggle them at certain times depending on overheating and gravity turns. I've used these techniques to get ~80 ton payloads into orbit consistently, with launch weights only 5 or 6 times that of the payload.

Usually I have a first stage that has a giant engine and a bunch of boosters like that, with about 2-3000 m/s in it. Then the second stage is about 1/4 the size, but with a pretty big engine still, and giving another 3000 m/s is enough to get into orbit and circularize. Then the payload has a transfer stage with nuclear engines, and a lander on top with its own fuel reserve. My big interplanetary flights, though, almost always need refueling before the depart Kerbin orbit, and sometimes I even refuel them en route from a tanker in the same convoy.

Hope this helps.

[Fishoo]

Yeah!

Thank you, both of you =D

I'll be testing this tomorrow as I'm not in my house today.

But thanks for the tips. I'll tell later if it works out =D

[dlmarti]

I feel like I hit a god damn unstopable brick wall when I'm creating my rocket.

Yep, I remember that wall.

Unfortunately its a difficult wall to surmount, but luckily its the last big one.

A few suggestions:

1. Ignore solid boosters for right now, unless your rocket is designed for them from the beginning, they are like a mirage in a desert.

2. Go with more and more liquid stages, until you reach the size you need.

3. If you are lifting fuel tanks for your base or station, lift them empty or include them in the lifting package. Then refuel them in space.

4. RCS is really really heavy, and it doesn't help you get into space. Leave it out of the design, or empty it before launch.

[maccollo]

To maximize lifting capacity there are only 3 things I can think of that are important.

1: Asparagus stage all the way to orbit.

2: Use only mainsails for your assent stage. That will give you maximum lifting capacity to lag ratio (large lifter setups tend to end up with fairly high part counts since you need lots of struts).

3: Make sure you maintain a good thrust to weight ration throughout the accent. I usually do it by having one mainsail with the smallest 2.5 meter fuel tank under the payload. That way the other stacks mostly have to just provide the thrust to lift their own fuel.

I made an example craft for you. It can almost take the 150 ton payload to the moon. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22015656/Heavy%20Lifter.craft

[TMS]

Download and fly.

Best-made and most efficient rockets I've seen on this forum.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/33381

[BigDog]

If you have enough Delta-V to get to orbit your problem is licked. Add a docking port and refuel in orbit before heading for the moon.

Unlike others here I am a big fan of SRBs, mainly just to get big heavy designs moving off the pad, although I have found other uses for them here and there as well.

Try this under the payload. 2 64s on top of each other, 6 more pairs of 2 vertically stacked around this, with Mainsails on the bottom (naturally include some other tank to control overheat between the Mainsails and the Orange tanks. Around this radially attach 6 more of the double orange pairs with Mainsails with fuel lines running from each of these tanks in to the 6 radial inner pairs (onion staging) put the center mainsail to fire when this stage ejects so it will burn the same as the 6 pairs around it. Now to that outer ring of 6 add two more of the pairs radially, each fuel lined into the tank it is attached to, so that in this onion layer there are 12 of the double orange with Mainsail components. If this is not enough, to each of these 12 double orange set ups add 2 of 2 vertically stacked FL-T800s with LV-T30s under each, each of these gets fuel lined into the orange tank they are attached to. Now between each of these FL-T800 stacks radially attach a SRB. That should be more than enough to get what you want into orbit for refueling. I use this set up with a bit more stuff to put a 340 ton Fuel ship into orbit, but since I don't think you are hauling that much stuff to the Mun I left out the other little bits.

I hope this pic from the VAB helps with what I described, it may not be the most efficient design, but it works, also in this pic everything above the stack couplers is payload.

[Spyritdragon]

First tip i can give you is a matter of G-forces. Keep your eye on the G-force meter while going to orbit and keep it from going over 2 G's - aiming to get between 1.5 and 2 is what i do.

Second: Kerbal Engineer Redux. Its a small chip part you can add to your craft that can tell you exactly how much delta-V your different stages have so it's very easy to experiment with.

My mission Duna has a 73 ton payload. Not sure if i needed payload fuel for orbit, but it made it to Duna with plenty of delta-V to spare, carrying a small rover and its skycrane and two small probes. Payload has about 7000m/s of delta-V at launch.

[zarakon]

Rather than building larger and larger lifters, you can also try doing it in multiple launches.

In one launch, put your base payload into orbit.

In another launch, put a craft in orbit that will get your payload into Mun orbit

Of course, that requires you to learn rendezvous and docking, but at least that's a different direction to go in

[Technical Ben]

Yeah... Even a single launched interplanetary craft is doable.

Check this one out for an example:

http://benart.www.idnet.com/StockZenith.craft

[Fishoo]

Yep, I remember that wall.

Unfortunately its a difficult wall to surmount, but luckily its the last big one.

A few suggestions:

1. Ignore solid boosters for right now, unless your rocket is designed for them from the beginning, they are like a mirage in a desert.

2. Go with more and more liquid stages, until you reach the size you need.

3. If you are lifting fuel tanks for your base or station, lift them empty or include them in the lifting package. Then refuel them in space.

4. RCS is really really heavy, and it doesn't help you get into space. Leave it out of the design, or empty it before launch.

Okay thanks for the tips, the RCS thing I've noticed already, I only use it to maneuver in space faster and to control the descent into the mun =D

To maximize lifting capacity there are only 3 things I can think of that are important.

1: Asparagus stage all the way to orbit.

2: Use only mainsails for your assent stage. That will give you maximum lifting capacity to lag ratio (large lifter setups tend to end up with fairly high part counts since you need lots of struts).

3: Make sure you maintain a good thrust to weight ration throughout the accent. I usually do it by having one mainsail with the smallest 2.5 meter fuel tank under the payload. That way the other stacks mostly have to just provide the thrust to lift their own fuel.

I made an example craft for you. It can almost take the 150 ton payload to the moon. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22015656/Heavy%20Lifter.craft

Thanks for the craft, I'll be testing it now =D

Download and fly.

Best-made and most efficient rockets I've seen on this forum.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/33381

WOW !! Thanks !! I'll use that to make my own models =D

If you have enough Delta-V to get to orbit your problem is licked. Add a docking port and refuel in orbit before heading for the moon.

Unlike others here I am a big fan of SRBs, mainly just to get big heavy designs moving off the pad, although I have found other uses for them here and there as well.

Try this under the payload. 2 64s on top of each other, 6 more pairs of 2 vertically stacked around this, with Mainsails on the bottom (naturally include some other tank to control overheat between the Mainsails and the Orange tanks. Around this radially attach 6 more of the double orange pairs with Mainsails with fuel lines running from each of these tanks in to the 6 radial inner pairs (onion staging) put the center mainsail to fire when this stage ejects so it will burn the same as the 6 pairs around it. Now to that outer ring of 6 add two more of the pairs radially, each fuel lined into the tank it is attached to, so that in this onion layer there are 12 of the double orange with Mainsail components. If this is not enough, to each of these 12 double orange set ups add 2 of 2 vertically stacked FL-T800s with LV-T30s under each, each of these gets fuel lined into the orange tank they are attached to. Now between each of these FL-T800 stacks radially attach a SRB. That should be more than enough to get what you want into orbit for refueling. I use this set up with a bit more stuff to put a 340 ton Fuel ship into orbit, but since I don't think you are hauling that much stuff to the Mun I left out the other little bits.

I hope this pic from the VAB helps with what I described, it may not be the most efficient design, but it works, also in this pic everything above the stack couplers is payload.

Okaaay ! That thing is HUGEE D=*

I love it HAHAHA

First tip i can give you is a matter of G-forces. Keep your eye on the G-force meter while going to orbit and keep it from going over 2 G's - aiming to get between 1.5 and 2 is what i do.

Second: Kerbal Engineer Redux. Its a small chip part you can add to your craft that can tell you exactly how much delta-V your different stages have so it's very easy to experiment with.

My mission Duna has a 73 ton payload. Not sure if i needed payload fuel for orbit, but it made it to Duna with plenty of delta-V to spare, carrying a small rover and its skycrane and two small probes. Payload has about 7000m/s of delta-V at launch.

Yeah I'm using Kerbal Engineer Redux. And thanks alot for the G-Force, I didn't knew that, my rockets were getting like 4-6G.

Rather than building larger and larger lifters, you can also try doing it in multiple launches.

In one launch, put your base payload into orbit.

In another launch, put a craft in orbit that will get your payload into Mun orbit

Of course, that requires you to learn rendezvous and docking, but at least that's a different direction to go in

Yeah, I though of that, that should work great for bigger rockets, but mine was a simple one.

But what I though of doing was like, 3 or 4 rockets, 1 carrying a rover, 1 carrying the core base, and one carrying fuel and the other one the engine+fuel. And assemble them all in orbit and head to some random planet. But that will take time to plan xD

Thanks alot guys !!

Great support from you, i'm feeling loved =D

[Fishoo]

Thanks ALOT

[Xeldrak]

Also, why don't you post a picture of your launcher? Maybe we could help with your design...

[Kinglet]

My answer is more boosters, efficient, big and liquid fueled boosters.

[Blake Gates]

Instead of using only one fuel tank per asparagus and core booster, put two, and put the smallest 2.5m tank under to prevent the mainsail to overheat. This way, each booster is two orange tanks, one small "pancake" tank an a mainsail. You should get much more delta V from this. The best answer to get further is rarely more boosters, but more fuel.

Stupid_Chris, what do you mean by the part I've bolded here? Two orange tanks stacked on top of each other which are what? 3.75m? And then put a "pancake" style tank of 2.5m directly under to attach the Main Sail to? I'm curious as to how this prevents overheating... If this is the case, I have some re-engineering to do! Lol

[stupid_chris]

No, the stock orange tanks are 2.5m wide,, the only two stock sizes are 1.25m and 2.5m.

Now for the overheating parts, it comes from a bug in how heat is generated and distributed in the game. Basically, a part attached to another part that generates heat will be able to absorb some of that heat that's being generated. Now, the weird part comes from how it works: The closer to the other part's CoM the heat generating part is, the more that other part will be able to drain heat. In other words, when you stick a mainsail under an orange tank, the CoM of the orange tank (the part it's attached to) is very far from the mainsail, so, heat is very poorly absorbed by the orange tank, and the mainsail will overheat at 2/3 throttle. However, if you stick the X200-8 (the pancake tank) under the last orange tank, and attach the mainsail to it, the fuel tank's CoM is directly next to the mainsail, and you'll be able to run the mainsail at full throttle without an ounce of overheat. It's weird, but it works, and barely affects your design usually.

[doggie015]

I have a launcher design that can easily get over 100 tons into a 100km LKO using seven mainsails in the first stage with asparagus staging (The core is fully fueled when the outer stages separate). Was able to fly an unmanned "surveyor" lander to Duna with heaps of fuel to spare! (The core stage can be used as a kerbin departure stage with lighter payloads as well!)

The philosophy is easy: Keep it Simple!

[AmpsterMan]

Also OP, please remember that there IS a sort of soft upper limit to how much mass you can send into orbit. This [thread=33381]thread[/thread] by Temstar shows some nice advanced techniques with some very good explanations from same. you should check it out if you get the chance.

[Blake Gates]

No, the stock orange tanks are 2.5m wide,, the only two stock sizes are 1.25m and 2.5m.

Now for the overheating parts, it comes from a bug in how heat is generated and distributed in the game. Basically, a part attached to another part that generates heat will be able to absorb some of that heat that's being generated. Now, the weird part comes from how it works: The closer to the other part's CoM the heat generating part is, the more that other part will be able to drain heat. In other words, when you stick a mainsail under an orange tank, the CoM of the orange tank (the part it's attached to) is very far from the mainsail, so, heat is very poorly absorbed by the orange tank, and the mainsail will overheat at 2/3 throttle. However, if you stick the X200-8 (the pancake tank) under the last orange tank, and attach the mainsail to it, the fuel tank's CoM is directly next to the mainsail, and you'll be able to run the mainsail at full throttle without an ounce of overheat. It's weird, but it works, and barely affects your design usually.

Thank you very much for the clarification Chris. Much appreciated!

[Pyromaniacal]

I was actually about to recommend the Zenith Rocket family. Failing any of those, he has the Supernova, capable of lifting 150 tons to LKO. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/28409-0-19-1-Supernova-SHLLV-160-tons-to-LKO

[Amoun]

This....is an amazing thread.

This is something I was struggling with.

There are two solid boosters which I really like (the ones that came with NovaPunch...they are white, thing and long and have a NASA look-alike logo on them which were used on the sides of a space shuttle launcher (just got the game... don't judge lol) and I would, pretty much always, go overboard when it comes to detail on the ship and create these elaborte designs which I would want to get to the Mun etc....but I would almost always throw on more solid boosters because I would almost always run out of fuel trying to get to the Mun.

I have been experimenting with different engines and stages to get as efficient as possible and I do like to have extra fuel always.

This thread helped me out a lot. I am giving rep to you guys. The link to the launch vehicles also helps because it gives me an idea for combinations as before it was pretty much "Well, that didnt take off....bigger engines!" "well...that ran out of fuel quickly....more boosters!" and I end up having a giant floor of rockets lifting something tiny...