Goodbye MechJeb! (A farewell rant.)

[msyblade]

I'm sure the guys that have been around have seen this happen before.

I've read about it, but I'm here to tell you MJ junkies: It's TRUE.

So I picked up the game 3-4 months ago, and sucked. No, really, I mean I was terrible at it. The joy of the game was measured only by how spectacularly (or quickly) I failed a mission. I was able to achieve stable orbit (elliptical) and maybe intercept (crash a kerbal into) the mun. Then I found MechJeb, and *click* it worked.

Well, inevitably the cookie jar was open, and i couldn't help myself. (read that analogy here, I think.) I apparently paid attention, even tho I remember it more as:

1.*click* Jool

2.minimize to read messages while making a sandwich.

3. *click* land.

4. End mission and grab another rocket.

5. *Click* Moho. (you see where this is going.)

Fast forward to .21 update. Playing stock, with a new save, from scratch. I know I suck, but now I'm gonna blow up on pretty new surfaces. I used some premade stock stuff, and couldnt keep it pointed upwards for anything, even with the new SAS system (and yeah, i was ready to blame it on that). I removed all of the references of MJ from my favorite craft file in my old save, and it loaded up just fine. So, this is where it gets interesting. I launch, and it stays perfectly straight. I move and the SAS stabilizes it, exactly where i would expect it to. I pull off an absolutely perfect ascent, watch my apoapsis, and prograde burn to curcularize my orbit, at the exact altitude I wanted. I make a maneuver node to intercept the Mun, and nail it. Circularize my orbit at 30k, split my landers (2 of em, manned) in an identical orbit, and proceed to land the first. Perfect landing, a bit off from where i was aiming, but gorgeous touchdown. Switched to the second lander, and created a node above the first one, retrograded and tweaked it a little to hit smack on my other module, and landed 640m away from it. I was stunned.

Of course I was up way too late pulling this off, and went to bed with Orbital mechanics pervading all of my thoughts/dreams. The nex day I decided to aim higher and launched another mission to Duna, freehand. It was a bit more difficult obtaining and tweaking the intercept, but I was able to land both landers, 297m away this time. One of the landers even remained upright! (The other lost a leg while I learned about horizontal velocity in a low G environment *cough*). Anyway, to make a long story long, MJ taught me how the orbital mechanics are to be used in the game. It taught me how to fly, so I guess I wont be needing it anymore.

Sorry for the rant, proceed.

[Benie]

Look. It's fine that you stopped using MechJeb. No one's against you on that. So we don't need these kind of threads, as they cause rants.

Some of us use MechJeb as guidance. I need it to keep my rage level down, as I get very.... moody when it comes to, not getting what I want to see happening everytime.

So again, please stop thinking you're making a difference by showing the world you've "broken free of the chains of MechJeb". We don't really care to know how you play. The point of any game is to have fun.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Benie

[Sapphire]

Well, this thread's gonna go well... Can we not have these threads all the time, they never go well.

[-RanZ-]

IBTL and Sof's mechjeb hate comments!

[air805ronin]

I'm very happy for you that you've discovered the joys of flying manually. I love to fly manual (and have yet to use mechjeb after letting it stabilize one orbit when I first downloaded the game). I probably fly a lot less missions than most people, but I still enjoy even just getting into a stable orbit.

edit: Please note that I'm not making a comment about mechjeb. The lesson of your story, to me, is that you used Mechjeb to understand what you should be doing and now its prepared you to learn how to do it on your own. This is something many people point out is a major plus of mechjeb, that you can use it as a learning tool...

Edited July 29, 2013 by air805ronin

[Brotoro]

I like threads with happy players. I like that msyblade is now happy without MechJeb. I like when other players are happy with MechJeb. I see no reason to be unhappy.

[Comrade Jenkens]

Well done on using mechjeb constructively to learn the game rather than just abusing it.

I mostly pilot things myself but sometimes I use mechjeb on fuel runs.

I'm also using its data readouts as engineers not 0.21 yet.

[littlebattler]

You'll go back to it once the thrill is over and transporting a bazillion of parts for your duna space station starts to become a chore (I'm sorry please kill me)

[Sof]

IBTL and Sof's mechjeb hate comments!

dammit!

[BubbaWilkins]

I wouldn't call it a rant. You used an aid until you learned well enough to do it on your own. Soon however, you'll get tired of doing it on your own and then MJ will be there to automate things for you once more!

[XaTriX]

Well, learning with MechJeb is for me a mistake, i think you've to begin without that, read forums,tutos & reach goals by calculating by your own. KSP now integrate enought tools to reach simply goals.

I'm playing KSP since few months, and enjoyed it, i never use MechJeb or any mod (erm just Chaterrer and i don't use it know) and i haven't still reach all my goals !

XaT

[TouhouTorpedo]

Interesting. I don't actually see the part thats a rant here. Mechjeb sounds like it helped you to learn the game and get an idea what to do, then you left it behind afterward, releasing the training wheels as it were. Bit of a shame you won't see too much new but hey I can't complain, I modded a super fuel tank back in them early days for dunking my test rovers on just about every planet I fancied trying it out on.

I did Mechjeb once, heck it had some useful features that are pretty undisputable (Damned Robotics Muservo module, Camera Mod module, DeltaV in VAB/SPH) and I did used to use Ascent and Land on the odd occasion for video work. Since Infernal Robotics and Kerbal Engineer, theres no need for me to use it at all anymore though. It might just be my experience, but I found it to be less reliable in time, and a lot of the features I tried really didn't perform as well as I'd expected. The addage of "If Mechjeb can't fly it, no one can..." is certainly not true in my experience, and it seems OP would agree with that. Still a pretty awesome piece of programming mind. I especially love how well the landing pilot works, and I'm gonna have to dig into the code one day out of curiousity.

[LeathalMeatball]

Its generally not the best idea to play exclusively echjebm piloted crafts while you are still learning how to play, and while observing mechjeb might teach you a few things it can easily become a crutch for inexperienced players. Though it cant really teach you precision landing, or planetary intercepts, which are very important for more challenging and ambitious missions. But most importantly, dont be one of those whiny players that needs mechjeb for everything and without it seem to find some simple things (ex. docking) almost impossible.

[M5000]

It will only become a rant or bad thread if that's all you talk about. Your post DOES matter!

Remember, the only thing worse than a MechJeb debate thread, is a MechJeb debate thread devoid of content and filled with users complaining about how it's another one of "those threads."

-If you just condemn the OP for making another MechJeb discussion thread and how it's going to turn into something bad, you're not helping anything.

-Other people will see your post, yes, your post, and will get the idea that the thread is going in a general downward direction, thus making more people post negatively, and perpetuating the cycle.

-If you congratulate the OP about graduating away from the mod, and/or share stories about the mod itself, you're positively contributing to the thread.

-Other people will see your post, yes, your post, and will get the idea that this is a more positive thread, thus posting, in a general manner, as such, perpetuating the cycle.

Forum dynamics, super simple stuff!

Even so, goings-on in this thread are pretty status-quo, so no need to get your panties in a bunch. c:

That said, I'm going to do my part and congratulate the OP on weaning him/herself off of total reliance on the mod. Personally, I still use it for a lot of things. Smart A.S.S. is just too useful, especially for those long, Ion-fueled burns at 1/4 throttle because I forgot to add enough solar panels..

Carry on!

[Scotius]

You'll go back to it once the thrill is over and transporting a bazillion of parts for your duna space station starts to become a chore (I'm sorry please kill me)

This. Believe me - everything is fine and dandy when you are manually flying interesting missions, landing something new somewhere far away. But then comes the day when you have to haul circa 10 modules of a space station into LKO. They are very similiar weight-wise, so standard lifter can push them into space. Orbit is stable, and circular. Lifter is well tested, all the kinks are worked out. All you need to do is launch and fly everything to that 80 km orbit. Then you go back to Space Center and launch another payload. And another. And another. After four launches it's not fun anymore. Around the eight you are hating the sound of releasing clamps Same with fuel hauling - good luck with staying alert and amused halfway through refuelling a mothership containing some 17 000 units of fuel manually. When human touch is needed i will fly my ships manually. But when it comes to tedious day-to-day chores of maintaining my space operation, i will glady delegate monotonous parts to MechJeb - he doesn't get frustrated, bored or prone to mistakes like i am

[lyravega]

I use MJ for boring tasks, and to obtain useful information. I tend to build rockets with just enough fuel, and seeing TWR or approx. delta-V etc... are all nice. I also use node adjustment tool often too, to plan precise maneuvers (not the auto-node-planner). Etc... etc... you get the picture. I rarely use the automation tools, sometimes I'm not in a mood to get into an orbit, so I use ascent guidance (sometimes, these are very boring to me as I've already said). I used MJ as a fast-how-to-space source before, now I barely touch any automation, but get all the information.

In my opinion, it was your fault to use every automation tool that MJ offers, and it was your fault to not learn anything

[Oddible]

Sounds like you were abusing MechJeb - not using it to be a better player but instead leaning on it like a crutch, congrats on breaking free! I hope you are enjoying the game more! However this post indicates you have a tiny bit of the addict mentality that feels that because they beat their addiction, that everyone who uses is an addict. Personally I am learning how to do everything without MechJeb, manually, but I always install MechJeb / Engineer / Protractor for info and stats, and I've even used MechJeb's automation features for test flights. And as I move on to more complex functions in the game, I don't feel the need to do the stuff over and over and over that I know I'm already good at. I haven't started using MJ for turning Prograde and Retrograde yet, but I can tell it is right around the corner.

[annallia]

I found a happy medium for me, I too found myself getting lazy and using mechjeb for everything. Now I use it more as a nav-computer than I do an auto pilot. I do all the flying myself (unless it is an unmanned ship for obvious reasons) and just use mechjeb to plot my course.

[ManaaniWanderer]

The only things I've used MechJeb for recently are landing, SmartASS, and the launch to intercept countdown. With. 21 I've successfully landed and the new SAS can replace SmartASS. One use isn't worth the bloat for me so I'm running w/o MechJeb now.

[arq]

I like threads with happy players. I like that msyblade is now happy without MechJeb. I like when other players are happy with MechJeb. I see no reason to be unhappy.

This.

Also, as much as I enjoy the design part of this game, I find the piloting aspects to be even more fun. I'm glad you found a change that allows you to better enjoy KSP.

[DChurchill]

I'm not sure how you "abuse" MechJeb. Are there rules for using it that I've missed?

[Swifty]

I like designing ships not as keen on flying them so I love mechjeb. That said I do then to use it to help me fly them rather than putting all my trust into it getting it right

[dlmarti]

With. 21 I've successfully landed and the new SAS can replace SmartASS.

This I don't get at all.

Not only does the new SAS not have a single feature that SmartASS does, it is not even as competent as the old ASAS.

I really am beginning to wonder if you guys never leave the atmo.

[El wonso]

I'm not sure how you "abuse" MechJeb. Are there rules for using it that I've missed?

There are not any rules, but if noobs use MechJeb for everything then they should not say things like "playing with mechjeb isn't fun".

Not only does the new SAS not have a single feature that SmartASS does, it is not even as competent as the old ASAS.

It's like kill rot but weaker so it almost has 1 feature

[magnemoe]

I'm not sure how you "abuse" MechJeb. Are there rules for using it that I've missed?

Yes it is, they tend to crash your craft. Examples, tell landing autopilot to land you just east of an high mountain from low orbit.

put an Ion probe in 90 km orbit, set Moho as target and do an planetary transfer. Mechjeb is smart enough to know it has to start the burn before the node, but not smart enough to know the trust will take you deep into the atmosphere. Ignore the Mun going in and out or at least get an fun slingshot somewhere, no mechjeb don't care and it look so small from an distance

Note some Russian pilots on an passenger plane set the autopilot at the approach point of an runway, ignoring the 3 km high mountain. It took some time figure this out, the black box was very damaged.

---

On the other hand: The landing legs, engine, fuel tank, monopropellant tank and asas worked well as crumble zones, we are proud to announce our first Mun base as an mission extension of the Mun landing.