[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[NeoAcario]

Attaching two generators to one reactor will definitely give you double resources until the reactor is drained - that's not a problem. Once the resources are drained though, you should see either both generators at 50% or one at 100% and the other at 0%. I'll check this out.

Once resources are drained it says the second Gen is producing 0... but the thrust is still increased by 38.65% I've tested it with all sized reactors + gens now. Bug confirmed.

Yeah, I want to do this based on size again, so I can make the smaller plasma thruster less heavy than the bigger one rather than having the difference being purely cosmetic.

Some kind of % efficiency or some such I imagine? Or just a hard cap on how much power you can put into a 1.25m plasma thruster when you have 4 of the 3.75m reactors and gens?

Also.. current thrust for the quantum vacuum fuel is the same as Liquid fuel. Is this where it plans to stay or do you plan to lower the thrust even more?

~Steve

[shadow651]

As far as the heat mechanic goes, i'm having issues with small land-rover probes building up heat over time through solar panels and microwave receivers. None of the heat dissipators are really an appropriate size for super small rovers....

[NeoAcario]

Holy F... just... I don't even... wow.

Well, Fractal, I really owe you an apology. Plasma Thrusters really are awesome. After exhaustive testing I can say that this is a no brainer choice for all of my future Kethane miners (when I have abundant Xenon). Combine this with the sphere tank mod and capacity is no longer an issue.

I make this choice mainly due to its efficiency with regards to AM. Only 0.4155 AM per second for 937.1kN of thrust with 1384 ISP with the Xenon fuel? YES PLEASE!

~Steve

EDIT: Yeah, just did the math... that's 14,594,478.5 dV (only the drive section) on a single small tank of 10,000 AM... with 197 refills of the Toroidal Xenon tank. Crazy AM efficiency.

Edited October 10, 2013 by NeoAcario

[SeventhArchitect]

Alright, Fractal, you have achieved the badass rank.

As far as I see it, you should actually make more exotic factors that need to be added, like you did with the heat thang. What I'm talkign about entirely, is that there needs to be something mroe. You're making this like some cool, badass mod that has more than just warp speed. I'd say make an apparatus that leads to some type of powerful fuel, but thats something which has no meaning. Plus, it'd be too op.

I'm going to say go ahead with the "too much heat is dangerous" idea. I may be one fan who says yes, but I'm a fan who's got a right mind. I'm saying yes, not because it's a chalenge, but because it's exotic, it's a challenge, and it will make anything I build look that much more awesome. I'm not just buildign for kicks anymore, I'm taking up a no-cheat challenge from henceforth. (except for my modified electric engines. They're small, and can't carry big things, but totally worth their existence now)

[theSpeare]

So here's what I've just done with Kethane and Interstellar.

I mentioned in a post ages ago about how a 'mining' or 'extractor' feature should be added to this mod. First of all, I'm using this completely for my own personal use, but if you're interested Fractal I could PM you all the tidbits and whatnot.

Anyways, from what I found, science via laboratories was an amazing idea. I felt that the stock sandbox lost a lot on not being to do more science. 0.22 appears to be addressing this, and I absolutely cannot wait for that - which is the main reason why I did this.

So, turns out, Kethane has some really neat modular API with its resource managing. By stock-Kethane, grids around every planet would randomly generate with the Kethane resource. The API allows you to add your own resource, complete with the ability to detect it, mine it and convert it. It's all very configurable, including changing min/max resource values and the amount of deposits per body specifically. One thing I can't figure out is to make the deposit areas into just ONE tile. If anyone could help with that, it'd be great. (Also setting the color, too.)

Anyways, here's where the magic happens for me. I added a KethaneResource called Samples, which is really just synonymous for "Interesting Dug-Up Scientific Crap". The mod magically generates its own deposits, complete with a separate hex maps that you can cycle through in the map.

Now once you've detected a "Samples" deposit, you can land a rover and deploy your drill on that site. At the moment the deposits have a min/max of 1-5. Each unit of samples converts to 2000 science for interstellar. You can do this with some sort of part (currently the RTG model) that holds science and converts science, but does not transmit. The reason for such a large ratio stems from my idea against "grinding". If the player wants a faster, riskier method of gaining more science - it'd be fair to make it a high-payout, but rare, occurrence.

I'm very excited to play with this now. I have more motive to plan missions to gain science faster and with more interaction from myself as a player.

What I would really like is integration to Fractal's dreams. It'd be best if the rover itself could have a part that converts the samples to science (which is the only way now), but with some sort of a large loss. Furthermore it's also given the ability to transmit, but yet again at a high loss. One other method is to drive it to a science lab for analysis (or fly it up to orbit) for a lesser loss. This'd be even better considering there's the whole Kerbal Stupidity added in (love that btw, Fractal).

The problem with having a lab grounded is the deposit would pretty much run out immediately. No one really likes driving a rover 5000km to another site and back, etc. I might experiment with the idea of creating one tile deposits of Samples, and then adding a lot of them. Dunno.

What do you think Fractal? Like or otherwise, it's all great - in the end I just wanted to show my appreciation for your mod. You (and Maijir) practically inspired a mod-within-a-mod-using-another-mod-within-a-game. Or something.

[SeventhArchitect]

By the way...I looked among the posts you made Fractal, and I nearly screeched my head off, and my voice sounds exactly like a deliciously played electric bass.

What you said:

To try and put it fairly simply, quantum mechanics says that a vacuum isn't really empty, it is actually full of particles that are continually being created and destroyed. The vacuum also has some energy associated with it and therefore some mass associated with that energy, so the quantum vacuum plasma thruster, instead of carrying a plasma propellant, it treats the quantum vacuum itself as a plasma and exerts forces against it in order to propel the spacecraft. A spacecraft with this type of engine doesn't need any internal propellant, all it needs is some fuel to power a large electric generator because the amount of thrust you get from doing this is really tiny.

You know what? I actually came up with an idea of how the universe exists and all that crap. You have the vacuum, which scientists say is empty, right? Well, what was there before the big bang? A whole lot of nothing. Literally. The universe is spreading, but you cna't say that the universe spreads by the atoms that grow apart. Truly there has to be something out there than jsut nothing. So, I thought of the vacuum as a vast ocean, and the way that radio waves travel isn't jsut through nothing, but through that ocean, like acting as ripples that we manipulate. This vacuum concept would also attend where there is atmosphere, and even where there is matter.

So much crap we don't know, yet it's right there, and we're all like, "Now WTF do we do?"

[Scotius]

theSpeare, take a look at this:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/50986-Universal-Resources-Because-Kethane-is-too-Easy!/page6

Post 55 contains a screenshot that might be of interest to you

Also, i absolutely LOVE your idea. Fractal, please - make it happen My Science Landers would have more to do, besides sitting on the regolith and slowly grind science points for me. And did you gave any thougt to my proposal of ISRU module? Such part would be universal, well fit for smaller landers and could've used the same drill as science sampler

Edited October 10, 2013 by Scotius
Typos.

[theSpeare]

Thank you! I've always wished there was more interaction or challenge for science. The method at the moment is really great, which is why I'd never suggest to remove it or change it in anyway. Which is why I prefer the alternative of just a high payout of finding and mining science.

I think I saw that post some time ago and thought it was great. The only thing it was missing was motive. Science and the ability to upgrade parts? Perfect foundation. As soon as I discovered this mod, I've been instantly stuck with this idea in the back of my head for ages.

I've already kind of figured out how to modify the deposits to be one tile. Next is color and balancing for every body. Something like Moho should have a lot of deposits with high science for example. I like the idea of that bacteria checking so that it's really just more of a "oh, since I'm here, might as well check!" but I'd prefer a detecting style similar to stock Kethane already, where you can find out in advance. The great thing about having one tile deposits (and low sample size) is that the landing will be very challenging (without mechjeb at least), presenting risk and challenge. Transporting it back and forth also plays a part in this.

Now all we need is Fractal to add more upgrades so Science is even more in demand. I really hope he never does a 'universal' upgrade where you just need to upgrade a part once. The way it is now allows much replayability without too much grinding, which is perfect. I'd really love the idea of adding more upgrade levels to the current parts like Thermal Rocket, but maybe making the next upgrade cost a hell of a lot for half or quarter the advantage the first upgrade offered.

I can't wait for Fractal's input - very exciting stuff for me.

When I finish I suppose I can post a tutorial about how to modify your files to allow you to do this (I'm inexperienced with all this licensing stuff, so I'm assuming that showing people how to modify the files rather than distributing is okay.).

[SeventhArchitect]

Ok, nevermind, I'll just fill up the config files with science and antimatter, cause I'm impatient...

[SeventhArchitect]

BTW, still having trouble with a specific break in my ships. The Triton, my recent vessel, has just encountered a problem after I solved the last problem.

Using three hybrid engines, I powered the rocket on liquidfuel, and then mashed in a quantum plasma engine to help with what I'm trying to do. (pure electrical engine, cool as freak man) Th problem no is just the oddest thing, because it's a problem that has persisted the entire time I have used this mod. I'll be flying, then all of a sudden, two parts just disconnect. The way it does so, though, is that maybe just the engine comes off, just because it probably can't handle it's own thrust power.

The ship has ZERO wobble force. Not a single piece moves unless I allow it, and about a fraction of the way into orbit, I lose the ship, the ENTIRE hud just flew out the window, disappearing before me, and I flinched, checked it out, the cockpit itself became detached from the vessel. This is that whole "can't withstand the force behind it" thing going again, and it may not be fixable without cheating, but this really annoys me because I have to buckle down EVERY part on my rockets/vessels, otherwise, it dies at the near beginning of flight. Even on very low thrusts.

[NeoAcario]

SeventhArchitect -

It is possible to break joints by thrusting INTO them. Happens all the time. Toss a couple struts on the offending part and it should vanish. Also.. accelerate slowly. Often times I run into this problem with sudden Gs from excessive acceleration.

~Steve

PS Fractal_UK:

1.25m AM reactor still works best with the thermal nozzle and methane in all regards except in atmo. Sorry, but I think I'll just start tossing the plasma thruster on ships when I have plenty of excess science and want a pure energy rocket for deep space maneuvering.

EDIT: OH! And Eeloo has the same science rate as Moho! I prefer Eeloo over Moho any day for a location for setting up a base. Building a super computer base / hub as we speak.

Edited October 10, 2013 by NeoAcario

[SeventhArchitect]

SeventhArchitect -

It is possible to break joints by thrusting INTO them. Happens all the time. Toss a couple struts on the offending part and it should vanish. Also.. accelerate slowly. Often times I run into this problem with sudden Gs from excessive acceleration.

~Steve

The thrusters were started at half thrust, and the thrust was never changed up or down. It was just me, ya know, watching it launch, then snap, the cockpit comes off. there were Gs, but that was the force of gravity against the thrust of the ship. Thats simple Low-G. I can't quite figure out why ONLY fractal's mod does this.

The Triton ahs been launched, and after a last modification, it was put into orbit around kerbin with 66.9% liquidfuel left in the tanks.

Two thumbs up, now I just gotta get an alcubierre drive onto something bigger than a vessel that is smaller than the Challenger shuttle.

[SeventhArchitect]

Actually, just got an idea.

The idea of a detachable warp-drive ring sounds awesome. Like Obi Wan's fighter.

Excep mine is going to be a triangle. No! A pentago! Wait...Pentago would be harder to make...Hrmmmm....Decisions.

[zzz]

You know what? I actually came up with an idea of how the universe exists and all that crap...

I think this is called Aether theory

[Scotius]

Well...if you go down to quantum level everything is energy. So we might as well be a ultra-realistic simulation some extradimensional alien is running on his kick-ass superdesktop

[Donziboy2]

I can confirm that we are getting more thrust with 2 generators also, and I compared it to my plasma thrust table. Looks like about 38.6% increase in thrust, that's with MJ completely drained it just keeps going.

Plasma Thruster and Gen/Reactor Spreadsheets

Also guys I don't think any plans for science are being made until after 0.22, it would be a waste of Fractal_UK's time to plan when things are going to change very shortly.

[Jasmir]

Hi Fractal_UK,

producing Antimatter in Labs & reprocess Nuclear Fuel still dosn't work if the vessel is out of focus.

[forsaken1111]

Fractal_UK:

Any chance you could write in a simple API to allow another mod to hook into your resource handler and science code? I'm planning a mod as I mentioned earlier and I'd like to have some parts that interact with yours if they are available. One which generates science from a resource or resources, one which generates MJ but iirc you said MJ generation is handled by your own resource manager.

[EpsilonIndustries]

And I'm finaly caught up, man this thread moves fast when you don't check it every 5 minutes

Anyway I was wondering if, once waste heat becomes dangerous, you would consider adding some way to jettison the uranium from a nuclear reactor, perhaps with some negative effect on nearby vessels? Since the nuclear reactors can only be throttled to 30%, if the radiators are damaged that could lead to some problems. Then again I've not had any problems with radiators being damaged but I like having options should the situation arise.

I understand if you don't want to, this mod is already super complicated for new users (in the best of ways, of course), I just thought I would throw the idea out there.

[sam445]

Great mod, it really adds depth to the game!

However since 0.6.1 my game crashes randomly, does anybody else have that problem?

I have the following mods installed:

Interstellar 0.6.1

B9 Aerospace

H.O.M.E

CrewManifest

DeepSpaceMissionPack (DSM)

EditorExtension (Not in cause)

Firespitter Plugin

Hexcan (???)(forgot what this one does)

HooliganLabs Airships

Ion Hybrid Electric Pack

ProceduralFairing

HyperEdit

Mechjeb for All

KineTechAnimation Plugin

ModuleManager Plugin

NovaPunch 2

Part Catalog

ResGen Plugin

The game crashes and it usually doesn't show any error report or message.

[zzz]

Since the nuclear reactors can only be throttled to 30%, if the radiators are damaged that could lead to some problems. Then again I've not had any problems with radiators being damaged but I like having options should the situation arise.

You can solve it in usual kerbal way by using emergency decoupler between reactor and vessel.

[Fractal_UK]

producing Antimatter in Labs & reprocess Nuclear Fuel still dosn't work if the vessel is out of focus.

I've only just fixed the antimatter problem so I haven't uploaded a new version since I fixed this problem. Nuclear fuel reprocessing won't work while the vessel is unfocused because there is no code for that at present - I don't consider this a major priority because it doesn't have an indefinite timespan, it's something that doesn't take particularly long.

I can confirm that we are getting more thrust with 2 generators also, and I compared it to my plasma thrust table. Looks like about 38.6% increase in thrust, that's with MJ completely drained it just keeps going.

I've identified problem and thank heavens there is nothing wrong with the resource manager - running two antimatter factories with one reactor and two generators will only give you the one lot of power. It's solely a problem with the plasma engines.

Hopefully I can get this fixed later today.

Any chance you could write in a simple API to allow another mod to hook into your resource handler and science code? I'm planning a mod as I mentioned earlier and I'd like to have some parts that interact with yours if they are available. One which generates science from a resource or resources, one which generates MJ but iirc you said MJ generation is handled by your own resource manager.

The resource manager is fairly easy to interface with, send me a PM to remind me to get back to you about this. The code you need is really simple.

Anyway I was wondering if, once waste heat becomes dangerous, you would consider adding some way to jettison the uranium from a nuclear reactor, perhaps with some negative effect on nearby vessels? Since the nuclear reactors can only be throttled to 30%, if the radiators are damaged that could lead to some problems. Then again I've not had any problems with radiators being damaged but I like having options should the situation arise.

Yeah, I'm certainly considering options for things that can go wrong in future when you don't dissipate your heat. It would be nice (and logical) for bad things to happen if you fail to prevent your nuclear reactor core from seriously too hot - interior melts, melts a hole in your spacecraft, oh dear oh dear. I'm still figuring out the basics of how this whole system is going to work so far though.

The only thing I'm really set open so far is I want the cold bath generator temperature to be dependant upon your radiator temperature, which means that the hotter the radiators get, the lower efficiency your production of electrical power becomes. I do also want some safety systems to turn off/down reactors that are on spaceships that are getting too hot - so the biggest danger to deadly overheating might indeed be fission reactors that can't be throttled below 30%.

[Conti]

I am glad to see you liked my idea of connecting cold bath temp to the radiator temp - In terms of damage.... I still vote for the fission reactor being auto-disabled (uranium rods pulled from reactor core) and require an EVA to unlock the rods and restart the reactor. Implementing more uses for EVA gives some nice gameplay opportunities and it prevents us from losing ships at high time warp on accident.

This also reminds me of a request I have but have not stated in this thread for zzz:

@zzz would you please create one of your amazing models for the fission reactors? I use fission reactors a lot with this mod, and they look atrocious next to the beautiful brayton models you released.

[Fractal_UK]

Great mod, it really adds depth to the game!

However since 0.6.1 my game crashes randomly, does anybody else have that problem?

I have the following mods installed:

Interstellar 0.6.1

B9 Aerospace

H.O.M.E

CrewManifest

DeepSpaceMissionPack (DSM)

EditorExtension (Not in cause)

Firespitter Plugin

Hexcan (???)(forgot what this one does)

HooliganLabs Airships

Ion Hybrid Electric Pack

ProceduralFairing

HyperEdit

Mechjeb for All

KineTechAnimation Plugin

ModuleManager Plugin

NovaPunch 2

Part Catalog

ResGen Plugin

That's quite a lot of mods, I'd guess you're hitting the near ~4GB RAM limit that KSP is curtailed by as a 32bit application. If you want to keep all of the mods, I'd recommend deleting some of the parts that you need infrequently or never.

[Jasmir]

Nuclear fuel reprocessing won't work while the vessel is unfocused because there is no code for that at present - I don't consider this a major priority because it doesn't have an indefinite timespan, it's something that doesn't take particularly long.

~300 hours in a pretty low orbit can be long, due high timewarps isn't possible

For me, it would be very nice to have this feature