[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[Umlüx]

the generated science is automagically added to your R&B building when you focus the science lab. you don't actually see the science pints building up.

[Fractal_UK]

I've been experimenting with methods of displaying information about resources in a way that is easy to intepret, the information is quite high density so it isn't completely straightforward but I have managed to get quite far by highlighting useful hotspots.

This rare resource system is different from the likes of Kethane very much by design in that Kethane is about looking for fixed deposits underground, while I'm looking at the abundance of crustal materials. That means, where ever you go, there will always be a bit of the material you're looking for it's just highly unlikely to be there in useful quantities.

Anyway, I showed off the Gamma Ray Spectrometer a few pages ago but now new options have appeared to highlight hotspots.

If we click on the display thorium hotspots, all the areas with high resource abundance nearby will be shown. Abundance in this case means a crustal abundance in that region of greater than 0.1%. Click that button and immediately we can see where we need to be to get our hands on all that juicy thorium.

Only hotspots within line of sight from the vessel will be shown. Gamma rays might be highly penetrating but they don't tend to pass through planets.

[User Unrelated]

So, when I first launched the mod, the tech tree chooser came up, but I was unable to select anything in the "online tree" or whatever option that is, so I just lazily clicked "use stock"...

and now after uninstalling and reinstalling the mod several times, I cannot get the tree chooser to appear again, and I'm still stuck with the stock tree.

Is there any way to change a config file to use the interstellar tree?

also, you spelled "regolith" wrong in the description of the hybrid aluminum rocket

EDIT: and I like what I'm seeing up there! Is this due in a future update?

Edited November 11, 2013 by User Unrelated

[Scotius]

Will locations be stored somewhere, or will we have to scan every time we send mining ship to gather resources?

[Fractal_UK]

So, when I first launched the mod, the tech tree chooser came up, but I was unable to select anything in the "online tree" or whatever option that is, so I just lazily clicked "use stock"...

and now after uninstalling and reinstalling the mod several times, I cannot get the tree chooser to appear again, and I'm still stuck with the stock tree.

Is there any way to change a config file to use the interstellar tree?

If you go into your save file folder and delete the "tree.cfg" file, the option should return. The tech tree is stored individually for each save game.

also, you spelled "regolith" wrong in the description of the hybrid aluminum rocket

Cheers, fixed it.

EDIT: and I like what I'm seeing up there! Is this due in a future update?

Yes, it's part of the features planned for 0.8.

Will locations be stored somewhere, or will we have to scan every time we send mining ship to gather resources?

The locations will remain constant. They are derived from an image file which will be the same for everyone so you can potentially discuss and share good mining locations.

[User Unrelated]

If you go into your save file folder and delete the "tree.cfg" file, the option should return. The tech tree is stored individually for each save game.

Thank you! The dialogue appears again, but under the "online tree" option, all I see is "--select--"

and when I click on it, the button animation plays for it being clicked, but nothing happens... I can't select anything besides the "use stock" button.

[Fractal_UK]

Thank you! The dialogue appears again, but under the "online tree" option, all I see is "--select--"

and when I click on it, the button animation plays for it being clicked, but nothing happens... I can't select anything besides the "use stock" button.

Okay, download this copy of tree.cfg and manually place it in your save file folder where you deleted the old one from.

[User Unrelated]

Okay, download this copy of tree.cfg and manually place it in your save file folder where you deleted the old one from.

Thanks a lot

The KSS Procrastotron is ready for it's maiden launch!

[NotCoach]

I've been experimenting with methods of displaying information about resources in a way that is easy to intepret, the information is quite high density so it isn't completely straightforward but I have managed to get quite far by highlighting useful hotspots.

This rare resource system is different from the likes of Kethane very much by design in that Kethane is about looking for fixed deposits underground, while I'm looking at the abundance of crustal materials. That means, where ever you go, there will always be a bit of the material you're looking for it's just highly unlikely to be there in useful quantities.

This stuff is very cool, but I have micromanagement concerns. The ultimate goal in playing KSP is to explore the Kerbin solar system. I personally don't want to get bogged down collecting resources on Kerbin. I would like to see an option to allow us to skip collecting any resources on the surface of Kerbin. That would include deuterium and tritium as well. As far as I'm concerned if Kerbin has a resource some other entrepreneuring Kerbins are collecting it and selling it to KSP. I only want to be concerned with resource collection and management beyond Kerbin. Real life space agencies aren't in the business of resource collection here on Earth. They are concentrating on sustainability and resource management beyond Earth.

[BananaDealer]

Can't wait for 0.7.5...

Also- is there any chance of getting an omni-engine (one that runs well both in atmosphere and in space) that uses antimatter for fuel?

[Fractal_UK]

This stuff is very cool, but I have micromanagement concerns. The ultimate goal in playing KSP is to explore the Kerbin solar system. I personally don't want to get bogged down collecting resources on Kerbin. I would like to see an option to allow us to skip collecting any resources on the surface of Kerbin. That would include deuterium and tritium as well. As far as I'm concerned if Kerbin has a resource some other entrepreneuring Kerbins are collecting it and selling it to KSP. I only want to be concerned with resource collection and management beyond Kerbin. Real life space agencies aren't in the business of resource collection here on Earth. They are concentrating on sustainability and resource management beyond Earth.

You don't need to collect either Deuterium or Tritium, the DT Vista is the only thing that currently uses those resources and it starts fully fueled. Likewise the nuclear reactors start fully fueled with Uranium.

That said, until there is some career mode mechanism whereby you actually have to spend something to get access to resources, the high powered stuff is still going to need to be collected even on Kerbin, otherwise the game reverts to the stock model of: produce magic resource canister in VAB, send it to planet A, repeat until sufficient resource supply.

Also- is there any chance of getting an omni-engine (one that runs well both in atmosphere and in space) that uses antimatter for fuel?

Not really, while an antimatter pion engine would be cool in real life, there isn't much point in KSP. Even using antimatter at the rate of the fastest reactor, thrust would be maybe ~1kN albeit with exhaust velocity of something like 0.3c.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Fractal_UK

[NotCoach]

You don't need to collect either Deuterium or Tritium, the DT Vista is the only thing that currently uses those resources and it starts fully fueled. Likewise the nuclear reactors start fully fueled with Uranium.

That said, until there is some career mode mechanism whereby you actually have to spend something to get access to resources, the high powered stuff is still going to need to be collected even on Kerbin, otherwise the game reverts to the stock model of: produce magic resource canister in VAB, send it to planet A, repeat until sufficient resource supply.

Understood. You are right there needs to be a cost component somewhere, but I just want that cost to not be my time. Collecting these resources beyond Kerbin has its benefits, of course. But if available on Kerbin I am interested in limiting the cost to some other mechanic besides time, such as having to earn the cash necessary to purchase the hard to collect materials. Those entrepreneuring Kerbins shouldn't expect to be paid nothing.

[BananaDealer]

Not really, while an antimatter pion engine would be cool in real life, there isn't much point in KSP. Even using antimatter at the rate of the fastest reactor, thrust would be maybe ~1kN albeit with exhaust velocity of something like 0.3c.

What about an engine that uses antimatter in a fusion reaction and then uses the heat/energy for power? Basically, a thermal jet running on atmospheric without the atmosphere requirement...

[Donziboy2]

Understood. You are right there needs to be a cost component somewhere, but I just want that cost to not be my time. Collecting these resources beyond Kerbin has its benefits, of course. But if available on Kerbin I am interested in limiting the cost to some other mechanic besides time, such as having to earn the cash necessary to purchase the hard to collect materials. Those entrepreneuring Kerbins shouldn't expect to be paid nothing.

Download TAC Fuel Balancer, build your ship normally, launch it, on the pad open the balancer and select edit on the tank you want to change. Fill the tank and wala free fuel....

I use it for my testing so I don't have to bother collecting, or moving resources just to blow the rocket up after launch lol.

[BrickedKeyboard]

Could you use antimatter + outside air or antimatter + water to get enough thrust for liftoff? Admittedly not very efficient, but the thrust would be there, right?

Of course, out of all the futuristic technologies i know about, for doing mere liftoff from an atmosphere, using a laser based on the ground to vaporize the back of your spacecraft (several thousand isp), or an electromagnetic launcher (isp irrelevant), or an elevator cable is all a lot better than any engine.

[Fractal_UK]

Could you use antimatter + outside air or antimatter + water to get enough thrust for liftoff? Admittedly not very efficient, but the thrust would be there, right?

That's what the thermal turbojet + antimatter reactor represents.

Of course, out of all the futuristic technologies i know about, for doing mere liftoff from an atmosphere, using a laser based on the ground to vaporize the back of your spacecraft (several thousand isp), or an electromagnetic launcher (isp irrelevant), or an elevator cable is all a lot better than any engine.

A microwave launch system will be coming in the next update, doesn't have quite the same Isp as actually ablating your spacecraft away but it should still be a nice feature.

[NotCoach]

Download TAC Fuel Balancer, build your ship normally, launch it, on the pad open the balancer and select edit on the tank you want to change. Fill the tank and wala free fuel....

I use it for my testing so I don't have to bother collecting, or moving resources just to blow the rocket up after launch lol.

I already use it, but thanks. Just to keep it challenging I only use it for magical refueling on Kerbin. Still need to get it into orbit. And I don't have a problem with collecting resources beyond Kerbin. That would just be a reality of any sustainable early space program, IRL, if traveling to other planets with live people and wanting to return without building a super-sized interplanetary vehicle. I'm also using the Orbital Construction mod as an intermediate step between full blown extra-Kerbin resource gathering, and construction. Still need to get resources up to the warehouse, but once I have my local tug (too big to move from Kerbin's surface with its 4 3.5m reactors and 4 3.5m thermal rockets) I'll move all resource gathering over to Mun or Minmus.

[BananaDealer]

Could you use antimatter + outside air or antimatter + water to get enough thrust for liftoff? Admittedly not very efficient, but the thrust would be there, right?

My idea is for an orbital engine, so lift-off capability is irrelevant*. I'm also looking for only antimatter use, and perhaps some sort of reaction-stabilizer that's renewable. The basic idea is for something that can go on long missions without refuel. Re-supply would still be necessary for the crew, of course...

*The mode would be most useful outside the presence of atmosphere. This is also intended for craft not intended for atmospheric flight.

[Eadrom]

If we are to eventually get to a system where all the advanced fuels need to be collected and brought to the space center, probably my primary concern is that we will be doomed to use previous tech levels to gather target resource efficiently. For example, instead of being able to use thermal rocket systems to travel to and mine fissionable materials and then return them to KSC, we'd have to use primarily stock ships to mine the materials and return them. Say if the best place to mine uranium is on Tylo (completely randomly chosen example). If I'm using a thermal rocket to travel there, mine, and return to Kerbin, I would want it to be reasonably easy to carry enough materials back to replace the nuke fuel spent on the trip as well as having a decent profit of materials left over to be used to refuel other nuke reactors.

I'd want to be able to use my max tech level parts to efficiently supply my economy for those parts. I'm also not a fan of doing a whole lot of resource collecting on Kerbin. I want that to be an option if needed, to be sure, just not a required gameplay element of KSPI. Anything I can easily procure myself right at KSC, I generally just mod those resources to be full from the get go. 1% for Antimatter tanks and full for the D/T tanks. I like that the ability for IS resource gathering has soooo many options (one of the reasons I love this mod so much is massive freedom of choice), I just don't want to have to clutter up the space center with a bunch of infrastructure that could reasonably be managed by the fictional other Kerbal companies referenced by NotCoach. With the upcoming tweakables in .23, KSPI might be able to accommodate both playstyles. I think both playstyles of having your space program manage all resources used by the space program (most non-stock tanks start empty) and having some (think D and T and Lithium) managed by other Kerbin companies and thus start full in the VAB/SPH are both completely valid. Some people enjoy one or the other far more and that is perfect. If I had a faster computer, I'd probably want the extra challenge of managing space center based resource infrastructure.

[Fractal_UK]

I actually need to make a change to the DT tank to fill up the Deuterium resource from the start. My general perspective on resources is that if they can be mined or extracted from Kerbin, they should be available in the VAB. If they have to be produced somehow, you have to make them.

So, in the case of the DT tank, the deuterium would start full because it can be readily extracted from oceans but the tritium starts empty because it has a half-life of ~12 years so doesn't really occur in nature (aside from trace quantities produced by cosmic rays).

Likewise Uranium will be available in the VAB because it only needs enrichment. Thorium will probably be available too once tweakables arrive for the same reason.

[kaldak]

That sounds pretty fair. I don't mind some resource gathering, but having to hunt down multiple resources before I can even get off the launchpad would be a chore.

Oh, and this isn't super important, but I think there might be some errors in the power/thrust tables in the OP. For example, according to it 3.75m reactors connected to thermal rockets provide less thrust when upgraded.

Edited November 11, 2013 by kaldak

[wasmic]

Hey Fractal, how about a saltwater engine (evil grin)? You know, the one that's an Orion Impulse Drive, but without the impulse, as it causes a continous nuclear explosion behind it.

[Eadrom]

I can dig that Fractal. You've done a very fine job in this mod of balancing realism with enjoyable gameplay and placing the challenges of the mod in appropriate gameplay components. Thank you for that!

[Srilania]

Can you post a copy of your KSP.log file? I think this may signify some kind of bad interaction with another mod. What else do you have installed?

Not sure which file that is, but it's not crashing, it's just screwing up, and requiring me to close out to get it to clear the issue. The plugins being used are:

B9 Aerospace

EL Launchpads (doesn't seem to be integrated into the IS tree stuff)

Firespitter

Hexcans

Hooligan Labs Airships mods

KAS (again, doesn't seeem to be in the tree)

Spherical Tanks

Kethane

KW Rocktry

Mechjeb 2

NearFuture

Resgen

The issue does seem to crop up so far when adding Hooligan airship envelopes so I can move the lab around the surface. Will test using some other propulsion method, since that might be causing the issue

[Donziboy2]

Sounds like your running into the max ram Hard limit....

B9, KW, and Hooligan all have pretty heavy ram usage.