[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[Kenken244]

Your problem is that antimatter flows like liquidfuel. you need all components between the antimatter tanks and the reactor to be crossfeed compatible.

[Fractal_UK]

It certainly looks like a fuel crossfeed problem - if I had to guess I'd say it looked like the top tanks have the antimatter in them and for some reason they aren't connected up to the reactor. If the collectors were connected then the reactor would still run but at a vastly reduced rate, that would explain the lack of an "Antimatter Deprived" message on the reactor.

Are you able to pump antimatter between tanks?

[Umlüx]

until today i thought this mod was too much of a hassle. the parts looked nice, but the theoretical numbers and stats didn't sound that great. and the time to fill up a 2,5m AM tank... omg..

but today, i launched my first AM-Fusion powered craft. its tiny when compared to the standard chemical/Nerva propelled crafts. just completed the burn for jool and it nearly used no fuel at all... seems i still overengineered it. i think it is even fit for a real grande tour.

i think, now i love this mod. it is really a step forward when you already have achieved landings on all planets/moons and have bases on duna and laythe. it cuts down travel time and you can concentrate on basebuilding or whatever goals you may set for yourself.

thanks zzz and fractal!

[xfrankie]

Tried pumping the AM around, it is possible to get it into every tank but it doesn't change anything...

However when I undock the collectors, it instantly starts to work (the ship updates or something?)

After docking the collectors back, it stops again - no idea why, the AM is already in there (maybe the reactor prioritizes the insufficient amount of AM coming from the collectors, before moving to the supplies in the tanks?).

The fuel crossfeed is available between all parts of the core, as for the collectors/core I thought the fuel-pipe was going to be enough to sort it out, but meh... guess I'll just try some other design, because for some reason the collectors seem to screw it all up everytime I dock them to the ship.

Thank you for trying to help me though.

[Tigermisu]

Question, what does the Science Lab need to generate science? I set one up and it says 0/0mw power (I do have electriccharge) and it says 0 Science per day

[Tommygun]

I believe you need the resource "megajoules of power" provided by the mod's generators and not generic electricity.

Although I haven't done research for a while.

[Fractal_UK]

Question, what does the Science Lab need to generate science? I set one up and it says 0/0mw power (I do have electriccharge) and it says 0 Science per day

ElectricCharge is not sufficient for the Science Lab, you will need something like a nuclear reactor+generator to power the science lab. It uses 5MW for research so the 1.25m reactor and generator (with some radiators) should be sufficient.

After docking the collectors back, it stops again - no idea why, the AM is already in there (maybe the reactor prioritizes the insufficient amount of AM coming from the collectors, before moving to the supplies in the tanks?).

Can you check your KSP.log file and check that there is a message indicating that a Megajoule resource manager has been created, it will have a [WarpPlugin] tag at the start of the line. Feel free to just post a copy of this file if it's easier for you.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Fractal_UK

[Hremsfeld]

Question, what does the Science Lab need to generate science? I set one up and it says 0/0mw power (I do have electriccharge) and it says 0 Science per day

If you're not short on Megajoules, do you have kerbals on-hand? The science lab is a manned part.

Edit: I was trying to see if there was a larger Xenon tank added, so I took a look through the various part.cfg files. I saw a BigXenonTank folder nested in the FuelTank folder, and its part name is indeed BigXenonTank, but its title is Large Argon Container, and true to that it contains only Argon. I'll just config-edit an otherwise-identical xenon tank into my file; how much capacity would you recommend, Fractal? If it helps, a single plasma thruster with a 3.75 meter KTEC reactor and 3.75 meter solid-core nuclear reactor will go through 3000 XenonGas in about 25-30 seconds at full power at sea level.

Edit 2: Electric Boogaloo: 500,000 Xenon is perhaps excessive. Mechjeb predicts it'll last for 1 hour and five minutes. A ship containing nothing but a computer core, huge radiator, the 3.75m base nuclear reactor and upgraded generator, 500,000 Xenon, and the 2.5m plasma thruster will get approximately 8000 m/s of delta-v and 1.539m/s² of acceleration. The fueltank itself will weigh 50 tons; slightly less than three Rockomax-32 tanks, for those keeping track at home. I'm idly wondering if I could slap some reaction wheels on this and make a good rover.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Hremsfeld

[Saphykitten]

I just wanted to share my antimatter research station before I lose it when the update comes! It has five of the 3.75m Antimatter tanks, 25 of the 2.5m Antimatter collectors. The station has space for upto 17 Kerbals (though I recommend only 5 to 7) and it can support 7 Kerbals for 700 days. (I use both the remote tech plugin, and TAC Life Support) The station has a KIWI Nuke Reactor that keeps it powered, as well as 4 large solar arrays. It has a cluster of Five of the 350gm Radar dishes, to keep it connected with the orbiting relay stations.

Currently the station is unmanned, I have launched everything in my system (28 flights) unmanned, in preparation for a grand tour. I use an unmanned tug to transfer Antimatter from the station to a station orbiting Kerbin. The only thing I don't use from the Interstellar Mod is the Warp drive, not because I don't want to, but because me and a friend are having a "space race" to see who can get a full space network up and running, and do a grand tour first.

Note: I have changed the Vista engine from 3.75m down to 1.25m, and have reduced its resource consumption (and its benefits) by 1/3, as well as changed the Aluminum Rocket from 2.5m to 1.25m, doing the same thing by cutting the resources and thrust in half. Makes it much more manageable and usable.

Maybe I will post some more of my Interstellar inspired parts/stations here!

~Saphy

[AndreyATGB]

Every time I use the Vesta engine I think "man....this seems OP" then I realize how long I've been playing KSP for and even this specific save file. All those landings for the science has led me to that, then it feels really nice "this is what I've been working for".

[Saphykitten]

Every time I use the Vesta engine I think "man....this seems OP" then I realize how long I've been playing KSP for and even this specific save file. All those landings for the science has led me to that, then it feels really nice "this is what I've been working for".

I love the Vista engine! It does seem a little OP until you realize how hard it is to refuel the Dueterium! Landing in the oceans on Laythe, Kerbin, or Eve and getting back up is a pain in the ass! Also, since I rescaled it down, I find it incredibly more useful!

[Donziboy2]

Also, since I rescaled it down, I find it incredibly more useful!

Its supposed to be a niche engine, and it does a very good job, especially if you run it at low throttle. Once you unlock the warp drive you also unlock the Quantum Plasma on the Plasma engine, it basically just runs off power. KSP needs more star systems lol.

I generally run with several Duet tanks, and I fill them on the Pad with TAC Fuel Balancer, most of my mining attempts failed...

[Thourion]

Im sure i saw the answer somewhere (ah damn it all, i think im staring to get memory problems ) anyway, since we are talking about the Vespa ..erm i mean the Vista, is it possible to get Deuterium from the ice in Kerbin/Duna ?

[Fractal_UK]

Numerous people, including Scott Manley, have made the argument to me that the Science lab is too versatile and simulates far too many roles at the moment. I'm inclined to agree, there are at least two parts worth of functionality in there, if not more.

For a while I've wanted to add a refinery part that takes care of most of the ISRU aspects of the science lab, letting me draw a distinction between relatively simple resource extraction and processing processes that can be automated and those which require Kerbal oversight. I'm going to split the functionality as follows, for the time being:

Science Lab (Requires Kerbals)

• Research
  
• Antimatter Production
  
• Deuterium Centrifuge

Refinery (can be automated)

• Electrolysis
  
• Mining
  
• Nuclear Fuel Reprocessing

Any such change, of course, required new models. Fortunately, ZZZ comes to the rescue again - I decided to get around to giving his Hab module a purpose in the game. Originally this was imagined as something like a hitchhiker storage module but I removed the crew capacity and replace the airlock with a radial attachment node. The result is, in my opion, quite fantastic. I can already see some exciting bases being built with these.

Even with a quick test mission to demonstrate mining thorium, I was able to produce this:

If you look closely on the map view, you should be able to see my location - right on top of a Thorium hotspot.

Its supposed to be a niche engine, and it does a very good job, especially if you run it at low throttle. Once you unlock the warp drive you also unlock the Quantum Plasma on the Plasma engine, it basically just runs off power. KSP needs more star systems lol.

I generally run with several Duet tanks, and I fill them on the Pad with TAC Fuel Balancer, most of my mining attempts failed...

Refueling Deuterium will be far less of an issue after the update as all the Deuterium tanks will start full, that will let you carry a more significant supply of fuel with you between refueling rounds. The part you'll need to worry about refueling is just the Tritium.

[xfrankie]

Can you check your KSP.log file and check that there is a message indicating that a Megajoule resource manager has been created, it will have a [WarpPlugin] tag at the start of the line. Feel free to just post a copy of this file if it's easier for you.

KSP.log : https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxSUXWRJIwcOLWhTb0xuVUF3QTA/edit?usp=sharing

my guess is that the part I'm supposed to look for is between [LOG 23:17:53.950] and [LOG 23:24:57.777]

namely [LOG 23:19:50.428] creates resource manager after undocking and "[LOG 23:23:01.933] Docking to vessel" does nothing (but I'm not an expert on this...)

[colmo]

Has anyone thought of integrating the Orion mod into this pack? Perhaps it's not a good fit, with the elegance and sophistication of this pack versus the brute force and danger of Orion?

[Umlüx]

why use a cannon if you have lasers i don't think the orion drive would fit here. we already have the vista and alcubierre drive.

the only thing i am missing with this mod is a way to visualize your total dV when using the vista. MJ fails miserably..

...wasnt there a simple equation somewhere to manually calculate your dV with given wet/dry mass and isp?

[wasmic]

Has anyone thought of integrating the Orion mod into this pack? Perhaps it's not a good fit, with the elegance and sophistication of this pack versus the brute force and danger of Orion?

I don't think they'll match, but mostly because of balance reasons. Think about the Vista - many, many times a second, it triggers a nuclear detonation.

[Jasmir]

Hi Fractal_UK,

will you also include the UF4/ThF4 tanks in different sizes? A tank, that is flat enough be used as a ventral droptank on this craft would be really nice:

@colmo:

I think, a "orion drive" in real would have a anemic thrust and ISP in space. So, you can simulate it in game with stock parts: Simple bring a lot decouplers with you and throw them off one by one....

[Patupi]

'Anemic thrust'?!? Right now it's the only high thrust, high isp drive we can actually build. Everything else buildable sacrifices one for the other. It pales in comparison to a fusion pulse engine like Vista, but even with the Orion as it is, using a fraction of the nuclear detonation energy (even with shaped nuclear charges which aren't perfect), it has a very high energy content to it's fuel. The main problem with the classical Orion drive is that the drive bombs have to be constructed and this ups the fuel cost a LOT. More recent designs use various packets of elements that are energized by particle or ion beams to make them go critical... or like the vista to compress something into generating a fusion reaction. These make the engine more expensive and complicated and the fuel less so.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Patupi

[colmo]

It's all about the tech tree progression. I suppose as the more futuristic models are unlocked and upgraded, the Orion becomes obsolete - then it's just an extra set of parts taking up RAM.

Where would the old Z-pinch engine (a la Kadmos and Proteus) fit in this pack's hierarchy?

I'm looking forward to getting enough KSP time in to actually try this pack - it does seem to give legs to the end game. The models are stunning, too.

[Donziboy2]

why use a cannon if you have lasers i don't think the orion drive would fit here. we already have the vista and alcubierre drive.

the only thing i am missing with this mod is a way to visualize your total dV when using the vista. MJ fails miserably..

...wasnt there a simple equation somewhere to manually calculate your dV with given wet/dry mass and isp?

What I do is set the throttle with MJ to a % and then run the engine long enough to see what the LF consumption is, divide the remaining LF by consumption and then multiply that by your current acceleration and that will be a ballpark of what your dV is.. I have the Deut/trit consumption written somewhere lol, ill have to recalculate it.

[Jasmir]

'Anemic thrust'?!? Right now it's the only high thrust, high isp drive we can actually build. Everything else buildable sacrifices one for the other. It pales in comparison to a fusion pulse engine like Vista, but even with the Orion as it is, using a fraction of the nuclear detonation energy (even with shaped nuclear charges which aren't perfect), it has a very high energy content to it's fuel.

Yes, and the key is: How much is this fraction exactly? What does a nuclear detonation? It produces a lot of radiation(from heat to gamma) + some particles that where the bomb before + a decenct neutronflux. In the atmosphere, the radiation (and the neutrons) are superheating the atmosphere nerby, that causes the shockwave which do the "work".

But in space, there is no atmosphere.

That means, all radiation and neutrons and particles are going in every direction equaly. That means, even if the distance from the exploding bomb to the "bumpplate" is zero (which can't be), only the half of the "explosion energy" is hitting the plate. From this half, only a very tiny amount will be fast moving particles, that can actualy produce some sort of thrust. From these tiny fraction, only a tiny fraction will have the right angle to push the plate (the vast majory will be reflected without transferring kinetic energy). But the most energy of the detonation will be radiation + neutron flux. What does that with the plate? It heats (and activate) it! Yeah! (Actual, the vaporization of some plate material will provide additional thrust, but it will be also very tiny)

So yes, i don't think the "orion drive" can work as told. Simply because it don't transfer the energy it produce in some kind of reaction mass properly. And it don't direct the reaction mass properly. And undirected energy/reaction mass don't produce thrust. No matter how many energy you have.

You simply need a kind of nozzle, that help you to direct the reaction mass, and you need a device that can transfer a decent amount of your energy into the reaction mass. (and not in the vessel superstructure)

[XanderTek]

Fractal, would it be possible to give the plasma and thermal engines some sort of approximate thrust and isp numbers that remain even when the drive is powered down? As it is now, the thrust reads zero when the engine is off, which confuses the hell out of mechjeb. It thinks the next node burn will take infinite time, so it starts burning immediately even if you're hours away from the node. Ideally mechjeb would have access to the exact specs for the engine with its current fuel, settings, and upgrades. But even if it just had a rough number that was somewhere close, MJ node execution would be possible.

...So yes, i don't think the "orion drive" can work as told. Simply because it don't transfer the energy it produce in some kind of reaction mass properly. And it don't direct the reaction mass properly. And undirected energy/reaction mass don't produce thrust. No matter how many energy you have.

You simply need a kind of nozzle, that help you to direct the reaction mass, and you need a device that can transfer a decent amount of your energy into the reaction mass. (and not in the vessel superstructure)

You can read more about Orion engines here. Shaped charges would direct a significant amount of the blast energy towards the pusher plate. This isn't some crazy idea worked up by folks on these forums. Its a very high performance propulsion system that likely could have done crazy missions like round trip to mars (from earth's surface) in a single stage.

Edited November 18, 2013 by XanderTek

[Hremsfeld]

Hi Fractal_UK,

I think, a "orion drive" in real would have a anemic thrust and ISP in space. So, you can simulate it in game with stock parts: Simple bring a lot decouplers with you and throw them off one by one....

In addition to what XanderTek was saying, there were plans to send a manned mission to Saturn by the mid 1970s. I don't mean manned like Apollo, I mean manned like a naval vessel. Dedicated cooks, janitors, everything. Orion might sound like sci-fi, but it was very much real and could still be done if people didn't freak out whenever the word "nuclear" comes up.