[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[Shtirliz72]

This mod has been around since .18, i think? it was on version 8 when i started modding in .22. the dependencies of this mod are outdated because they used to not be and time is unrelenting.

So Interstellar mod will work without error if I replace all these dependences to newer one? I just already use them.

[ABZB]

Would anyone happen to know if the magnetic nozzle module would function properly if I utilized the multimodeengines to allow myself an additional fuel choice?

[bertibott]

hi,

i have two problems:

i put an ISRU refinery on minmus and it is not working. my lander has solarpanels. but no reactor or anything that produces megajoules. Does the refinery require megajoules (in this case i would humbly apologize for wasting everyones time and bang my head against my desk)?

so.. now for the real problem:

the spectrometer (? is that what it's called... the thingy that can display uranium and thorium hotspots) is not working. it does not show any hotspots (i tried kerbin, mun and minmus). i am using karbonite and extraplanetary launchpads and had a similar problem with the ore detection. the problem was solved by using a different .cfg file.

Will there still be uranium/thorium even if it does not show any on the map?

[RodKenobi]

Is this how the engine effects for the plasma thruster supposed to look like? A slow moving puff of smoke? Doesn't look very.... thrusting.

[Rune]

http://i.imgur.com/YNyfYo3.jpg

Is this how the engine effects for the plasma thruster supposed to look like? A slow moving puff of smoke? Doesn't look very.... thrusting.

The plasma drive is not very thrusty itself xD. Not that it would be visible in RL, but an ion-like exhaust (that is, the engine glows slightly) would perhaps be more accurate. You are welcome to create an effect and offer it to Fractal, I'm sure he would be happy about that! And I assume with HotRockets you would be able to config it yourself to some other existing one you like more.

hi,

i have two problems:

i put an ISRU refinery on minmus and it is not working. my lander has solarpanels. but no reactor or anything that produces megajoules. Does the refinery require megajoules (in this case i would humbly apologize for wasting everyones time and bang my head against my desk)?

so.. now for the real problem:

the spectrometer (? is that what it's called... the thingy that can display uranium and thorium hotspots) is not working. it does not show any hotspots (i tried kerbin, mun and minmus). i am using karbonite and extraplanetary launchpads and had a similar problem with the ore detection. the problem was solved by using a different .cfg file.

Will there still be uranium/thorium even if it does not show any on the map?

Never tried the refinery without at least a fission reactor myself, because the refinery can then get uranium/thorium anywhere (to answer your second question) and that way I can also breed Tritium while I do the other stuff. But ISRU consumes a lot of power, 5MW for the single process, so that might be it.

You need an atmospheric scoop (nitrogen) and liquid fuel (hydrogen) to make ammonia I believe. You can make hydrogen with electrolysis of water. Be sure to check your fuel lines.

Yup, I got the theoretical idea, but to run the scoop you need to be going mucho fast, I think, because my multipurpose land refinery wasn't getting any. I guess, thinking more on it, I am asking for kerbals to finally develop turbo-compression machinery. And I'm not 100% sure if there is an actual tank to hold the nitrogen, or if I was getting the option for "Haber process" now that I think about it, but then again I hadn't any Nitrogen collected so why should I. I know I tested everything else just putting some ammonia in the refinery tank on the hangar.

As of this morning, tritium breeding a fuel-mode swapping seem to have mysteriously fixed themselves. I'm still puzzled as to how to run magnetic nozzles at full power, though - in the VAB, it says their maximum thrust is 650 kN and max Isp is 32000s, but I don't even get a third of that when I hook them up to a 3.75-meter fusion reactor. I also tried putting an antimatter reactor behind the fusion one to see if jamming more electricity into the system would help, but that didn't do anything either. I'm still confused: can the magnetic nozzles even be run at full power? If so, how? I still have yet to get more thrust or Isp out of them than a plasma engine of similar size.

Glad to see you are working your way through your problems. As to powering them completely... probably something you have to wait for antimatter to do. I assume you are using D-He fusion, as that gives 80% of the output power as charged particles (x4 power output towards electric drive, 25% for thermal ones with respect to D-T fusion).

Didn't FractalUK recently add in the Haber Process, after I extensively bugged him to add it in, so that we could produce Ammonia on Kerbin? Or was that just my imagination? (now I'm going to have to go load up an ISRU reactor on the pad, and see if it's got the Haber Process listed anywhere...)

If not... see my next post.

Regards,

Northstar

Yeah, yeah, it's there (in the FAQ at least), which is why I tried it... I just couldn't get it working myself, and that might be my own fault. Asking I usually end up learning sooner! Anyhow, I'll test some more with a scooping plane, see where I get.

Rune. I'm trying to close the supply loop on KSC so I can launch without resources, just for the heck of it.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Rune

[ABZB]

The magnetic nozzles only use chargedparticles. The antimatter reactors only produce thermalpower.

I looked over the relevant .cs file on github:

Basically, the max power is determined the reactors maximum chargedparticles production. (MW*charged particle ratio).

The ISP is determined by the MeVPerChargedProduct (listed in the ReactorFuels.cfg). ISP increases as the square root of MeVPerChargedProduct.

Max thrust is the max power divided by the ISP (and then multiplied by a number of other terms, such as the current throttle, radius match-ups, etc.)

Assuming a reactor of 100MW (for simple comparison)

| Power (as CP) | ISP (rounded to nearest integer) | Thrust|

DT* : 20 MW | 10850 | 37.6

DH-3**: 80 MW | 12016 | 135.8

H-3** : 100 MW | 9776 | 208.6

AIM* : 80MW | 12016 | 135.8

UN2** : 83.5MW | 9811 | 173.6

* both before and after upgrading

** only upgraded reactor

EDIT: Note that since ISPs depend only on the fuel mode - so to determine the ideal thrust for a given reactor, just multiply Thrust by the power of the desired reactor (in MW, 1000MW = 1 GW) divided by 100.

Edited October 26, 2014 by ABZB

[Avernikas]

I seem to be having an issue with the tech tree. I think the tree is loaded, but some nodes don't want to appear. (it also looks different from the screenshot from the first post, but I'm guessing its just not up to date).

I have nodes like experimental electronics, and nanonlathing, but nothing beyond those, no fusion for example. The "tree" file from the WarpPlugin folder is in my save folder, moved it in manually to be sure.

I also tried this on a brand new copy of the game, with no other mods installed, hope I'm not missing something obvious....

Here is the fully unlocked tree.

EDIT: I don't think nanolathing is even part of KSPI, its from kerbal attatchment system isn't it.... Then why is it in the "tree" file I got with KSPI...

Edited October 26, 2014 by Avernikas

[GreeningGalaxy]

Alright, that table is helpful. Thanks!

I understand that the nozzles only use charged particles as it is; my main annoyances were that a) the part description in the VAB gives you numbers (650kN / 36000s) that you never even come close to achieving in practice, and with the new Isp nerf on thermal rockets, it's no longer possible to achieve very high Isp with decent thrust using antimatter - only somewhat high Isp with ridiculously overkill thrust. I was hoping that magnetic nozzles would open the door to beam-core antimatter rockets (which could just have the same stats as a version .12 thermal rocket connected to an antimatter reactor), but this doesn't seem to be an option yet. As it is, I'm just wondering what the point of actually trying to collect antimatter is when you can just stick a DT-Vista on something and get five times the Isp you'd get with antimatter, and at a cost which is still quite considerable but also probably less than flying all the way out to Jool and back.

I suppose I haven't tried making electricity with antimatter and putting it through a plasma engine, but in my experience in previous versions, that turns out to be pretty inefficient because you have to haul around a hundred giant radiators and the Carnot efficiency of the generator isn't great.

I totally get how thermal rockets have a maximum potential Isp and the newly-added magnetic nozzle parts are specifically designed for nuclear reactors - It's just, now that we're not pretending that thermal nozzles attached to antimatter reactors are plasma-core antimatter engines anymore, it would be cool to see actual plasma-core antimatter engines.

[undercoveryankee]

Alright, that table is helpful. Thanks!

I understand that the nozzles only use charged particles as it is; my main annoyances were that a) the part description in the VAB gives you numbers (650kN / 36000s) that you never even come close to achieving in practice, and with the new Isp nerf on thermal rockets, it's no longer possible to achieve very high Isp with decent thrust using antimatter - only somewhat high Isp with ridiculously overkill thrust. I was hoping that magnetic nozzles would open the door to beam-core antimatter rockets (which could just have the same stats as a version .12 thermal rocket connected to an antimatter reactor), but this doesn't seem to be an option yet. As it is, I'm just wondering what the point of actually trying to collect antimatter is when you can just stick a DT-Vista on something and get five times the Isp you'd get with antimatter, and at a cost which is still quite considerable but also probably less than flying all the way out to Jool and back.

I suppose I haven't tried making electricity with antimatter and putting it through a plasma engine, but in my experience in previous versions, that turns out to be pretty inefficient because you have to haul around a hundred giant radiators and the Carnot efficiency of the generator isn't great.

I totally get how thermal rockets have a maximum potential Isp and the newly-added magnetic nozzle parts are specifically designed for nuclear reactors - It's just, now that we're not pretending that thermal nozzles attached to antimatter reactors are plasma-core antimatter engines anymore, it would be cool to see actual plasma-core antimatter engines.

I think all the code to do that is already in the plugin. Just need to give the upgraded AM reactor an operating mode that produces charged particles.

[ABZB]

I think all the code to do that is already in the plugin. Just need to give the upgraded AM reactor an operating mode that produces charged particles.

I added a couple of modes to the fusion reactors that make use of Karborundum

[Insanitic]

Is there a limit to how many recievers can be connected to a relay power grid? I have set up a base on the Mun made up of 2 ISRU refineries (so far) to mine for water and create fuel. One of the miners receives power from my fusion power generators in orbit around Kerbin (yes I know, it's FILLED with relays and power generators because I was getting desperate), but the other doesn't, even when the other IS RIGHT NEXT TO THE ONE RECEIVING POWER and has it's receiver dish angled at the same direction. as the one that is receiving power. Can anybody provide insight to this? I have included screenshots of my power grid around Kerbin and my two miners.

[Northstar1989]

hi,

i have two problems:

i put an ISRU refinery on minmus and it is not working. my lander has solarpanels. but no reactor or anything that produces megajoules. Does the refinery require megajoules (in this case i would humbly apologize for wasting everyones time and bang my head against my desk)?

The ISRU Refinery *DOES* require MJ, but the solar panels ARE capable of producing them, if Ec production >> Ec demand.

I just tested using an ISRU refinery with nothing but solar panels attached to electrolyze water last night (as part of working to circumvent Hydrogen boil-off in RealFuels- which still doesn't yet have any way to spend electricity to actively cool your fuels and mitigate boil-off...), and it worked fine. Just keep in mind you need a LOT of solar panels- I had 16 of the 1x3 stock solar panels attached, as well as about 24 OX-STAT panels, and the thing was barely moving at a snail's pace (ofc this was INSIDE Kerbin's atmosphere, where solar panels are much less effective).

So you'll need a LOT of solar panels to run your ISRU refinery off ground-based solar power on Minmus- at least a dozen Gigantor panels to get any kind of a decent rate. At that point, you're better off just leaving the solar panels in orbit of Minmus, and relying on an orbital Microwave Beamed Power design so that less of the sunlight will be obstructed by Minmus' terrain, since you'll save a lot of mass on landing legs and descent fuel this way (you will also need to set up some orbital relays so you can receive solar power when the satellites are on the opposite side of Minmus- but all those require is a Microwave Transceiver and a probe core to function...)

Regards,

Northstar

[Northstar1989]

Is there a limit to how many recievers can be connected to a relay power grid? I have set up a base on the Mun made up of 2 ISRU refineries (so far) to mine for water and create fuel. One of the miners receives power from my fusion power generators in orbit around Kerbin (yes I know, it's FILLED with relays and power generators because I was getting desperate), but the other doesn't, even when the other IS RIGHT NEXT TO THE ONE RECEIVING POWER and has it's receiver dish angled at the same direction. as the one that is receiving power. Can anybody provide insight to this? I have included screenshots of my power grid around Kerbin and my two miners.

http://s10.postimg.org/vawk96pnp/2014_10_26_00001.jpg http://s10.postimg.org/665jvrq79/2014_10_26_00003.jpg

That's because all the power is going to the first refinery, even if it doesn't need it. This a current known issue with the Microwave Beamed Power system. Set up the refineries more than 2.5 km apart, or connecting them with KAS pipes/winches so that they share the same power supply as a workaround...

Regards,

Northstar

[Insanitic]

That's because all the power is going to the first refinery, even if it doesn't need it. This a current known issue with the Microwave Beamed Power system. Set up the refineries more than 2.5 km apart, or connecting them with KAS pipes/winches so that they share the same power supply as a workaround...

Regards,

Northstar

Thanks for your prompt answer Northstar. That clears up a lot of things.

So I turn off one of the recievers on one of the refineries and then just connect them? Ok I shall try that.

Is there a bug list for this mod? I seem to run into a lot because I'm using the beamed power feature extensively.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Insanitic

[JMFricks]

Is there a problem with the tech tree? My tech tree looks nothing like the screenshot and I've already made it quite far. I've tried doing what the wiki suggests by opening the persistent file of a new KSPi game, however there are no lines in the beginning of the file related to the tech tree at all. I am stuck.

[merendel]

Thanks for your prompt answer Northstar. That clears up a lot of things.

So I turn off one of the recievers on one of the refineries and then just connect them? Ok I shall try that.

Is there a bug list for this mod? I seem to run into a lot because I'm using the beamed power feature extensively.

Shouldnt need to turn off the recievers if you plan to connect them. Once connected they are considered a single ship and multipule recievers on a single ship dont have an issue, they just may not offer any benifit over a single reciever if both are faceing the same way.

Is there a problem with the tech tree? My tech tree looks nothing like the screenshot and I've already made it quite far. I've tried doing what the wiki suggests by opening the persistent file of a new KSPi game, however there are no lines in the beginning of the file related to the tech tree at all. I am stuck.

Treeloader, the mod that alowed for the extra nodes to be created, burned up on reentry to .25. The license does not alow for anybody else to fix it and the author is MIA so things are stuck untill someone manages to code up a replacement. There are some module manager configs a few pages back that work as a temporary work around to at least alow everything to unlock, it will just be different than what the OP displays.

edit heres a link to the post that compiles all the fixes into one place http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/43839-0-25-KSP-Interstellar-%28Magnetic-Nozzles-ISRU-Revamp%29-Version-0-13?p=1495408&viewfull=1#post1495408

Edited October 26, 2014 by merendel

[Rebelgamer]

From the Treeloader thread:

News Update

I just talked to r4m0n. He has been incredibly busy with work (most recently 18hrs straight work), but has promised me that by the middle of next week he'll post here and get things back on track (his words).

[KhitSicker]

What am I doing wrong .... I am trying to setup a beamed power network to use the isru and inline refineries. Nothing is working. I have the orbital power station on a fusion reactor at a 225km orbit and 3 power relay satellites in a geosynchronous orbit 120 degs apart. none of the relays seem to connect to each other. The reactors seem to be working and providing power though not as much as they should. Ive already done some searching as well as watching the tutorial videos and I have followed thier advice but something seems to not be right.

Screen shots

http://imgur.com/a/dNGhD#0

[Northstar1989]

Shouldnt need to turn off the recievers if you plan to connect them. Once connected they are considered a single ship and multipule recievers on a single ship dont have an issue, they just may not offer any benifit over a single reciever if both are faceing the same way.

Actually, there *IS* a benefit to having multiple receivers. It counts as having a larger total receiver area, and you'll get a *slightly* lower rate of transmission-loss. As in, maybe a couple fractions of a percent more total received power. And no two receivers ever have *exactly* the same path-length, or face *precisely* the same way, so there's always the benefits from that... (in fact, maybe the benefits I noticed from having multiple receivers on a single craft, even facing the same way, were just due to that... Although in real life, multiple receivers do amount to *slightly* lower transmission losses...)

Regards,

Northstar

[anonish]

I have released TechManager, a new mod that can create new tech nodes / modify tech nodes. Basically, a TreeLoader replacement. It is my *own* implementation, not a modification of TreeLoader, although it does consume the same tree.cfg file. Please have a look and confirm that for yourself if you would like. Its new, there are likely bugs, and r4m0n is apparently going to fix TreeLoader, but TechManger is released under a MIT license, so you can do pretty much what ever you want with it.

TechManager can be talked about here

TechManager can be downloaded from KerbalStuff.com

Edited October 27, 2014 by anonish

[Ariane5]

Thanks for the patches but I'm not that good at coding (I am learning!), so is there any way you could send me a link to download the cfg. files or tell me how to save something as a config file, Thanks.

[bertibott]

The ISRU Refinery *DOES* require MJ, but the solar panels ARE capable of producing them, if Ec production >> Ec demand.

I just tested using an ISRU refinery with nothing but solar panels attached to electrolyze water last night (as part of working to circumvent Hydrogen boil-off in RealFuels- which still doesn't yet have any way to spend electricity to actively cool your fuels and mitigate boil-off...), and it worked fine. Just keep in mind you need a LOT of solar panels- I had 16 of the 1x3 stock solar panels attached, as well as about 24 OX-STAT panels, and the thing was barely moving at a snail's pace (ofc this was INSIDE Kerbin's atmosphere, where solar panels are much less effective).

So you'll need a LOT of solar panels to run your ISRU refinery off ground-based solar power on Minmus- at least a dozen Gigantor panels to get any kind of a decent rate. At that point, you're better off just leaving the solar panels in orbit of Minmus, and relying on an orbital Microwave Beamed Power design so that less of the sunlight will be obstructed by Minmus' terrain, since you'll save a lot of mass on landing legs and descent fuel this way (you will also need to set up some orbital relays so you can receive solar power when the satellites are on the opposite side of Minmus- but all those require is a Microwave Transceiver and a probe core to function...)

Regards,

Northstar

Thanks a lot.

I tried an ISRU with a nuclear reactor and a generator... still nothing the thing won't even change it's status from "offline".

So I am guessing there is something broken with my install. Are there any known Issues with other Mods Especially Karbonite and Extraplanetary Launchpads?

And if not, what should I do next, to find out whats wrong? (Except for buying a family-sized Ice-Cream container and deciding which mod to part with... )

[Atrius129]

I have released TechManager, a new mod that can create new tech nodes / modify tech nodes. Basically, a TreeLoader replacement. It is my *own* implementation, not a modification of TreeLoader, although it does consume the same tree.cfg file. Please have a look and confirm that for yourself if you would like. Its new, there are likely bugs, and r4m0n is apparently going to fix TreeLoader, but TechManger is released under a MIT license, so you can do pretty much what ever you want with it.

TechManager can be talked about here

TechManager can be downloaded from KerbalStuff.com

Wow, great work. So you just install mod, load the tree.cfg and Interstellar tech tree will work again?

[BigD145]

Wow, great work. So you just install mod, load the tree.cfg and Interstellar tech tree will work again?

"One MAJOR way this mod differs from TreeLoader (besides working with .25) is that you must define the ENTIRE tech tree. You can not simply put only the new nodes in the file. TechManager works by inactivating all of the tech nodes it sees at start up and then loads in whats in the file."

KSPI only specifies nodes it uses. From what I'm reading you'd have to also have to add the stock nodes that KSPI does not mention.

[anonish]

"One MAJOR way this mod differs from TreeLoader (besides working with .25) is that you must define the ENTIRE tech tree. You can not simply put only the new nodes in the file. TechManager works by inactivating all of the tech nodes it sees at start up and then loads in whats in the file."

KSPI only specifies nodes it uses. From what I'm reading you'd have to also have to add the stock nodes that KSPI does not mention.

Nope. Not from what I saw anyway. I developed TechManager specifically against the tree.cfg that comes with Interstellar. Install TechManager and KSPI, but without TreeLoader, and you should be good on a new game. KSPI itself will put tree.cfg into your save game folder if you click on the "Interstellar tech tree update" box that pops up (and a restart is NOT required). If not, just manually put tree.cfg into your save game folder.

You can test by creating a custom game, giving yourself 5000 science and then digging deep enough into the tree to get at least one KSPI tech.

Edited October 27, 2014 by anonish