[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[Modemus]

Treeloader is currently broken and is causing some issues. We are resorting to this workaround for the time being:

Hi,

No, Interstellar 0.13 still has the issue with the custom tree in 0.25

The fix is easy, thanks to UndercoverYankee (page 1190, post 11898.)

Step one: Move or delete the TreeLoader folder in Gamedata out of the KSP folder

Step Two: Download the file linked on the page/post above, and place it in you KSP root folder

The progression will be different, as some parts will be on different nodes, but it's playable.

I hope that helps,

Bolter

so it should look like C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Kerbal Space Program/KSPI-0.13-no-treeloader then?

[BigD145]

Kerbal Space Program\GameData\Interstellar

remove

Kerbal Space Program\GameData\Treeloader

[anonish]

Treeloader is currently broken and is causing some issues. We are resorting to this workaround for the time being:

Okay, so, I wanted to see what the problem with TreeLoader was so I got the source and started poking around. It turns out though that I didn't have to change *anything* to get it to work again. Literally, took the source and compiled it. I realize it was released under a restrictive license that prevents changes, but I didn't change anything... I'm guessing it just had to be re-referenced against some updated ksp/unity/mono assemblies. In my opinion, releasing the 'new' binary is not a violation of copyright, but I will defer to others in here who are more in tune with the modding community, so let me know what you think. Also, you can compile it yourself to confirm what I'm saying if you wish.

[ian9018]

All rights reserved, I'm pretty sure that prevents anyone doing anything with it including what you suggest. However, that doesn't prevent me (for instance, could be anyone) from compiling the unmodified source myself, for my own use. I think anyways... Is that how open source works?

[RodKenobi]

Alright, any way to buff the Magnetic Nozzle thrust? I liked the convenience of high thrust and ISP of the thermal rockets when coupled with upgraded fusion reactors. Yeah, not very realistic, so the magnetic nozzles are a good idea.

But c'mon. These thrust levels are brutally low. Show stopper for me.

So, is there any way to edit .cfg files to increase the thrust level? I tried playing with a few parameters, but I don't really know what I'm doing there, so no big surprise that I failed.

[AetherGoddess]

Okay, so, I wanted to see what the problem with TreeLoader was so I got the source and started poking around. It turns out though that I didn't have to change *anything* to get it to work again. Literally, took the source and compiled it. I realize it was released under a restrictive license that prevents changes, but I didn't change anything... I'm guessing it just had to be re-referenced against some updated ksp/unity/mono assemblies. In my opinion, releasing the 'new' binary is not a violation of copyright, but I will defer to others in here who are more in tune with the modding community, so let me know what you think. Also, you can compile it yourself to confirm what I'm saying if you wish.

All rights reserved, I'm pretty sure that prevents anyone doing anything with it including what you suggest. However, that doesn't prevent me (for instance, could be anyone) from compiling the unmodified source myself, for my own use. I think anyways... Is that how open source works?

Neither of those are true. "all rights reserved" means exactly what it sounds like. all rights, including the right to recompile or redistribute, are reserved by the creator and can not be exercised without permission. the treeloader license explicitly states that the source is for reference only; compiling is not reference. as has been previously stated in this thread, no one is going to go to jail over it, but ignoring creators rights is an excellent way to have less creators.

[MingusDew]

Alright, any way to buff the Magnetic Nozzle thrust? I liked the convenience of high thrust and ISP of the thermal rockets when coupled with upgraded fusion reactors. Yeah, not very realistic, so the magnetic nozzles are a good idea.

But c'mon. These thrust levels are brutally low. Show stopper for me.

So, is there any way to edit .cfg files to increase the thrust level? I tried playing with a few parameters, but I don't really know what I'm doing there, so no big surprise that I failed.

I must be messing something up, because I can't get them to even work. In the SPH/VAB they show TWR with mechjeb delta-v stats, but when I launch the craft it won't come online. I'm using a fusion generator, and it doesn't make a difference if I am changing to h3 or d/t or d/h, I've tried mounting the magnetic nozzle in a few different configurations and it hasn't made a difference. Not quiet sure how to hook it up I guess, and I haven't found any documentation with any type of explanation yet ...

[BFGfreak]

Have you tried turning it on in space?

[Ippo]

Neither of those are true. "all rights reserved" means exactly what it sounds like. all rights, including the right to recompile or redistribute, are reserved by the creator and can not be exercised without permission. the treeloader license explicitly states that the source is for reference only; compiling is not reference. as has been previously stated in this thread, no one is going to go to jail over it, but ignoring creators rights is an excellent way to have less creators.

However, I'm pretty sure that modifications made for personal use can probably get away with "fair use".

The point is rendered moot by the fact that the source that r4m0n posted is incomplete, and this brings me to my next question:

Okay, so, I wanted to see what the problem with TreeLoader was so I got the source and started poking around. It turns out though that I didn't have to change *anything* to get it to work again. Literally, took the source and compiled it.

Wat. Where did you find the class TreeListItemData? It's not in the source, and it's not from KSP... I'll pm you.

[Grunf911]

I created a .cfg-file (e.g. "KSP-0.25-fixes.cfg") and added it to the WarpPlugin folder (although you could also put it directly into GameData afaik).

This should integrate all the fixes of the last few pages:

@PART[AntimatterReactor*] {
    @TechRequired = advScienceTech
    @MODULE[FNAntimatterReactor] {
        @upgradeTechReq = experimentalScience
    }
}

@PART[AntimatterTank*] {
    @TechRequired = advScienceTech
}

@PART[FNFissionFusionCatReactor] {
    @TechRequired = specializedElectrics
    @MODULE[InterstellarCatalysedFissionFusion] {
        @upgradeTechReq = experimentalElectrics
    }
}

@PART[FusionReactor250,FusionReactor375] {
    @TechRequired = metaMaterials
    @MODULE[InterstellarTokamakFusionReator] {
        @upgradeTechReq = nanolathing
    }
}

+PART[FusionReactor250] {
    //@name = placeholder_fusion_upgrade
    @name = placeholder.fusion.upgrade
    @TechRequired = nanolathing
    @category = -1
    @title = Tokamak Upgrade
}

@PART[NuclearReactor*,FNPFissionReactor*] {
    @MODULE[InterstellarFissionMSRGC,InterstellarFissionPBDP] {
        @upgradeTechReq = metaMaterials
    }
}

@PART[FusionReactor0625,FusionReactor125] {
    @techRequired = specializedElectrics
    @MODULE[InterstellarInertialConfinementReactor] {
        @upgradeTechReq = experimentalElectrics
    }
}

@PART[*MPD] {
    @MODULE[ElectricEngineControllerFX] {
        @upgradeTechReq = experimentalScience
    }
}

@PART[ThermalTurbojet*] {
    @MODULE[FNNozzleController] {
        @upgradeTechReq = hypersonicFlight
    }
}

@PART[KSPIMagneticNozzle1]:Final
{
    @node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.401, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1
    @node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.21, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1
}
@PART[KSPIMagneticNozzle2]:Final
{
    @node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.80, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
    @node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.50, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
}
@PART[KSPIMagneticNozzle3]:Final
{
    @node_stack_top = 0.0, 1.205, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
    @node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.75, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
}

Also delete the TreeLoader folder from GameData.

I agree, there should be at least some warning in the initial post, maybe with a link to the workarounds suggested here.

Awesome, thx

[FrancoisH]

As I'm using Karbonite, which use ORS already, and that treeview which is broken and I just removed. Do I just need to put the Warp folder from the latest release plus the fixes PhoenixXYZ suggested a few pages ago?

[SilentWindOfDoom]

I am using Karbonite too. I have removed the treeloader folder and placed the KSPI-0.13-no-treeloader.cfg file linked in this thread into the WarpPlugin folder. The tech tree is still broken though, it doesnt offer progression past experimental rocketry/electrics etc. Do i need to start a new game for this fix to take effect?

[RoverDude]

As I'm using Karbonite, which use ORS already, and that treeview which is broken and I just removed. Do I just need to put the Warp folder from the latest release plus the fixes PhoenixXYZ suggested a few pages ago?

FYI - Karbonite uses a fork of ORS (It's in the ORSX folder), not the same ORS used by KSP-I. Fortunately the two do not conflict.

[Tebryn]

I am using Karbonite too. I have removed the treeloader folder and placed the KSPI-0.13-no-treeloader.cfg file linked in this thread into the WarpPlugin folder. The tech tree is still broken though, it doesnt offer progression past experimental rocketry/electrics etc. Do i need to start a new game for this fix to take effect?

The fix moves parts onto the stock tree a little better than the failover method they use by default. with no treeloader we have no new tech tree nodes. the patch takes effect as soon as it's installed. and when you remove it, the parts will revert to original configuration.

so until we get a treeloader replacement, you wont see tech nodes past the stock experimental nodes.

[stellarator]

I can't research far than fission reactors and methane engines! Why? How can I fix it?!

Please, i need fusion engines to made SSTO and Interplanetray-not expensive-ships!

[TheGatesofLogic]

I'm still running into issues with the scaling of the magnetic nozzles. Anyone able to help with this or having the same issue? The nozzles appear to be scaled down just slightly so the nodes float above the model and they are slightly smaller than the part size they should be.

[Northstar1989]

@FractalUK

Since this thread seems to move fast, and you'll probably miss my last post by the time you log back on, I just wanted to remind you that the KSP-Interstellar Meth/LOX chemical engine lags *significantly* behind the real-world "Raptor" Meth/LOX engine design on which it's clearly based, in terms of both TWR and ISP:

Interstellar's "Deinonychus 1-D"

Thrust 1425 kN (thrust does not vary with atmospheric pressure in stock engine module)

Mass 3500 kg (for the record- what TWR is that?)

ASL ISP 309 s

VAC ISP 368 s

Space-X's "Raptor"

ASL Thrust 6900 kN

VAC Thrust 8200 kN

Mass Unknown- but TWR predicted likely to exceed 120

ASL ISP 321 s

VAC ISP 380 s

Any fixes to this would definitely be appreciated. I've already begun an effort to fix this with the RealFuels "Stockalike" engine config installed, but simply correcting the TWR and ISP values in the base mod would obviously be far easier (and eliminate the need for another ModuleManager patch- keeping load times from getting any longer as a result...)

The Raptor engine is actually designed to be *EXACTLY* 2.5 meters in diameter (so that 9 of them can fit on the bottom of a Mars Colonial Transporter), so the Thrust values are too low for its size as well as its mass being too high for the thrust it *does* currently produce...

Currently, the Deinonychus is best used as a mid-stage engine, but the *ACTUAL* Raptor engine is designed as a first-stage heavy-lifter engine, which is why its thrust is so high (the technology that goes into it is also extremely advanced). *IF* it were being designed as an orbital engine, its Vacuum ISP would be *even higher*, as its engine nozzle would be designed for better performance in vacuum...

Not the best source, but good enough for engine diameter (the ISP/TWR values come from elsewhere, but are the same on Wikipedia)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raptor_%28rocket_engine%29

Regards,

Northstar

Edited October 20, 2014 by Northstar1989

[SilentWindOfDoom]

The fix moves parts onto the stock tree a little better than the failover method they use by default. with no treeloader we have no new tech tree nodes. the patch takes effect as soon as it's installed. and when you remove it, the parts will revert to original configuration.

so until we get a treeloader replacement, you wont see tech nodes past the stock experimental nodes.

Gotcha.

Though the fix changes nothing for me. Using the KSPI techtree originally i only installed the "fix" when i unlocked everything I could, but nothing has been moved, at this point everything past experimental is just not available anywhere.

[Cybersneeze]

I can only guess that this has been reported all ready, but I am unable to access any technologies on the tech tree beyond experimental; or more accurately, the node in which you unlock the ai core. Is their currently a fix for this, or is this something I will have to cope with for the foreseeable future. Any information is greatly received.

[Modemus]

Treeloader is currently broken and is causing some issues. We are resorting to this workaround for the time being:

I created a .cfg-file (e.g. "KSP-0.25-fixes.cfg") and added it to the WarpPlugin folder (although you could also put it directly into GameData afaik).

This should integrate all the fixes of the last few pages:

@PART[AntimatterReactor*] {
    @TechRequired = advScienceTech
    @MODULE[FNAntimatterReactor] {
        @upgradeTechReq = experimentalScience
    }
}

@PART[AntimatterTank*] {
    @TechRequired = advScienceTech
}

@PART[FNFissionFusionCatReactor] {
    @TechRequired = specializedElectrics
    @MODULE[InterstellarCatalysedFissionFusion] {
        @upgradeTechReq = experimentalElectrics
    }
}

@PART[FusionReactor250,FusionReactor375] {
    @TechRequired = metaMaterials
    @MODULE[InterstellarTokamakFusionReator] {
        @upgradeTechReq = nanolathing
    }
}

+PART[FusionReactor250] {
    //@name = placeholder_fusion_upgrade
    @name = placeholder.fusion.upgrade
    @TechRequired = nanolathing
    @category = -1
    @title = Tokamak Upgrade
}

@PART[NuclearReactor*,FNPFissionReactor*] {
    @MODULE[InterstellarFissionMSRGC,InterstellarFissionPBDP] {
        @upgradeTechReq = metaMaterials
    }
}

@PART[FusionReactor0625,FusionReactor125] {
    @techRequired = specializedElectrics
    @MODULE[InterstellarInertialConfinementReactor] {
        @upgradeTechReq = experimentalElectrics
    }
}

@PART[*MPD] {
    @MODULE[ElectricEngineControllerFX] {
        @upgradeTechReq = experimentalScience
    }
}

@PART[ThermalTurbojet*] {
    @MODULE[FNNozzleController] {
        @upgradeTechReq = hypersonicFlight
    }
}

@PART[KSPIMagneticNozzle1]:Final
{
    @node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.401, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1
    @node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.21, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1
}
@PART[KSPIMagneticNozzle2]:Final
{
    @node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.80, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
    @node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.50, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
}
@PART[KSPIMagneticNozzle3]:Final
{
    @node_stack_top = 0.0, 1.205, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
    @node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.75, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
}

Also delete the TreeLoader folder from GameData.

not only did this work perfectly, but it also fixed the tech tree bug where if i researched a node, i would have to exit R&D and re-enter in order to see the next node to unlock, thanks so much!

[RodKenobi]

I must be messing something up, because I can't get them to even work. In the SPH/VAB they show TWR with mechjeb delta-v stats, but when I launch the craft it won't come online. I'm using a fusion generator, and it doesn't make a difference if I am changing to h3 or d/t or d/h, I've tried mounting the magnetic nozzle in a few different configurations and it hasn't made a difference. Not quiet sure how to hook it up I guess, and I haven't found any documentation with any type of explanation yet ...

Yeah, mine only works in space. With really, really, REALLY low levels of thrust. Not fun at all to use.

So, guys.... any idea as to how to make the magnetic nozzles have more thrust?

Edited October 20, 2014 by RodKenobi

[bobprime]

So, guys.... any idea as to how to make the magnetic nozzles have more thrust?

Do you have a lot of MJ available for the amount of charged particles your reactor is generating? The ratio of charged particles to MJ seems to be a limiting factor.

[Jagzeplin]

With some mod manager tweaks, Fractal's version can be made more integrated (for example, switching KSP-I's LqdWater to Water - which makes it compatible with TAC-LS, MKS/OKS, and about a dozen other things).

this was on the MKS thread but i figured i should bring it here to ask how would one do what hes talking about. how do i change KSPIs LqdWater to water?

[I got BCed]

The Megajoules resource is handled by a custom resource handler, because the stock resource handler didn't have nearly enough of the features Fractal wanted, and is just kind of bad in general- it's part of why we have problems with things like microwave beamed power from solar panels being limited by how much Electric Charge storage you have on the craft. To uniformly use Electric Charge, you'd have to outright override the stock resource handler, and I have no idea how difficult that could be or what sort of problems it could cause, but I suspect it could be nasty.

Also, I think you may have your scaling factor backwards, unless you really are saying you want 1 EC/s to be equivalent to 1 gigawatt rather than 1 kilowatt (the stock Interstellar scaling factor is 1000 EC = 1 MJ).

ahh yeah well spotted I wanted 100EC's to be one MW.

It is a shame about the resource handler.

what about a way to remove beamed power, warp, plasma/dt engines and the ISRU's ?

Edited October 20, 2014 by I got BCed

[Bolter]

I can't research far than fission reactors and methane engines! Why? How can I fix it?!

Please, i need fusion engines to made SSTO and Interplanetray-not expensive-ships!

You're describing the custom tree problem that KSP [0.25] has with Interstellar [0.13]

You can get your missing parts if you copy the code shown above, paste onto notepad, and save as <filename>.cfg You have to select "all file type" instead of "text" in the save interface, as otherwise you'll end up with <filename>.cfg.txt and that won't help. Put that config file in any folder inside your KSP install directory. It works on the KSP root, inside the Gamedata or WarpPlugin folders. It does not matter. You must delete or move out of the KSP install your TreeLoader folder located inside the GameData folder.

Now, I've been reading a lot of posts about this fix not working, so there's definitively some confusion as to what to expect. I'll try to make things a bit clearer.

The config file "fix" works as far as making the missing parts available throughout the nodes of the DEFAULT tree. You will not be seeing the custom nodes from the familiar Interstellar tech tree anymore. The parts, however, will be available. For example, the un-upgraded Tokomaks are on the "Experimental Rocketry" where only the Methane rocketry is found. The Alcubierre drives are now under "Experimental Science." The reactor upgrades are scattered through the materials and electric nodes. Many of you will be put off by the fact that you can get all the parts for about half of the science cost as before, but do not despair, as 0.25 comes with scalable difficulty so it is no problem at all to start a game with half science to compensate. Besides, the real issue is money to buy those components at the assembly buildings, as they're not cheap.

With that said, though, there are still issues with the build even after getting around the tech tree problems. The magnetic nozzles are not working because of a zero fuel flow issue. No propellant enters the engines, even with fuel lines connected directly from a fuel tank to the engine itself. This is not a "no thrust" in atmosphere, or no charged particles issue. I have tested them way outside the magnetosphere even, and I get zero fuel flow with a full resource bar of charged particles and a fuel line plugged directly into the engine. The second issue I'm seeing is that the Alcubierre rings keep on blowing up when initiated. This may seem like an antimatter containment issue, but the fact that my command module gets instantly teleported well outside of the Kerbol solar system, minus the rest of the ship points to a different cause.

Regardless, the game is eminently playable even without the use of mag nozzles or warp rings. I'm sure that Fractal or WaveFunction will correct the issues in the fullness of time.

I hope that clarifies the "fix" for the tree issue, and the observed gameplay issues so far.

Regards,

Bolter