[1.8.1] Docking Port Alignment Indicator (Version 6.8.5 - Updated 12/14/19)

[Zenith249]

On 4/3/2022 at 5:48 PM, nerdhut said:

I'm having the same issue as others. I have manually installed the DPAI mod, but the button is not showing up in flight mode. My log file is here.  Any help is appreciated!

I had this problem for a while. For some reason it showed up again once I removed Mechjeb.

[Aelfhe1m]

On 4/3/2022 at 11:48 PM, nerdhut said:

I'm having the same issue as others. I have manually installed the DPAI mod, but the button is not showing up in flight mode. My log file is here.  Any help is appreciated!

Multiple install problems:

1. Multiple copies of ModuleManager. You should have only one ModuleManager.4.2.1.dll in the root of your GameData folder. All other MJoduleManager dlls should be removed.

2. Missing dependencies:

[WRN 15:36:59.118] AssemblyLoader: Assembly 'PatchManager' has not met dependency 'ClickThroughBlocker' V1.0.0
[WRN 15:36:59.118] AssemblyLoader: Assembly 'PatchManager' has not met dependency 'ToolbarController' V1.0.0
[WRN 15:36:59.118] AssemblyLoader: Assembly 'PatchManager' is missing 2 dependencies

3. Old version of B9PartSwitch

B9PartSwitch v2.18.0.0 / vv2.18.0

Should be using v.2.20

4. Old version of DMModuleScienceAnimate

DMModuleScienceAnimateGeneric v0.19.0.0

Should be v.0.23.0.0

5. Old version of Firespitter

Firespitter v7.3.6354.39102

Should be v.7.17

6. Mini AVC. Install Zero Mini AVC

There may be further issues with out of date versions of mods, but I stopped checking at this point. Try fixing these first.

 

[Gingt]

I believe there is a problem with my indicator.
Known as the "green cross".

To get a more precise idea, I will use the terms "X" (horizontal), "Y" (vertical) and "Z" (proximity).

What I understood was that the deviation indicator (green cross) is the representation of the positioning of the "x+y" axes of the target in relation to the ship (correct me if I'm wrong).
So, as far as I know, this cross should move opposite to the ship's direction relative to the dock.
So, if you move the ship to the right (x axis), the cross moves to the left; moving the craft backwards (y-axis), the cross would move upwards.
Moves forward, cross goes down (Just as when the ship goes up, the target goes down, when the ship moves to one side, the target moves in the opposite direction).

With me it moves correctly in relation to the X axis, horizontally (I move the ship to the right, the cross goes to the left, and vice versa).
The same does not happen in the vertical plane: once aligned with the dock, when I move "down" in relation to the target, the cross does not go up; on the contrary, it descends too.
When I move up (y-axis), the green cross goes up instead of down.

It was quite confusing at first.
Could it be that the mod I installed was the wrong way?
Or does this cross really work that way?

I would suggest that, if possible, implement buttons to invert the axes of the offset cross: one for the X-axis and one for the Y-axis.
In this way, the user could customize the orientation of the green cross as it was more comfortable to maneuver in each situation.

---

I also tried the docking camera.
https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/184038-*
I can say that it is, at least, curious what I noticed in the case of this other mod:
In this mod with camera, the Y axis (vertical) is in accordance with the direction of the ship (that is, I advance the ship, and the dock image goes down; if I move backwards, the target image goes up), while the horizontal axis moves the "wrong" way (if I move the ship sideways to the right, the dock image also goes to the same side).

In the case of the docking camera, it would be enough to provide the horizontal and/or vertical inversion of the camera image so that the player could choose the orientation of the image.
I'll post that suggestion there as well.

[Gingt]

It seems that there is no problem with the mods themselves, as I initially thought.
In the KSP installed on my PC, the green cross deviation data is linked to "cabin tip x dock target", not one "dock x other".
 

Spoiler

I installed it through ckan.
KSP 1.12.

I suppose it's something in the folders/directory.
How should I proceed?

[micha]

G'day Gingt,

I'm sorry, it's a bit difficult to understand what you're trying to say without a video, but I think I know what the issue might be.

So in "standard" rockets, the docking port is at the front (top), and in the same orientation as the cockpit. In your spaceplane, it seems that the docking port is in the middle, and facing upwards in relation to the cockpit. Even though DPAI will use your docking port as the part it uses to calculate all of the alignment displays, your craft controls will be based on your cockpit.

So I think this is why you might be confused between why the various axes aren't lining up the way you expect during your docking maneuvers.

To "fix" it, you can right-click on your docking port and select "control from here" during the docking maneuvers. That way when you thrust up/down/forward/back, it is relative to the docking port, and not your cockpit. Remember to change it back to the cockpit after you have undocked as otherwise you will have a very confusing time of flying your spaceplane afterwards!

 

To clarify, the DPAI indicators are:
* Orange crosshair - orientation of your craft's docking port (or "control from here" part) to the target docking port

* Yellow crosshair - X/Y velocity of your craft in relation to the target docking port (Z direction is indicated by the shape of the yellow crosshair, "open" when approaching the target, and an "x" when flying away)

* Green crossbars - alignment of your craft in relation to the target docking port; if they are red, the target docking port is "behind" you.
 

To "move" the green vertical bar to the right, the yellow indicator must be to the left of the centre.

To "move" the green horizontal bar up, the yellow velocity indicator must be below the centre.

If the green crossbars aren't centered, you want to "move" the yellow crosshair towards the green crossbars; not away from them. The further away from center the yellow crosshair is the faster the velocity.

In all of your pictures (except the first), you were always doing the opposite of that, and your craft wasn't even aligned with the target docking port (the orange arrow indicates the direction you should rotate your craft to align it).

The closer you get to your target, the more sensitive the display gets; think of it as an approach cone. So even if you were "perfectly" aligned and move directly towards your target, you might see the alignment indicators drift, so you'll need to compensate.  It's important to have your RCS well balanced on your craft (there's a mod to help you with that while building).

[Gingt]

9 hours ago, micha said:

G'day Gingt,

I'm sorry, it's a bit difficult to understand what you're trying to say without a video, but I think I know what the issue might be.

So in "standard" rockets, the docking port is at the front (top), and in the same orientation as the cockpit. In your spaceplane, it seems that the docking port is in the middle, and facing upwards in relation to the cockpit. Even though DPAI will use your docking port as the part it uses to calculate all of the alignment displays, your craft controls will be based on your cockpit.

So I think this is why you might be confused between why the various axes aren't lining up the way you expect during your docking maneuvers.

To "fix" it, you can right-click on your docking port and select "control from here" during the docking maneuvers. That way when you thrust up/down/forward/back, it is relative to the docking port, and not your cockpit. Remember to change it back to the cockpit after you have undocked as otherwise you will have a very confusing time of flying your spaceplane afterwards!

 

To clarify, the DPAI indicators are:
* Orange crosshair - orientation of your craft's docking port (or "control from here" part) to the target docking port

* Yellow crosshair - X/Y velocity of your craft in relation to the target docking port (Z direction is indicated by the shape of the yellow crosshair, "open" when approaching the target, and an "x" when flying away)

* Green crossbars - alignment of your craft in relation to the target docking port; if they are red, the target docking port is "behind" you.
 

To "move" the green vertical bar to the right, the yellow indicator must be to the left of the centre.

To "move" the green horizontal bar up, the yellow velocity indicator must be below the centre.

If the green crossbars aren't centered, you want to "move" the yellow crosshair towards the green crossbars; not away from them. The further away from center the yellow crosshair is the faster the velocity.

In all of your pictures (except the first), you were always doing the opposite of that, and your craft wasn't even aligned with the target docking port (the orange arrow indicates the direction you should rotate your craft to align it).

The closer you get to your target, the more sensitive the display gets; think of it as an approach cone. So even if you were "perfectly" aligned and move directly towards your target, you might see the alignment indicators drift, so you'll need to compensate.  It's important to have your RCS well balanced on your craft (there's a mod to help you with that while building).

Hello Micha.
Thanks for the explanation.
But I think I described the situation confusingly.

The fact is that I tested it both ways: controlling it from the docking port, and then from the cockpit.
Those prints show the behavior of the cross when I controlled it from the cockpit.

In an easier way:
The cross represents the position of the target on the x/y axis.
This way:
-Target behind, cross down.
-Target ahead, cross above.
-Target right, cross right.
-Target left, cross left.

With me, the vertical part is inverted:
Target up, cross down.

Below, the ship controlled from the dock:

Spoiler

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Gingt
Delete some images

[Caerfinon]

2 hours ago, Gingt said:

The fact is that I tested it both ways: controlling it from the docking port, and then from the cockpit.

I had a similar issue using the Inline Docking port (Clamp-o-tron Embutida). It seems there was a bug that that made it's orientation incorrect unless it was the root part of the vessel it it is attached to.   Worth a try. 

[OrbitalManeuvers]

3 hours ago, Gingt said:

Target behind, cross down.

I've been reading your questions and I fully admit I don't yet get what you're asking. So just gonna throw something generic out here.

When you're using "Control from Here" and DPAI, what you're seeing on the DPAI display are the required control inputs to get your "Control from here" part up against the target docking port. It doesn't matter what "direction" you might think something is, or which "direction" you think your ship needs to move - you only need to follow the DPAI display and do what it says. If you have the retrograde yellow marker (i.e. you're moving farther from the target) then the correct input is always "H" - no matter if you think that's going to move your ship "up" or "forward" or any other direction. It will be the correct input based on your parts/position. If the docking ports are rotated differently, then the outer rotational display will tell you which direction you need to rotate, which will always be Q or E no matter how your craft is built. DPAI removes the need to think "I need to go up" ... nope, you need to give your ship the control inputs dictated by the DPAI display, and let DPAI worry about what direction those inputs actually move your craft.

Idk if this makes any difference, but I see your question contain words like "behind" and "down" which aren't terribly pertinent when you're using DPAI. All that's really required is to use Control from Here, and then fly the needles.

[Gingt]

5 hours ago, Caerfinon said:

I had a similar issue using the Inline Docking port (Clamp-o-tron Embutida). It seems there was a bug that that made it's orientation incorrect unless it was the root part of the vessel it it is attached to.   Worth a try. 

Well, it hit the bull's-eye.
I tried with a module (this one with external Clamp-o-Tron), and voilá...
The orientation of the blessed green cross behaved perfectly in the module in relation to the target.

Really, the problem is with the Inline Clamp-o-Tron.
The mod is working perfectly.

Spoiler

 

5 hours ago, OrbitalManeuvers said:

I've been reading your questions and I fully admit I don't yet get what you're asking. So just gonna throw something generic out here.

When you're using "Control from Here" and DPAI, what you're seeing on the DPAI display are the required control inputs to get your "Control from here" part up against the target docking port. It doesn't matter what "direction" you might think something is, or which "direction" you think your ship needs to move - you only need to follow the DPAI display and do what it says. If you have the retrograde yellow marker (i.e. you're moving farther from the target) then the correct input is always "H" - no matter if you think that's going to move your ship "up" or "forward" or any other direction. It will be the correct input based on your parts/position. If the docking ports are rotated differently, then the outer rotational display will tell you which direction you need to rotate, which will always be Q or E no matter how your craft is built. DPAI removes the need to think "I need to go up" ... nope, you need to give your ship the control inputs dictated by the DPAI display, and let DPAI worry about what direction those inputs actually move your craft.

Idk if this makes any difference, but I see your question contain words like "behind" and "down" which aren't terribly pertinent when you're using DPAI. All that's really required is to use Control from Here, and then fly the needles.

I took screenshots to get a better sense of the situation.
The cross was actually inverted vertically.
In fact, the problem is not in the mod, but in the part.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Gingt

[micha]

On 1/14/2023 at 3:30 AM, Gingt said:

In fact, the problem is not in the mod, but in the part.

Thanks to everybody commenting and the final conclusion on this.

I wonder if it's possible to create a ModuleManager patch to fix the part and include it in DPAI.. but I suspect it's an issue with the actual part model and the way it's oriented.

[Kurld]

I've been having one heck of a time trying to get this working with the SOCK mod shuttle.  The RCS geometry on the shuttle is fairly asymmetric and to get it balanced properly for control from the cockpit prograde you have to disable/enable certain axes on the various RCS ports.   When I switch control to the docking port (zenith facing) the DPAI presents the correct alignment cues as far as getting oriented with the target docking port, but the only RCS translation that seems to have any effect is the one that controls port/starboard.

Advice?

 

 

[MagicCuboid]

On 1/28/2023 at 12:39 AM, Kurld said:

I've been having one heck of a time trying to get this working with the SOCK mod shuttle.  The RCS geometry on the shuttle is fairly asymmetric and to get it balanced properly for control from the cockpit prograde you have to disable/enable certain axes on the various RCS ports.   When I switch control to the docking port (zenith facing) the DPAI presents the correct alignment cues as far as getting oriented with the target docking port, but the only RCS translation that seems to have any effect is the one that controls port/starboard.

Advice?

 

 

Use MechJeb and turn on Smart RCS Translation. It automatically tries to adjust your RCS thrusters to prevent rotation. Just remember to turn it off once you're done translating, or you get weird RCS behavior.

[Kurld]

22 hours ago, MagicCuboid said:

Use MechJeb and turn on Smart RCS Translation. It automatically tries to adjust your RCS thrusters to prevent rotation. Just remember to turn it off once you're done translating, or you get weird RCS behavior.

The "problem" was the way that the mod used to be set up with specific RCS thusters for the three different axes. You had to configure them in specific ways depending on which control point (i.e. "control from here") you used. This allowed for very fine control. . . as long as you used the "forward" control point and not the one for the docking port. The mod's author has since updated it so that it is set up like other command pods and now it "just works" regardless of which control point you use.

[MagicCuboid]

8 minutes ago, Kurld said:

The "problem" was the way that the mod used to be set up with specific RCS thusters for the three different axes. You had to configure them in specific ways depending on which control point (i.e. "control from here") you used. This allowed for very fine control. . . as long as you used the "forward" control point and not the one for the docking port. The mod's author has since updated it so that it is set up like other command pods and now it "just works" regardless of which control point you use.

Oh wow, I didn't realize this! I've always been in the habit of clicking "control from here" on the docking port before starting docking, even if it's on the nose. I'll give this a try!

[Kurld]

To be clear, the mod I'm referring to is SOCK.  The "cockpit" part has two different control from here options.  You still need to pick the one for the zenith-facing docking port.  The difference is (now) you don't have to completely change the RCS configuration to get it to work smoothly with DPAI.

[cephalo]

This is one of my favorite mods ever. However, now that all my computer gear is upgraded to the max, I'm finding the docking indicator is super duper small on a 4k screen. I have a room size TV and a beastly 4090 vid card letting me go crazy with the mods, but when I have to dock I have to get off the couch because it's too small and I can only see it with my face on the screen. Is there a way to trick this thing to scale up?