Apollo was essentially a technological stunt with little scientific merit. Discuss.

[Gus]

Perhaps technological feat would be more generous.

[0x7be]

Absolutely true. Scientific progress came mostly from unmanned probes and satellites and orbital stations. Lunar landings were spectacular, but unnessesary.

[llamatoes]

This should be in off topic, General discussion is for KSP ONLY.

[Mr. Scruffy]

It was also a psychological stunt by the crew, i´d like to add. I´d guess, most so for the guy who did not land, but stayed in orbit, and lost all contact to any human being, when the craft swung around to the far-side of the moon. Imagine: The lonliness. And then the dim notion, that while Neil and Buzz down there will be remembered for a century or so, your name will be forgotten next week. Gosh - the return trip: They´ll be hoping aboard and be all bragging and telling stories of how it was on the surface and they´ll go straight on for all the hours it takes going home, while all you have to tell is: ´The dark side is really dark, you know.´ Then comes the parade and everyone will be like: ´Hey, there´s Neil! Hooray! Look, there´s Buzz, too! Yippieh! ... But who´s that third guy, there? What´s he doing there?´...

[Ben_C]

Even if the ultimate reasons for the Apollo missions lay in the Cold War that does not detract from it being the highpoint of human technological, scientific and engineering prowess. To reduce it to terms of a 'feat' or 'stunt' is far to dismissive.

[harbingerdawn]

Remind me again just how much sample mass Apollo astronauts returned from the Moon? And how much have robots returned? Did robotic sample return missions have the ability to drive around for dozens of kilometers and analyze the terrain in real time for targets of interest? And how many different experiments were deployed by robotic missions? Did any robots dig trenches over 30 cm deep into lunar soil and retrieve samples from the bottom?

You can argue about whether robotic missions could have achieved as much scientific discovery as the manned missions given the same budget, but it is utterly foolish to say that there was little scientific merit to them. The Apollo missions contributed more to lunar science than any other mission series, and were solely responsible for revolutionizing our understanding of the Moon and the history of the Earth-Moon system, and the Solar system in general.

Edited August 1, 2013 by harbingerdawn
added an example

[Superfluous J]

This is a discussion? Everybody knew this BACK THEN, and half a century hasn't really changed that.

EDIT: That said, it's still the most amazing thing Humanity's done which is sad. We could have a colony there by now if we weren't busy shooting each other.

Edited August 1, 2013 by 5thHorseman

[Gus]

This should be in off topic, General discussion is for KSP ONLY.

Yes. Indeed.

[0x7be]

This is a discussion? Everybody knew this BACK THEN, and half a century hasn't really changed that.

EDIT: That said, it's still the most amazing thing Humanity's done which is sad. We could have a colony there by now if we weren't busy shooting each other.

Ironically, it is our violent nature has produced Cold War and Space Race was a direct product of that conflict.

[Apollo1391]

It was also a psychological stunt by the crew, i´d like to add. I´d guess, most so for the guy who did not land, but stayed in orbit, and lost all contact to any human being, when the craft swung around to the far-side of the moon. Imagine: The lonliness. And then the dim notion, that while Neil and Buzz down there will be remembered for a century or so, your name will be forgotten next week. Gosh - the return trip: They´ll be hoping aboard and be all bragging and telling stories of how it was on the surface and they´ll go straight on for all the hours it takes going home, while all you have to tell is: ´The dark side is really dark, you know.´ Then comes the parade and everyone will be like: ´Hey, there´s Neil! Hooray! Look, there´s Buzz, too! Yippieh! ... But who´s that third guy, there? What´s he doing there?´...

Yep as I always say 12 guys walked on the moon leaving 6 guys orbiting above it

[SimonJames]

Ironically, it is our violent nature has produced Cold War and Space Race was a direct product of that conflict.

A lot of technology we have in our homes, even in our hospitals, has been derived from weapons/defence research. However, I do think that if/when we have world peace then research will still be well driven. It may even accelerate as less resources are diverted for such things as maintaining large military forces and constant nuclear readiness, and lets not forget the insane amount of investment currently being thrown at "cyber warfare" and the erosion of civil liberties in the name of security.

[0x7be]

A lot of technology we have in our homes, even in our hospitals, has been derived from weapons/defence research. However, I do think that if/when we have world peace then research will still be well driven. It may even accelerate as less resources are diverted for such things as maintaining large military forces and constant nuclear readiness, and lets not forget the insane amount of investment currently being thrown at "cyber warfare" and the erosion of civil liberties in the name of security.

I tend to agree and disagree at the same time. You see, any sort of confrontation or competition actually boosts motivation to develop. But at the same time it diverts huge amounts of resources to developments which will not contribute to well-being of humanity. So, I'am faraid that without Cold War and all other wars pace of technological progress would be much slower.

[drakesdoom]

You know this is all the Wright brothers fault. If they had not started all these stupid juvenile stunts in 1903 none of this would have happened.

We would all be so much better off getting around by boat and blimp, no need to waste precious resources on "flying." Space, space is right out, poppycock.

[0x7be]

-snip-

Regardless of sizes discussions, I think that Russian piloted space program was actually more logical and delivered best results.

You see, NASA first invested HUGE amount of resources into Mercury-Gemini-Apollo and then threw it away.

Started STS project with orbital station, Shuttle, orbital tug, but cut it to Shuttle itself.

Sold Shuttle to goverment as means of cheap space delivery, but it actually turned out to be more expensive than expendable boosters.

Then NASA grounded Shuttle and discarded it's heritage once again.

Next was Cancellation program...

Russians has focused on orbital stations and here we have IIS

Edited August 1, 2013 by stupid_chris
Removed inappropriate content

[karolus10]

A lot of technology we have in our homes, even in our hospitals, has been derived from weapons/defence research. However, I do think that if/when we have world peace then research will still be well driven. It may even accelerate as less resources are diverted for such things as maintaining large military forces and constant nuclear readiness, and lets not forget the insane amount of investment currently being thrown at "cyber warfare" and the erosion of civil liberties in the name of security.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Nuff said.

A lot of space technologies has been developed for or during Apollo program, statement that putting man on the mun was unnecessary is like sending columbus was a mistake and we shouldn't go back (Big YAY! for natives of both Americas).

Apollo missions deployed a lot of scientific equipment on the surface and made more in less time than probe rover will need to even deploy.

Also it's worth pointing out that Apollo missions are still only successful sample return missions to this day.

EDIT_1: In long run, Russians are true victors of space race. Also they made huge progress in robotic missions, unthinkable for US since then like Lunokhod missions, and buran, that completed mission without any crew.

Edited August 1, 2013 by karolus10

[0x7be]

Nuff said.

A lot of space technologies has been developed for or during Apollo program, statement that putting man on the mun was unnecessary is like sending columbus was a mistake and we shouldn't go back (Big YAY! for natives of both Americas).

Apollo missions deployed a lot of scientific equipment on the surface and made more in less time than probe rover will need to even deploy.

Also it's worth pointing out that Apollo missions are still only successful sample return missions to this day.

1. For the same amount of money that were spent on Apollo one can deliver even more hardware to moon surface.

2. Soviet Luna program had three successful sample return missions.

[King Arthur]

EDIT_1: In long run, Russians are true victors of space race. Also they made huge progress in robotic missions, unthinkable for US since then like Lunokhod missions, and buran, that completed mission without any crew.

As far as this part goes, we need only look at what space is like today:

1. The Russian Soyuz is the only available form of reliable and consistent manned space travel.

2. The "International" Space Station cannot function without the ROS (Russian Orbital Segment), more specifically the Zvezda service module.

3. Following retirement of the Space Shuttle, NASA and the US government are literally headless chickens about what to do next.

To be clear, the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo programs were the pinnacle of human engineering, and a lot of what we take for granted today (knowledge about our Moon, computers, fuel cells, solar power, life support systems, navigation systems, orbital mechanics, aerodynamics, etc.) benefitted immensely from these programs. To say that they were merely "technological stunts" is nothing short of ignorance to the highest degree.

That said, while the US and NASA might have won the Moon Race hands down, ultimately we (Americans) lost the Space Race.

EDIT: Corrected mistyping of the Russian Orbital Segment, or the ROS, on the ISS. My apologies.

Edited August 1, 2013 by King Arthur

[0x7be]

EDIT_1: In long run, Russians are true victors of space race. Also they made huge progress in robotic missions, unthinkable for US since then like Lunokhod missions, and buran, that completed mission without any crew.

Unfortunately, after fall of USSR Russians has very few achievments in area of automatic space probes. While staying behind in area of crewed space flight, NASA is defenitely leading in area of robotic space and planetary explorations.

[stupid_chris]

Also guys, can we stay away from willy talk please? let's not take out too much vulgar words and keep the conversation clean please, thanks

[Mr Shifty]

As far as this part goes, we need only look at what space is like today:

1. The Russian Soyuz is the only available form of reliable and consistent manned space travel.

Shenzhou as well. The Chinese have launched 5 crewed missions since 2003; the most recent was in June this year. They have a space station. They're landing a rover on the moon later this year, which will be the first soft landing on the moon since 1976. My money is on the next moon walkers being Chinese.

[0x7be]

Shenzhou as well. The Chinese have launched 5 crewed missions since 2003; the most recent was in June this year. They have a space station. They're landing a rover on the moon later this year, which will be the first soft landing on the moon since 1976. My money is on the next moon walkers being Chinese.

That is true. China is making impressive progress on it's own space program, but they still do it in isolation. I suppose sooner or later they will join outher countries in space exploration.

[Monkeh]

The Chinese have already won the human race. They won't join anyone else, why would they? They have everything they need. In a couple of hundred years we'll all be bowing down our communist brothers.

They'll be mining asteroids whilst the White house passes gun laws, stockpiling all the gold in mobile phones so no-one else has any, (Did you know there's only 2 Olympic sized swimming pools of gold on the entire planet), whilst Downing street tries to get politicians to stop fraudulent expenses claims.

If you want to be successful, go become Chinese. Down right shocking human rights. Down right already won the human race.

[sidew]

See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spin-off for a complete list of tech and innovation from space missions

[0x7be]

The Chinese have already won the human race. They won't join anyone else, why would they? They have everything they need. In a couple of hundred years we'll all be bowing down our communist brothers.

They'll be mining asteroids whilst the White house passes gun laws, stockpiling all the gold in mobile phones so no-one else has any, (Did you know there's only 2 Olympic sized swimming pools of gold on the entire planet), whilst Downing street tries to get politicians to stop fraudulent expenses claims.

If you want to be successful, go become Chinese. Down right shocking human rights. Down right already won the human race.

I think that you hold rather idealistic view on China. They have a lot of internal social and economic problems.

Nevertheless, I wish them best luck with their space program.

[Moon Goddess]

It was also a psychological stunt by the crew, i´d like to add. I´d guess, most so for the guy who did not land, but stayed in orbit, and lost all contact to any human being, when the craft swung around to the far-side of the moon. Imagine: The lonliness. And then the dim notion, that while Neil and Buzz down there will be remembered for a century or so, your name will be forgotten next week. Gosh - the return trip: They´ll be hoping aboard and be all bragging and telling stories of how it was on the surface and they´ll go straight on for all the hours it takes going home, while all you have to tell is: ´The dark side is really dark, you know.´ Then comes the parade and everyone will be like: ´Hey, there´s Neil! Hooray! Look, there´s Buzz, too! Yippieh! ... But who´s that third guy, there? What´s he doing there?´...

Well despite the the statment from mission control

"Not since Adam has any human known such solitude as Mike Collins is experiencing during this 47 minutes of each lunar revolution when he's behind the Moon with no one to talk to except his tape recorder aboard Columbia."

Michael Collins has always stated he never felt lonely. 47 minutes isn't really a long time to get lonely when you have things to concentrate on. And he had a big one. Collins has always stated that his biggest fear wasn't that he'd be forgotten, but that he'd be remembered. There was a good chance this stuff would not go right, there was a chance the ascent engines on the lander wouldn't fire, heck they even almost had a crash going down. Collins always feared that he'd be remembered for the rest of his life as the astronaut who came home alone. Puts a far far different feel on it than worried about missing out on fame.

*I bolded Michael Collins name to make sure he's not forgotten.