How to got more than one Star System to work....

[Robbwiththehair]

I know this is thinking REALLY big, way beyond any foreseeable future update, but I'd love to know what the KSP community thinks would be the best way to make more than one star system a possibility. Obviously there's the fact that these systems are light-years away irl that we'd have to get around in some way, and that the systems would have to far away enough that there would be no major gravitational interaction between systems (although that WOULD give interesting results), and still keep them close enough that a player could feasably reach them in less than say, half an hour of in game warped time.

I personally would love it if you could have a "Warp Speed" time acceleration mode only available if you are in an escape trajectory from a system, so you could warp to your destination at a much, much quicker speed.

Edit: Sorry for the typo in the title, it's 4:45 AM here, and all out of Alcohol and Energy drinks

Edited August 4, 2013 by Robbwiththehair

[Enigma179]

Honestly that's the only way that makes sense. I love KSP, but I'm likely to love it less if I'd have to sit through 30 minutes of empty space on full time warp to hit up new systems (or 30 minutes of grabbing a coffee and doing other less fun things).

What would make the most sense to me is either an abstract way of doing it, where there's a hub, and once you escape the system you pick where you want to go (breaking realism a little bit there), or alternatively have the system be one of many other systems in a galaxy, where you still have to plan your trajectories to get to other galaxies! Once you reach the escape of a system it would zoom out, and you'd have all the normal options of timewarp plus a few extra high speeds; small burns would be enough to alter your trajectory hugely out in open space I'm guessing, so guestimating and then burning on the way out would probably work reasonably well.

And then when the game gets bigger those galaxies could be part of the UNIVERSE where all the galaxies are rotating around and you can travel from system to galaxy to other galaxy and then you can go to the center of the universe if you want and fight the kraken and and and yeah.

[Robbwiththehair]

Another idea that I had was that you could have stations in each system, orbiting close to the systems star or central mass, working like mass relays in Mass Effect. You know, a "slingshot to the stars" kind of thing? It would be really quite cool to see a little cut-scene of Jebediah screaming his butt of going into hyperspace :')

[dave4002000]

...then you can go to the center of the universe if you want and fight the kraken...

It is not advised to fight the kraken. The kraken will always win, it doesn't play by the rules

[eurybaric]

Well, not necessarily. For example Alpha Centauri, the closest star to our Sun, is about 4.3 LY away. Lets make that 5 for the sake of simplicity. The Alcubierre Drive (Warp Drive) theoretically can reach 10 times the speed of light, so that means it'll take us 0.5 years, or 182.5 days to get there. and at 100 000x warp speed, that'd take us around 2.8 minutes of ingame time to reach if my calculations are correct (not *too* confident bout those since its 6:40 in the morning, I havent slept, and im halfway drunk )

Feasible.

Cheers

[Aqua667]

Honestly that's the only way that makes sense. I love KSP, but I'm likely to love it less if I'd have to sit through 30 minutes of empty space on full time warp to hit up new systems (or 30 minutes of grabbing a coffee and doing other less fun things).

What would make the most sense to me is either an abstract way of doing it, where there's a hub, and once you escape the system you pick where you want to go (breaking realism a little bit there), or alternatively have the system be one of many other systems in a galaxy, where you still have to plan your trajectories to get to other galaxies! Once you reach the escape of a system it would zoom out, and you'd have all the normal options of timewarp plus a few extra high speeds; small burns would be enough to alter your trajectory hugely out in open space I'm guessing, so guestimating and then burning on the way out would probably work reasonably well.

And then when the game gets bigger those galaxies could be part of the UNIVERSE where all the galaxies are rotating around and you can travel from system to galaxy to other galaxy and then you can go to the center of the universe if you want and fight the kraken and and and yeah.

The only problem simulating a whole freaking universe on your computer would make it explode, unless everything was on rails. Everything would have to be procedurally generated, like Space Engine. Would be really fun though.

[Robbwiththehair]

The only problem simulating a whole freaking universe on your computer would make it explode, unless everything was on rails. Everything would have to be procedurally generated

Well KSP is currently only like 1.3GB in size, if they were to add another 5 systems of the current game's entire size I don't see how that could tip over 5-6 GB, as some of that is Models for ship parts etc.

Surely if the game was to be expanded in this way it would make sense for it to be just like adding planets, but in a separate system, just the way the planets/moons have been added procedurally so far?

[EvilotionCR2]

Add bigger timewarp and add Orion style parts.Pack a lot of mining stuff with you,get there,send a lander to some planet or moon,take the resources,make nukes for way back,do some science,and PROFIT!

[Necandi Brasil]

I don't like the idea of adding sci fi tech in ksp... Leave this to EVE online , Mass Effect , etc...

One way to add more stuff without breaking this logic would be to create "Oort clouds" that intercept each other... So we would collect resources and continue in our journey. And btw ... This should take a very long time to do ( Something like 3 months or so... Of casual gameplay and 2-4 weeks of intense playing).

Another way to do this without breaking the game was to "Randomize" ( something like earth creator in Civilization games) or have custom built systems with mods.

Be aware that this is a very long time.... Maybe we will be more interested in ksp 2.0 ....

EDIT: Watched Scott Manley yesterday's video... he talked about an interesting thing... to use Monolith's as star gates for future star systems expansions. In my opinion that's a VERY good idea

Edited August 4, 2013 by Necandi Brasil
Adding more info :)

[MinerEdgar]

It is not advised to fight the kraken. The kraken will always win, it doesn't play by the rules

The rules of ....... Physics?

[DChurchill]

Kraken don't needs no fizzicks, man.

[FITorion]

In game terms I'd have each system be it's own instance. Time warping there would have no effect on any other system.

I would have an option once you were well outside the system you're in to travel to any of a list of other solar systems you've discovered. This option might only be available if you have a certain type of engine... like a vasimr... and enough fuel... I'd have the trip take... as long as it takes your computer to load the next system. This loading screen could display any of a number of things to show the "long" trip.

For example:

Kerbals in cold sleep chambers.

a black screen with "Time Warp 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000x" on it.

Kerbals doing funny stuff on their Generation ship... (maybe finally answer the question of female Kerbals and or how the Kerbals reproduce...)

As much as I'm for piloting everything... There's no more to do during a trans solar cruise than there is during the trip to Jool when you're time warping. A loading screen cinematic would be perfect for the transition from one solar system to another.

No Scifi tech is needed. We have the tech today and the understanding of physics today (well some of us understand relativity) All we lack is the will to spend the money needed to do such a thing. If we find an planet within 50 lightyears of us that could support life... You can bet we will send a probe there to check it out.

Edited August 4, 2013 by FITorion

[Goldham]

How to got more than one star system to work? Please use grammar. I believe Scott Manley posted a video about how long it would take to get to another star.

[Enigma179]

No Scifi tech is needed. We have the tech today and the understanding of physics today (well some of us understand relativity) All we lack is the will to spend the money needed to do such a thing. If we find an planet within 50 lightyears of us that could support life... You can bet we will send a probe there to check it out.

The fastest (I believe) spacecraft we've actually launched are the Helios probes, reaching a speed of 70.22 km/s because of the sun's gravitational pull. That's 0.000234c. That's pretty impressive.

The calculation isn't difficult though; if there's a planet within 50 light years that can support life, IF we were to somehow get a craft to escape our solar system with that velocity (Voyager 1, fastest spacecraft to leave the solar system, is moving at around 17 km/s relative to the sun at the moment), it would still take about 213,675.2 years for the probe to show up, not to mention the other 50 years it takes for any signals to get back (okay that's a minor thing on the grand scale though).

The Homo genus, the one which includes us, Homo Sapiens (but back in the past they would have looked pretty different, obviously) is 2.5 million years old. Modern humans are 500 thousand years old. The subspecies (that is, humans that look pretty much exactly like us without the differing structures and all), Homo Sapiens Sapiens is 200 thousand years old.

Now I understand that there's some efficient high speed engine technology on the drawing board, in particular that warp drive that bends space time in a way I don't fully understand to travel faster than light, but until that stuff gets loaded up into a rocket and fired, I'd say we aren't going to send a probe out 50 light years away. 213,675 years is a long time for something unplanned (or even literally impossible to anticipate) to go wrong.

[FITorion]

What we have done and what we could do are 2 completely different things. And I'm not talking warp drives or anything faster than light. I'm only talking things which we have made and test fired on the ground that could be scaled up.

Edited August 4, 2013 by FITorion

[Enigma179]

What we have done and what we could do are 2 completely different things.

Alright, maybe I haven't heard about the newest advances. If NASA found a clone of earth exactly fifty light years away with a perfect trajectory for us to fly to it, and they had to pack up a probe and launch it by the end of 2013, what's the most advanced technology (regardless of cost) that one: we know for sure will work, two: has a realistic fuel/energy requirement, and three: actually exists as a full sized working example or prototype?

I'm not even being a jerk or anything I genuinely would like to know what you have in mind.

[rpayne88]

Steps to solving this problem:

1. Make star systems revolve around a super massive black hole

2. Change each star's SOI from "infinite" to "X"

3. Make it so we can time warp during burns

4. Add one million X, 10 million X, and 100 million X time warp

5. Create a hypothetical engine that has great performance outside of the solar wind and poor performance while in it (vague, I know.)

6. Place everything on rails except for the controlled object while burning

7. Take the VAB keys from Jeb

[magnemoe]

In game terms I'd have each system be it's own instance. Time warping there would have no effect on any other system.

No Scifi tech is needed. We have the tech today and the understanding of physics today (well some of us understand relativity) All we lack is the will to spend the money needed to do such a thing. If we find an planet within 50 lightyears of us that could support life... You can bet we will send a probe there to check it out.

One benefit of an warp drive is that you can load and unload systems. You adjust time on switching that is no huge problem. For slower than light you would be able to see mulitiple suns then zooming out in map view and jump between them who might generate performance issues.

Interstellar travel without faster than light in KSP is not an huge problem, system is scaled down and few would complain if you put the closest star 20 times the distance from Eeloo. An stock asparagus with nuclear engines would be able to reach it in a decade or two.

[Markarian421]

Alright, maybe I haven't heard about the newest advances. If NASA found a clone of earth exactly fifty light years away with a perfect trajectory for us to fly to it, and they had to pack up a probe and launch it by the end of 2013, what's the most advanced technology (regardless of cost) that one: we know for sure will work, two: has a realistic fuel/energy requirement, and three: actually exists as a full sized working example or prototype?

1940's technology: Project Orion (There's even a mod for KSP, but I thnk it's not yet working in 0.21.) If we were trying to get to another star we wouldn't use the same technology we use to send a probe to Jupiter. That would be like trying to ride your bicycle to Hawaii.

[FITorion]

Alright, maybe I haven't heard about the newest advances. If NASA found a clone of earth exactly fifty light years away with a perfect trajectory for us to fly to it, and they had to pack up a probe and launch it by the end of 2013, what's the most advanced technology (regardless of cost) that one: we know for sure will work, two: has a realistic fuel/energy requirement, and three: actually exists as a full sized working example or prototype?

I'm not even being a jerk or anything I genuinely would like to know what you have in mind.

by the end of 2013... we couldn't do it. Just like in 1961 when Kennedy directed NASA to go to the Moon they couldn't do it. What they had was the ability and understanding necessary to create the hardware needed. All they needed was the order to go and do it. The doing takes some time.

Project Orion is one idea that has merit.

I already mentioned Vasimr. It's very promising in ground tests thus far. I wouldn't be surprised if we used it for manned missions to Mars. Cuts travel time to under a month.

Ion drives are good but Vasimr is better. We have probes using Ion already.

Solar sails are also quite viable and we've already put one in space as a proof of concept.

There a few ideas involving lasers too but I don't think those are nearly as ready.

Any of those or a combination of those with sufficient funding could be scaled up to get a probe to another star. 50 is the outer limit I chose because with our current tech it may be a couple generations before it would get there. I figure 2 generations is about as long as a mission could be maintained ... with a little luck.

[TheTriniFlyer]

I may need to point out that Alpha Centari, the nearest system to earth, is 4.3 ly away, but scaled in the KSP universe is now only .43 or shave it down to .4 ly, so pack alot of fuel, invent 1,000,000x warp, and well then... Explore your creativity!

[Scotius]

1. No one will build Orion. Detonating nuclear devices in space is a big No-No, and public gets hysteric at mere mention of nuclear powered satellites. There would be riots if someone proposed to send up spacecraft carrying hundreds of nuclear bombs.

2. VASIMR, while undeniably cool is not up to interstellar levels of power. Best we have is 200kW engine with huge power consumption.

3.Accelerating the probe to noticeable fraction of lightspeed with ion engines would be a herculean task. Abysmal thrust combined with high power demands would mean decades of acceleration.

4. Solar sails...No one came with idea how to build a sail big enough, and still controllable as of yet.

No, we need better engines to reach other stars in reasonable time. Warp drive would be best option, but it is still theoretical. Other promising options are: Fission Fragment engine, Fusion Driven Rocket (aka. Fusion Pulse Drive), Nuclear Lightbulb engine, Nuclear Saltwater engine.

[SpaceSphereOfDeath]

My idea is to have the kerbal system a MINOR in a system with kerbal orbiting a larger star, and to get to that star you just have to escape kerbol, then you'll automatically be in that stars SOI

[Scarecrow88]

Scott Manley has indeed posted a video about the time it takes to travel interstellar distances. For KSP, it would be possible to make another system closer than in real life, but it would still take an age to get there. I like the idea of easter eggs in the game that, once all found, provide you with the resources to build a Stargate type structure that opens up the possibility of travelling to other solar sustems

[annallia]

Havent read it all, so forgive me if someone said this already.

But couldn't they limit the gravitational pulls of these systems? Make the suns pull rest a reasonable distance outside the orbit of Jool/Eeloo with a void of gravitational pulls (again reasonable distance but should be able to be covered in 10-15 minutes of max time warp) where there a new system can begin?