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Clampotron Sr. Docking Port PSA


Awass

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In that case, the arrow wouldn't help either. You'd say "Does the arrow show the side that I attach to my ship, or the side that I will be docking with? I dunno... why isn't Squad making this easier for me?"

I guess you could ask Squad to stencil one side with big orange letters spelling out "Point this side toward the other ship!" but I think a lot of people would find that aesthetically unappealing.

I think the hatch marking makes it about as obvious as it can be using the texture to impart information. If the part really does require installation instructions, they should simply be added to the text description of the part in the VAB.

How about some little red arrows and a note in the description that the arrows point toward the docking side? The real non-issue here is how the aesthetics would work.

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I put my first sr port on backwards. After having a problem I went back to the VAB and checked it The difference between the 2 sides is obvious.

KSP is a detail oriented game. If you didn't pay attention to orientation when you placed the part, that's your fault not SQUADs. Most likely you wouldn't have payed attention to an arrow either.

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Then that's something to learn. would an arrow really help here? do you think the arrow would point towards the docking edge, or towards the structural edge? would you think the arrows would have to converge or be parallel? would you even think the arrow was important - if you were naive enough (note: being naive is not a bad or offensive thing, it just means you have no experience with the area in question) to not think the side of the model was relivent when placing, would you suddenly think different because of a slight asethetic difference?

The real issue here is this game is (currently) BASED around trial and error. Your spaceships evolve (sometimes literally). all my ships undergo docking testing with my spacestation if their docking target is critical and beyond LKE and all ships, or designs, undergo testing on kerbin, minmus or mun depending on their mission demands.

You learn something doesn't work doing a certain thing, and adjust it for future missions. In this case i reckon the number of people who repeat this error once they become aware of it is very low compared to for example, the decoupler (have solid white for the lower - stay connected edge and dashed red and yellow upper - explodey edge)

I agree that the fun of KSP is learning through trial and error. However, failing only because you put a part on wrong is and learning of it when your space station is already in orbit is much too much frustration for such a small lesson. It's a trivial matter. When testing shows your concept was wrong, you change it, and that's fun. When your concept is sound, and you actually put into practice only to be stopped by a single part you had planned to have on correctly but didn't only because you didn't know it was backwards, which a simple little arrow and a note in the description could have prevented? That's another thing all together as well as horribly structured sentence.

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I put my first sr port on backwards. After having a problem I went back to the VAB and checked it The difference between the 2 sides is obvious.

KSP is a detail oriented game. If you didn't pay attention to orientation when you placed the part, that's your fault not SQUADs. Most likely you wouldn't have payed attention to an arrow either.

What is the fault lay in my ignorance rather than carelessness? It didn't occur to me that putting it on backwards was even a thing. Here's a great clip from one of my favorite series: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0W9bQ2Jg3A Go to 3:35. "A failure of imagination"

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Subassembly loader. Or the planned stock implementation of the same feature. Which of course requires that you first build the subassembly, of course, unless you get it from someone else...

Yes, exactly... you still have to build it yourself, part by part... you can't just drop it "in the middle of a stack" in a way that you can't see it. Or somebody else has to build it, just like that, if you want to use other people's assemblies. So, when you build it, take that one second to see if you did it right.

failing only because you put a part on wrong is and learning of it when your space station is already in orbit is much too much frustration for such a small lesson. It's a trivial matter. When testing shows your concept was wrong, you change it, and that's fun. When your concept is sound, and you actually put into practice only to be stopped by a single part you had planned to have on correctly but didn't only because you didn't know it was backwards, which a simple little arrow and a note in the description could have prevented? That's another thing all together as well as horribly structured sentence.

That reminds me of the recent Proton launch...

Edited by RoboRay
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When your concept is sound, and you actually put into practice only to be stopped by a single part you had planned to have on correctly but didn't only because you didn't know it was backwards.

The first time you used a solar panel, did you try deploying it before you docked with your spacestation?

The first time you used an ion drive, did you fire it on the landing stage to see if your electric charge could keep up?

or check the fuel flow on a less then simple final stage.

Or test fire a LES before putting it on top of your giant fuel tank carrier (without a kerbal of course :P )

My point is really, if you are using a part you havent got experience with, you dont assume to know how it functions - does the spotlight come on when you press the light button, or does it need a seperate action group? do capsules generate torque while steering a rover? - you test it. for me i do rediculous amounts of testing on almost every craft, but for most people i expect "ooo a docking thing, lets start with things docked on the launchpad, undock them and fly up a tiny bit, then redock them" comes before "i shall put them on my giant superstructure"

Like when playing COD, sure i was slightly annoyed when i realised you couldnt see people who had the ghost perk while using IR scope - but i don't think you need the warning written explicitly on the gun or in the description for the scope. experience is key.

My tip: remember everything nasa did, 90% of their budget (guessing at numbers, sorry) was spent on testing on the ground or in the atmosphere. docking parts, tested on the ground/in a pool. engines, tested on the ground. launchvehicles, tested without payload - usually suborbitally.

So test before you commit.

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I have decided on a little test: Find the one with the upside down port *Hums "one of these things is not like the other, one of these things does not belong"*

By process of elimination, it must be #3, as the stripes go the other way. But I agree that this is hardly an instantly recognizable way to tell, especially since the only reason it can be deduced here is due to the conditions of the test. If you said "Which one(s) are installed incorrectly?" few, if any could tell.

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The problem is the side view isn't blatantly obvious on the Sr. port. And while it may be true that looking at it from the top/bottom the camera doesn't always allow said view on say a larger build.

I have decided on a little test: Find the one with the upside down port *Hums "one of these things is not like the other, one of these things does not belong"*

#1

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/annallia92/ScreenShot122_zps6d48d5ad.jpg

#2

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/annallia92/ScreenShot117_zps944d58ad.jpg

#3

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/annallia92/ScreenShot121_zpse6002ea1.jpg

Okay...

1 UP, 2 DOWN, 3 UP

Docking side had 45* slope on the edge, second is flat.

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Okay...

1 UP, 2 DOWN, 3 UP

Docking side had 45* slope on the edge, second is flat.

Proof positive that angle of view (which can be limited by the camera in the VAB on large builds) can trip you up. That answer is wrong.

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I have decided on a little test: Find the one with the upside down port *Hums "one of these things is not like the other, one of these things does not belong"*

The one without the handle below the hitchhiker container handles is upside down.

I can tell that you 'manipulated' the first by placing it further down by placing (possibly clipping with) objects on the hitchhiker container. You can also see the lip of the docking port on the offset one.

Manipulating visual 'evidence' is pointless when it's obvious visually which way the docking port is facing when you go to place it. This whole debate is just going in a circle between people who can't be bothered to look twice when placing it and people who do. Just check the orientation before snapping in place if you can't rotate your camera to view the result.

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The one without the handle below the hitchhiker container handles is upside down.

I can tell that you 'manipulated' the first by placing it further down by placing (possibly clipping with) objects on the hitchhiker container. You can also see the lip of the docking port on the offset one.

Manipulating visual 'evidence' is pointless when it's obvious visually which way the docking port is facing when you go to place it. This whole debate is just going in a circle between people who can't be bothered to look twice when placing it and people who do. Just check the orientation before snapping in place if you can't rotate your camera to view the result.

Again wrong answer, any moving of the camera for a different angle was unintentional and even so reinforces the point that you don't always get the best of views when building.

The first was not manipulated by placing it further down, it is the one that is upside down. The reason the handle is in front is it was rotated, again something that routinely happens in builds.

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You can rotate your view when building, though. Which is absolutely enough to correctly identify the orientation.

But the camera has limitations, which again can leave you with not getting a decent angle on the part to correctly identify it.

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Just what universe-gigantic monstrosity are you building in the VAB such that you can't get a clean visual on the docking port?

Also, of the 3 pictures you posted asking us to point out which is the port placed backwards, it is pictures #1 and #3; the port-side "rim" of the docking port is obviously pointed the way of the Hitchhiker.

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The first was not manipulated by placing it further down, it is the one that is upside down. The reason the handle is in front is it was rotated, again something that routinely happens in builds.

I see, so what you actually were asking was which one was correctly placed, which in fact does belong, rather than which two would not function? So you're using semantics to change your statement.

If you didn't manipulate them, in an attempt to prove that you can't visually tell a difference from the side, then you've proven the opposite, that you can tell a difference because of how the port sits on the hitchhiker container, since when it snaps to place the way it should be, ie stuck to the hitchhiker can and able to dock below, you can clearly tell which is the 'real deal', in which case karolus was correct. They only snap in place two ways and you CAN tell the difference clearly in your pictures.

So either you're confused by what we're answer or you're confusing us with what you're asking.

Picture 117 shows the correct orientation, 121 and 122 the wrong one. There really is no two ways about it. You haven't rotated the camera enough to obscure anything, so if you're not using any trickery and just snapping the docking port into place, detatching and rotating it and snapping in place again, your pictures clearly prove that it's easy to tell the difference. I'm looking at it ingame and there's no way to be confused about it without turning your camera so you can barely see anything, at which point you'll still see the orientation of the docking port before you move it into place to snap it in.

I'm just amazed that people have trouble with something as simple as this.

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This whole thread reminds me of the old thread about the "End Flight" button, where people were complaining it was too easy to kill space stations, even though they had a confirm button after saying end flight, so they wanted a second confirm button.

It doesn't matter how many hints you add to the part about the orientation, people who don't see the current hints are not going to see the new hints.

I've put docking ports on the wrong way before. Not only Sr docking ports, but standard size too. It's not hard if you don't pay attention. The point is, pay attention!

Personally I don't want arrows on the side, because it would detract from the aesthetics.

As a final point:

"a bad workman always blames his tools"

You have the tools to do the job right. If you can't, it's not the tools fault.

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This whole thread reminds me of the old thread about the "End Flight" button, where people were complaining it was too easy to kill space stations, even though they had a confirm button after saying end flight, so they wanted a second confirm button.

It doesn't matter how many hints you add to the part about the orientation, people who don't see the current hints are not going to see the new hints.

I've put docking ports on the wrong way before. Not only Sr docking ports, but standard size too. It's not hard if you don't pay attention. The point is, pay attention!

Personally I don't want arrows on the side, because it would detract from the aesthetics.

As a final point:

"a bad workman always blames his tools"

You have the tools to do the job right. If you can't, it's not the tools fault.

This has been said throughout the thread; however, if you look at the OP, I never blamed anyone for anything. It was simply a warning. Although I think some little arrows (they're on some of the decouplers too, and they look fine) and maybe a note in the part description, I just want people to be aware that this problem is out there.

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This has been said throughout the thread; however, if you look at the OP, I never blamed anyone for anything. It was simply a warning. Although I think some little arrows (they're on some of the decouplers too, and they look fine) and maybe a note in the part description, I just want people to be aware that this problem is out there.

I have no problem with your original post, it was perfectly reasonable. What I am commenting on is the rest of the thread. I stand by my comments that I do not want arrows for the aesthetics. Decouplers don't worry me, since they are going to be dumped during staging, and besides they are symmetrical otherwise.

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I see, so what you actually were asking was which one was correctly placed, which in fact does belong, rather than which two would not function? So you're using semantics to change your statement.

If you didn't manipulate them, in an attempt to prove that you can't visually tell a difference from the side, then you've proven the opposite, that you can tell a difference because of how the port sits on the hitchhiker container, since when it snaps to place the way it should be, ie stuck to the hitchhiker can and able to dock below, you can clearly tell which is the 'real deal', in which case karolus was correct. They only snap in place two ways and you CAN tell the difference clearly in your pictures.

So either you're confused by what we're answer or you're confusing us with what you're asking.

Picture 117 shows the correct orientation, 121 and 122 the wrong one. There really is no two ways about it. You haven't rotated the camera enough to obscure anything, so if you're not using any trickery and just snapping the docking port into place, detatching and rotating it and snapping in place again, your pictures clearly prove that it's easy to tell the difference. I'm looking at it ingame and there's no way to be confused about it without turning your camera so you can barely see anything, at which point you'll still see the orientation of the docking port before you move it into place to snap it in.

I'm just amazed that people have trouble with something as simple as this.

Not sure where you are getting confused here.

Three pictures of the same components. One picture has a piece placed incorrectly. That was picture #1 The other two ports are placed correctly. The whole point was that given a limited camera view which happens at times you cannot easily, or even with effort determine if it is rotated correctly from the side.

Three people have answered it, one after being given the correct answer, and three people have gotten it wrong. Something about that tells me there is a problem here...

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Three people have answered it, one after being given the correct answer, and three people have gotten it wrong. Something about that tells me there is a problem here...

Except that the only time I actually got confused with the docking ports was when I first got KSP (it was 0.20.2 then) and was just beginning to understand how docking worked. I can't speak for everyone obviously, but since then I've had not one in-reverse senior docking port because I actually pay attention to the parts I'm laying down.

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