Correcting Historical Screw-ups. (IRL)

[rpayne88]

So, as I'm typing this I'm watching a Baltimore Orioles game on MASN (a sports network.) Anyway, before returning to the game following a commercial break, they take a shot of the U.S.S. Hornet and claim it was involved in two of the most important events of the 20th century: WWII and the Apollo XI manned "space station mission." Um...You mean manned moon landing.

Anyone else got any examples where you wish you could politely correct announcers, ect.

[annallia]

Not so politely but yes...

Small slip ups like that I don't mind though. So he said space station instead of moon landing, that is minor. Now giving blatant false information because their fact checkers were asleep at the wheel... That is a different story.

[Tiron]

Not so politely but yes...

Small slip ups like that I don't mind though. So he said space station instead of moon landing, that is minor. Now giving blatant false information because their fact checkers were asleep at the wheel... That is a different story.

Space Station Versus the FIRST Moon Landing is a big slip up. It's possible they got the mission designation wrong, rather than the description of it. The Skylab missions were flown with Apollo hardware.

Edit: Nope, they got the description wrong. Hornet Picked up Apollo 11 and 12, the first two Moon Landings. Versus a mere space station...that is rather offensive...shame on them.

[DisarmingBaton5]

It...it took me a depressing amount of time to figure out what XI was.

[Mode7]

At least they aren't denying that the moon landings happened.

[razark]

..a shot of the U.S.S. Hornet and claim it was involved in two of the most important events of the 20th century...

That's more attention to history than I expect these days, so I don't see much reason to complain. Just be glad they weren't denying or forgetting it.

[Tiron]

At least they aren't denying that the moon landings happened.

In the words of Randall Munroe:

If NASA were willing to fake great accomplishments, shouldn't they have another one by now?

[Sandworm]

There was an "Apollo" space station, it was called skylab. They flew to it in nearly identical craft, but the missions were called Skylab-2 through 4. From the perspective of the Hornet where wasn't much difference between apollo and skylab. Perhaps they meant to say that the Hornet participated in Apollo XI through the space station missions? ... but I 'm not sure whether the Hornet was involved or not. There may have been multiple carriers at the ready.

[Tiron]

There was an "Apollo" space station, it was called skylab. They flew to it in nearly identical craft, but the missions were called Skylab-2 through 4. From the perspective of the Hornet where wasn't much difference between apollo and skylab. Perhaps they meant to say that the Hornet participated in Apollo XI through the space station missions? ... but I 'm not sure whether the Hornet was involved or not. There may have been multiple carriers at the ready.

Wiki says Hornet did 11 and 12, nothing about Skylab.

[Mr. Scruffy]

At OP: All the freaking time! About WW2, the financial system, and just general knowledge like the number of US states (amazing how many people think they were 52 of them, instead of 50. If you are short on cash or beer or something, it makes a great betting-lure to start talking about this, casually. Got a whole crate out of it once. Crates offer the additional advantage of including the pun of its bottles being as countable as the stars on the US-flag.)

These topics would offer enough opportunities to be a smart ass, but when it comes to space, it gets really hard not be one. Like this one co-student (talking university, here!) once actually asked me what was bigger: The sun or the moon? Or just recently my best buddy advised me not to separate a stage of a completely fuel-deprived space-craft that i had let fly by kerbin on its return cause i had forgotten about it: Because, you know, heavy things fall faster... right? *rolleyes* He still keeps asking about how long something will remain in its orbit and the answer ´forever´ still seems to be taken as a snobby joke or something by him.

But i shouldnt be complaining, cause after all, it´s me who knows nothing: About movie-stars or the proceedings of some fictional triangle affair on some soap opera. Also, i do not know the name of a single ´idol´ in any nation or who won the last european song contest. Damn it, i am so stupid, i can hardly name a dozen soccer players and assign the team they play in this year to their names. And, probably worst of all, i have never been on facebook or twitter - so how the hell could i possibly be well informed about truely important stuff?

[Kimberly]

He still keeps asking about how long something will remain in its orbit and the answer ´forever´ still seems to be taken as a snobby joke or something by him.

Well, in a perfect simulation, all of the orbits would decay eventually. Exosphere and solar pressure and gravitational anomalies and whatnot...So he's got the right idea, really. He just doesn't know it yet.

I don't know if it counts as a "historical screw-up", but I was rather offended by text accompanying a display on Ellis Island. It said, in no uncertain terms, that the United States instigated the Mexican-American War to force Mexico to cede territory. That's hugely biased against the US; it ignores the existing tension between the US and Mexico and the many diplomatic incidents actually caused by Mexico. It plays into the ultra-cynical image of the United States a lot of people have today, and I think it's very inappropriate for a museum to encourage that--least of all on Ellis Island!

[Jackissimus]

At OP: All the freaking time! About WW2, the financial system, and just general knowledge like the number of US states (amazing how many people think they were 52 of them, instead of 50. If you are short on cash or beer or something, it makes a great betting-lure to start talking about this, casually. Got a whole crate out of it once. Crates offer the additional advantage of including the pun of its bottles being as countable as the stars on the US-flag.)

These topics would offer enough opportunities to be a smart ass, but when it comes to space, it gets really hard not be one. Like this one co-student (talking university, here!) once actually asked me what was bigger: The sun or the moon? Or just recently my best buddy advised me not to separate a stage of a completely fuel-deprived space-craft that i had let fly by kerbin on its return cause i had forgotten about it: Because, you know, heavy things fall faster... right? *rolleyes* He still keeps asking about how long something will remain in its orbit and the answer ´forever´ still seems to be taken as a snobby joke or something by him.

But i shouldnt be complaining, cause after all, it´s me who knows nothing: About movie-stars or the proceedings of some fictional triangle affair on some soap opera. Also, i do not know the name of a single ´idol´ in any nation or who won the last european song contest. Damn it, i am so stupid, i can hardly name a dozen soccer players and assign the team they play in this year to their names. And, probably worst of all, i have never been on facebook or twitter - so how the hell could i possibly be well informed about truely important stuff?

Oh man, you are my idol. I think I could do this rant to the face of about 95% of the people I meet every day.

Like recently, I was sitting with a lawyer friend outside a pub having a beer and I looked up and said - "Look, ISS!". And he actually said: "Oh yeah? So why is it moving?" He told me that he thought that once you get things in space, they just float there, motionless.

Or my brother asked me when did this man land on the Moon. I told him there were actually 12 of them and he looked at me incredulously.

Or I told our secretary that there will be a Christmas comet this year and it will most likely be visible with the naked eye, possibly very bright. She laughed at me and actually shared a laugh with my colleague, that it's silly of me to think that comets could be seen with the naked eye, astronomy is after all reserved for the scientists with the big instruments.

I feel with you.

[Jackissimus]

Well, in a perfect simulation, all of the orbits would decay eventually. Exosphere and solar pressure and gravitational anomalies and whatnot...So he's got the right idea, really. He just doesn't know it yet.

I don't know if it counts as a "historical screw-up", but I was rather offended by text accompanying a display on Ellis Island. It said, in no uncertain terms, that the United States instigated the Mexican-American War to force Mexico to cede territory. That's hugely biased against the US; it ignores the existing tension between the US and Mexico and the many diplomatic incidents actually caused by Mexico. It plays into the ultra-cynical image of the United States a lot of people have today, and I think it's very inappropriate for a museum to encourage that--least of all on Ellis Island!

This is actually a great table for deltaV budgets that the satellites need to account for to keep them in the desired orbits:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta-v_budget#Stationkeeping

It's very little (like 5m/s per year), but it's there. Even the Moon is not in a stable orbit, but that has more to do with tidal forces.

[DngrMse]

Oh man, you are my idol. I think I could do this rant to the face of about 95% of the people I meet every day.

Like recently, I was sitting with a lawyer friend outside a pub having a beer and I looked up and said - "Look, ISS!". And he actually said: "Oh yeah? So why is it moving?" He told me that he thought that once you get things in space, they just float there, motionless.

Or my brother asked me when did this man land on the Moon. I told him there were actually 12 of them and he looked at me incredulously.

Or I told our secretary that there will be a Christmas comet this year and it will most likely be visible with the naked eye, possibly very bright. She laughed at me and actually shared a laugh with my colleague, that it's silly of me to think that comets could be seen with the naked eye, astronomy is after all reserved for the scientists with the big instruments.

I feel with you.

Reminds me of the story of the Heavy Boots.

Briefly, a bunch of college kids were asked what would happen if you dropped an item while standing on the moon. The choices were: 1. It would just float 2. It would fall to the ground. and 3. It would float away. The most popular answer was #1. When confronted with evidence of men walking around on the surface, and asked why they didn't just float away, the most frequent response given was that the astronauts were wearing heavy boots.

[Mercy]

Versus a mere space station...that is rather offensive...shame on them.

Space station? Mere? Ahaha, get out.

[Themohawkninja]

The Hornet picked up Apollo 11? Cool! I just read 30 Seconds over Tokyo which is a first hand account of one of the planes in the Doolittle Raid which were launched off of the Hornet. Too bad it got sunk in Santa Cruz.

The only screw up I remember was when in a documentary they showed what they claimed to be an AK-47, when it was most obviously not an AK-47, and rather looked more like an AEK-971 or something similar to that.

EDIT: The U.S.S. Hornet in the Doolittle Raid was a different ship than the one that picked up Apollo 11.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Themohawkninja

[dragoncannon]

I sometimes feel this way all the time :-P

Especially when I gear the Western media discuss the Middle East! Don't even get me started!! (or get me started... Middle East Politics lesson, anyone?)

However, I have most found it necessary to correct teachers throughout my life! This is an unfortunate statement to the educational system!

[Sandworm]

At OP: All the freaking time! About WW2, the financial system, and just general knowledge like the number of US states (amazing how many people think they were 52 of them, instead of 50. If you are short on cash or beer or something, it makes a great betting-lure to start talking about this, casually. Got a whole crate out of it once. Crates offer the additional advantage of including the pun of its bottles being as countable as the stars on the US-flag.)

Lol, the one thing every non-american knows is to never ever talk to an american about WW2. The american perspective on that war is so much a part of American self identity that any debate, any deviation from the collective, is taken as an affront. I was at a lecture where the guest speaker was talking about the economic impact of bombing campaigns in various wars, from Spain to Iraq I. The anger, the snide remarks ... in an econ lecture! So I suspect that many of these uncorrected discrepancies about WWII are a matter of which US highschool you attended, which version you were taught. Cold war, space race, Korea, Iraq... those are open for discussion. But WWII, and perhaps Vietnam, are closed topics. Everyone knows that when it comes to cherished history it's just easier to let people keep their stories rather than get into a debate about wars soon out of living memory.

Of course if you really want to get an american going, just ask about canada's and/or France's role in the american revolution. That brings the crazy real fast.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Sandworm

[Kerbart]

[...] the Apollo XI manned "space station mission." Um...You mean manned moon landing.

That was probably just a slip of the tongue. The space station was where the Apollo 11 crew stayed before returning to earth 8 days later, while the tv stations were broadcasting previously recorded footage made in a studio in Area 51.

[Kimberly]

Of course if you really want to get an american going, just ask about canada's and/or France's role in the american revolution. That brings the crazy real fast.

In my experience, it's often the Canadians that underestimate their role in the American Revolution. They enjoying playing it as an "us vs. them", much like the War of 1812, underestimating the amount of Canadians that fought on the US side and the very real possibility of the colony having joined us.

[jwenting]

That's more attention to history than I expect these days, so I don't see much reason to complain. Just be glad they weren't denying or forgetting it.

There were actually 2 different ships, both called Hornet, involved in WW2. Most people mean the first, not the second, when they mean Hornet in that context

CV-8 was involved in the Doolittle raid and Midway before being sunk in 1943, CV-12 was part of the Apollo recovery fleet (it did take part in the latter stages of WW2 (she was only declared combat ready in February 1944, entering combat in June of that year. A year later she was withdrawn from combat when her flight deck was seriously damaged in a typhoon, she did not see combat again until the Korean war).

[Outback_Zach]

Lol, the one thing every non-american knows is to never ever talk to an american about WW2. The american perspective on that war is so much a part of American self identity that any debate, any deviation from the collective, is taken as an affront.

This is beyond correct. I am American, going to American schools, and it is ridiculous some of the things people say about WWII. I happen too find WWII one of the most interesting points in history, so I cringe at the ignorance in my classes. Most students in my high school think the allies basically won the war because of our brute patriotism power and stunning good looks. It greatly saddens me.

[Kimberly]

This is beyond correct. I am American, going to American schools, and it is ridiculous some of the things people say about WWII. I happen too find WWII one of the most interesting points in history, so I cringe at the ignorance in my classes. Most students in my high school think the allies basically won the war because of our brute patriotism power and stunning good looks. It greatly saddens me.

On other hand, my experience in Europe has taught me that people there aren't exactly experts on World War II either. They mostly learn about the heroics of their local partisan force, or whatever war crime happened to occur in their country, and don't know much about the war in general. I think this is a pretty international phenomenon.

I think the Why We Fight series actually provides a great narrative of World War II. It's biased, but the bias is clearly recognizable, and it gives plenty of attention to the war in Europe before US involvement, the Battle of Britain, China, Russia, etc. Many modern documentaries tend to be more subtle with what they leave out or are biased towards, making it harder to filter out, with the strange result that a government propaganda series ends up a better source.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Kimberly

[SourMonkey]

I have seen the same things as Kimberly and Zach in those regards. The fact of the matter is that you will see a large portion of, often outspoken, people that have a ridiculously limited and skewed view of points of history such as the wars. They are not going anywhere and have existed in every country for the most part. I find that those heavily biased and false views aren't restricted to the US, Canada, or western Europe either, I've heard or spoken to people from many different places that have "Rah-Rah for me!" syndrome.

But back on the thread topic, I've seen many things just not right. Not too many just stand out in my memory, but one thing that I always found funny was when they were showing or speaking of something, and then would show something completely different. Ie: like showing a SBD Dauntless turn into a wildcat while talking about a torpedo run.

[Tiron]

This is beyond correct. I am American, going to American schools, and it is ridiculous some of the things people say about WWII. I happen too find WWII one of the most interesting points in history, so I cringe at the ignorance in my classes. Most students in my high school think the allies basically won the war because of our brute patriotism power and stunning good looks. It greatly saddens me.

As opposed to our massive industrial power and absurd amounts of money. And the Russians doing most of the 'Dying' part. I tend to think of our role in Europe during WWII basically having been making sure Stalin only got HALF of Europe afterwards.

Simple fact is though, WWII is the only time in history that someone has fought a war on two different fronts and won.