What I hate the most about downloading spaceships....

[kiwi1960]

... is when the creator claims its STOCK but its not...

These people should be told off for, at best, getting it wrong, at worst, downright telling lies.

To me, STOCK means made with the parts that shipped with the game...

If its made with any parts you added or created, then its NOT stock.

Its the same as having an unmodified car, you call that stock... but if you modified it, added a turbo, then its NOT stock...

[Moon Goddess]

While I personally cannot understand why anyone would download a craft if it was stock, I completely agree with you that stock means just that... stock.

[Guest]

I can't understand why anyone would download a craft, period. That's half of the game! Regardless, I agree that if someone claims a craft is STOCK and they don't provide a STOCK craft, they are bad people.

[Accelerando]

I would presume that people download stock craft files because they want to pilot something without having to install and keep track of one or fifty mods, and to see how others' vehicles are built and how they actually fly

Not everything can be gleaned by looking at the pictures, and not everybody wants to always build another stupid scrap heap every time they want to play KSP to fly

[Moon Goddess]

Well what I mean is I'll use someone elses craft sometimes if I'm using modded parts that I can't figure out how they are intended to go together or if they are intended to make just one ship. (Component Space Shuttle, DEMV mk4)

Otherwise, building crafts is like 90% of the game to me, I spend way more time in VAB than I do with anything in flight. I build tons of things that I never launch.

[fatfluffycat]

Downloading other people crafts is.....why would you do it? Building Is the game best feature. And stock should mean stock parts....I guess.

[kiwi1960]

Yes, I download to LEARN, no one enters this game knowing it all unless they are a rocket scientist...

There is nothing wrong with downloading space craft PERIOD, and those that try to belittle others for doing it, get off your high horse because the lack of oxygen is affecting your brain.

There are those, I imagine, that download them because they want a simple game without much brain work... who are we to judge them?

Anyhow, thanks for agreeing that stock means stock. Now, how do we convince these people to get real?

[fatfluffycat]

Yes, I download to LEARN, no one enters this game knowing it all unless they are a rocket scientist...

There is nothing wrong with downloading space craft PERIOD, and those that try to belittle others for doing it, get off your high horse because the lack of oxygen is affecting your brain.

There are those, I imagine, that download them because they want a simple game without much brain work... who are we to judge them?

Anyhow, thanks for agreeing that stock means stock. Now, how do we convince these people to get real?

I understand now, I remember when I first bought the game, designing rockets that worked was hard.

[razark]

If it's labeled stock, it should be stock. Not knowing what you're talking about, though, is it possible someone forgot that they had a mod part on it?

I build tons of things that I never launch.

Honestly, no offense meant because I realize that we all play this game differently. I just cannot fathom why you would build something that you don't intend to fly.

[M5000]

I just cannot fathom why you would build something that you don't intend to fly.

No, I get it.. Don't worry Moon Goddess, you're not the only one who does this.

I don't know if the reasons we have for not flying stuff ever is the same, but there have been many times I've built things that never flew.

For example, the design just turns out ugly in my eyes. I really try to avoid flying ugly rockets. Elegance in my program is key.

But yes, I spend so much time in the VAB it's insane, sometimes by definition. I design the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Other times, a craft is just too much work and I dump it.

You are not alone!

[Guest]

There is nothing wrong with downloading space craft PERIOD, and those that try to belittle others for doing it, get off your high horse because the lack of oxygen is affecting your brain.

Truly, people were belittled in this thread.

[Sapphire]

I can't understand why anyone would download a craft, period. That's half of the game!

+1 to this. I feel bad using ships that I didn't build; even when I do download a .craft, it's to dissect it to see how it works, then make my own.

[Stone Blue]

I agree, people sharing craft should be up front and honest about what its built with, and more importantly, take some time to go thru it and make sure its as advertised before posting it.

One way to see if a downloaded craft matches your stock, or modded install, is to use the Craft validater in KSP Mod Admin. It checks all your craft files against all installed parts (stock and mods). It highlites any missing parts, and tells you the part "title" as used in the VAB/SPH, as well as the folder "name" of the part, making it easier to figure out EXACTLY which part(s) is/are missing. It would be a good way to double check a craft before you post it anywhere, as well, just in case there's that ONE, LITTLE mod part you forgot about...lol

I also agree that there are good reasons for downloading craft. Lots of times I see pics, and even detailed descriptions of someones construction technique, but I just cant wrap my head around it. I could see where having it IN the game, and getting to SEE how its put together, by TAKING it apart, or even flying it, could help share construction techniques.

Dont think of posting a craft, and someone downloading it, is just a way for people to "cheat", or skip thru the game...

Think of it as sharing a lesson plan, or a textbook...What's being shared is more important than just a quick way to skip building your own craft...Its KNOWLEDGE and EXPERIENCE....Which may make the difference between someone getting frustrated by the game and never touching it again, or someone getting as "addicted" as you are...lol

Edited September 28, 2013 by Stone Blue

[Tiron]

I second the question as to if it was something really blatant or if they merely forgot to remove something. For ages the mods parts I used were almost exclusively small things that stuck on the surface, and could be removed without much of an effect. I *did* put a stock version of one of my planes on spaceport, mostly just to prove a point in a thread about spin characteristics. (Specifically, that it was possible to design a plane that could recover from a spin without problems. I'd already done it, so I threw that up there as a demonstration.)

[HeadHunter67]

Keep one thing in mind...

As soon as you drop a craft file into your VAB folder, it will show up with (Stock) next to the craft title in your VAB list. This doesn't mean it's all stock parts, it just means it was not a custom design by you in the VAB.

I'd be willing to bet that's part of the reason behind this tempest in a teapot.

[AlternNocturn]

At least give people the benefit of the doubt. I remember one time I uploaded a craft and advertised it as stock and completely forgot about the MechJeb and the Tosh Rovers I was using (it was a rover drop ship). Needless to say I let the thread fade into obscurity.

[CoriW]

You see, this is why I usually try to avoid part mods if I can, and if it's something like MechJeb, Engineer Redux, or Protractor where the functionality is built into a single mod part, I'll just use ModuleManager to put their functionality right into all my command pods. In this way I can share "Stock" craft even if they have these mods, because they only have the mods for me. In the same way I can also download "Stock" craft and they will automatically have all the plugin features I would like them to have without me touching anything on the craft itself.

Although with that being said, some mods that contain many parts are just too good to pass up, like Kethane.

[Levelord]

I can't understand why anyone would download a craft, period. That's half of the game! Regardless, I agree that if someone claims a craft is STOCK and they don't provide a STOCK craft, they are bad people.

If a craft is particularly well designed, I tend to download them and dismantle them to learn the small tricks they used to build them. A few examples were the reverse-engineering of Stabojet crafts for the anti-flameout designs and a few Mublin ships to learn the aesthetics.

[HeadHunter67]

I do the same thing. I've learned a lot about lander and lifter design by studying how others build their craft. Sometimes I've even found ways to improve on the original craft.

[Moon Goddess]

Yes, I download to LEARN, no one enters this game knowing it all unless they are a rocket scientist...

There is nothing wrong with downloading space craft PERIOD, and those that try to belittle others for doing it, get off your high horse because the lack of oxygen is affecting your brain.

There are those, I imagine, that download them because they want a simple game without much brain work... who are we to judge them?

Anyhow, thanks for agreeing that stock means stock. Now, how do we convince these people to get real?

I wasn't trying to insult you I was just saying I personally couldn't understand doing it. Not that you shouldn't do it.

[kiwi1960]

Moon Goddess, I wasn't really "getting" at anyone, but I have been lurking around the forums before actually joining it and posting, and three things I have noticed, from this, and other forums.

1) Re: Mechjeb, some people think you are beneath contempt for using such a mod.

2) re: mods in general: some people think you are beneath contempt for using such things.

3) re: Down loaded space planes and rockets... as this thread demonstrates, some people don't understand why...

well, regarding no: 3 ... to learn, to pick up tips... to use it as a basis for your own craft... to see how your vehicles should behave...

Example, I built a space station... no one told me about oscillations... or how to fix them... no one told me that the further you have your docking port from mechjeb, the more common it will be for mechjeb to collide with the space station... on that score, I determined the problem myself and fixed it by have the two close together. Regarding the oscillations, that is one thing I am still learning about, and I downloaded a few space stations to see what tricks they used...

Regarding no: 1 ... Mechjeb.... what can I say... I'm 53, suffer from a heart condition, diabetes, Multiple Sclerosis and with that last one, MS induced double vision and MS induced dementia... HEY.... give an old timer a break... if I did ever mange to learn how to dock a space ship, I'd probably forget it the next day, such is the curse of this MS induced dementia... so ANY help I can get from MechJeb... I'll take it...

We are not all young and quick witted....

As for no 2: Using mods enhances the game, if people do not use any mods, then that is their choice and they shouldn't knock people who do use them as that is also a personal choice, for me, it makes the game more fun!

As for belittling people in this thread, that works both ways. I posted that I personally download spaceships, and was... asked why would I want to do that? Sure, when you guys did it, it wasn't REALLY belittling me... and you didn't know about my MS.... and when I posted my comment, it also wasn't belittling anyone except I tried to make a joke out of it that backfired.... you know, High horse, oxygen... Kerbals...orbit.... (groan) never mind.

Given that there is no cure for MS and it will eventually kill me... I want to have fun NOW.... and you may or may not know that no two cases of MS are ever the same, and so it is with humans in general, no one is exactly the same as anyone else... meaning, lets celebrate the diversity that KSP *can* be played differently by everyone... there is nothing worse than a game where you cannot use your imagination.... where is is all mapped out for you...

On that note... in my game, Kerbal kind WILL walk on other worlds... or die in the attempt...

[Sapphire]

Example, I built a space station... no one told me about oscillations... or how to fix them... no one told me that the further you have your docking port from mechjeb, the more common it will be for mechjeb to collide with the space station... on that score, I determined the problem myself and fixed it by have the two close together.

Right-click on your docking port and use "control from here". You'll never ram your stations again.

[kiwi1960]

Right-click on your docking port and use "control from here". You'll never ram your stations again.

You are a LEGEND, now where is the LIKE button or have I been on FaceBook too long?

[Eskarina]

I confess i've downloaded some stock Stols planes to learn why mines always crashes in the rollway.

Edited September 28, 2013 by Eskarina

[magnemoe]

While I personally cannot understand why anyone would download a craft if it was stock, I completely agree with you that stock means just that... stock.

Some reasons, I have downloaded some good balanced and sturdy rovers, who I start tweaking at once.

The only other stock craft was an Apollo style Mun rocket.

I think the problem is that people forget that some parts are from mods, KSPX parts for one but also some decoplers and other parts from novapunch and other is hard to seperate from the stock version.