[WIP] Nert's Dev Thread - Current: various updates

[shynung]

@Siphonophore If the engines' throttle are at 0%, they automatically shut off. You need to set the throttle up before activating them, lest they shut down immediately afterwards

[Roostergod]

when using the charging engines, how do you predict how long the burn will be when you cant turn on the engine?

[Sciencek]

Guess.

Or keep a little record of the thrust available from the engine, the mass of the craft, and the resulting acceleration.

That acceleration won't change too much over the course of most non-brachistochrone burns¹, so you can use it to straight calculate the burn time.

 

1) source: you're using a mega-isp engine. mass differential is not gonna be huge.

[Nertea]

I'm open to better suggestions for how to handle interfacing with the chargeable engines. I recognize this isn't super user friendly.

[Roostergod]

this might be beyond KSPs moddability but i'd say the engine should use its charge when its throttled up instead of when its turned on

[Roostergod]

if your taking suggestions about the mod in general, my other two issues are getting the right fuel mixture since the new tanks only hold the far future fuels, and not hydrogen, and the need for higher power radiators

[T-10a]

52 minutes ago, Roostergod said:

if your taking suggestions about the mod in general, my other two issues are getting the right fuel mixture since the new tanks only hold the far future fuels, and not hydrogen, and the need for higher power radiators

I definitely agree with the first part. Finding the ratios is currently trial and error, so maybe a note in the description of the engines for optimal propellant/fuel ratios would be nice.

As for radiators, the Heat Control mod has a bunch of really good radiators that blend in nicely.

[Roostergod]

Heat control is good, but the radiators just aren't enough for the 100+ megawatt cooling requirements 

[helaeon]

Ideas for chargeable engine behavior:

1) Engine charges when you right click the part and use "charge engine" or stage, there should also be a "discharge engine" option (so you can shut it off). When engine is fully charged and not throttled at 100% the difference in energy must be dissipated somehow. Maybe as heat, maybe as continued full ec drain, combination of both? Engine automatically turns on when it reaches 100% charge regardless of the initial charge status. So if you stage it and are at full throttle, the engine will charge then activate as soon as 100% charge has been reached. If you stage or charge engine, but throttle is at zero, it will activate as soon as you throttle up but you'll have to do something about the energy that needs to be dissipated to maintain charge. In this way I would think they would work a lot like the reactors from NFE.

2)  Engine charges as soon as throttled up there is no pre-charge engine option. Shuts off when throttled down - but dissipates charge over time (kind of like how parts cool off over time) so if you need to do successive burns you don't have to wait the full time for the engine to recharge. So, for the first part of your burn you have zero thrust which would encourage schemes where you charge the engine very quickly rather than trickle charge it. Or use the capacitors from NFT as a pre-charge location then dump all that charge into the engine immediately if you want less delay.

[Roostergod]

also for scientific accuracy's sake using liquid hydrogen to cool a metallic hydrogen rocket decreases the specific impulse quite a bit. maybe have the metallic hydrogen engine be variable ISP, getting higher specific impulse and not using hydrogen, but needing more radiators.

[Nertea]

20 hours ago, Roostergod said:

also for scientific accuracy's sake using liquid hydrogen to cool a metallic hydrogen rocket decreases the specific impulse quite a bit. maybe have the metallic hydrogen engine be variable ISP, getting higher specific impulse and not using hydrogen, but needing more radiators.

Perhaps you should try using the engine a bit and you'll already see this.

On 9/17/2017 at 4:24 PM, helaeon said:

1) Engine charges when you right click the part and use "charge engine" or stage, there should also be a "discharge engine" option (so you can shut it off). When engine is fully charged and not throttled at 100% the difference in energy must be dissipated somehow. Maybe as heat, maybe as continued full ec drain, combination of both? Engine automatically turns on when it reaches 100% charge regardless of the initial charge status. So if you stage it and are at full throttle, the engine will charge then activate as soon as 100% charge has been reached. If you stage or charge engine, but throttle is at zero, it will activate as soon as you throttle up but you'll have to do something about the energy that needs to be dissipated to maintain charge. In this way I would think they would work a lot like the reactors from NFE.

2)  Engine charges as soon as throttled up there is no pre-charge engine option. Shuts off when throttled down - but dissipates charge over time (kind of like how parts cool off over time) so if you need to do successive burns you don't have to wait the full time for the engine to recharge. So, for the first part of your burn you have zero thrust which would encourage schemes where you charge the engine very quickly rather than trickle charge it. Or use the capacitors from NFT as a pre-charge location then dump all that charge into the engine immediately if you want less delay.

Seems complicated... looking more to make it more intuitive.

On 9/17/2017 at 10:45 AM, Roostergod said:

Heat control is good, but the radiators just aren't enough for the 100+ megawatt cooling requirements 

It's hard to say what you actually need, but you don't need 100% of the cooling spec. 

On 9/16/2017 at 8:01 PM, Roostergod said:

if your taking suggestions about the mod in general, my other two issues are getting the right fuel mixture since the new tanks only hold the far future fuels, and not hydrogen, and the need for higher power radiators

I'll try to add some notes, but trial and error is going to be a bit involved. 

[JadeOfMaar]

@Nertea Here's my findings concerning the reactor start problem.

• Attempting to start one with no (or not enough) active radiators triggers it. I assume the reactor overheats in a flash.
• Quickload (with enough active radiators) fixes it.

Edited September 25, 2017 by JadeOfMaar

[shynung]

Is there a way to get metallic hydrogen (MetalH) resource anywhere other than from the pad? I don't see any of the ISRU processors listing it.

[123nick]

man, this mod is really cool! imo, i think you should put a link too it in your signature, like with your other mods. it may not be 100% finished but it sure feels like it, from my experiences

[Nertea]

On 10/14/2017 at 7:57 AM, shynung said:

Is there a way to get metallic hydrogen (MetalH) resource anywhere other than from the pad? I don't see any of the ISRU processors listing it.

No.

12 hours ago, 123nick said:

man, this mod is really cool! imo, i think you should put a link too it in your signature, like with your other mods. it may not be 100% finished but it sure feels like it, from my experiences

No.

I'd have to support it then, which I am not ready to. 

[123nick]

12 hours ago, Nertea said:

 

I'd have to support it then, which I am not ready to. 

fair enough, still, great work on this mod!

 

one thing, i remember reading on the atomic rockets website that, with the NSWR, the storage tanks, if they got damage could lead to a nuclear chain reaction or something- basically, the continual nuclear explosion that happens outside the vessel, starts happening within it, leading to very bad things  

do you plan to implement this? 

[shynung]

15 hours ago, Nertea said:

No.

Did you mean 'no, never', or 'no, not right now'?

Also, regarding that: are you planning to make some resources (e.g. metallic hydrogen) available only from Kerbin, or to make all resources used in this mod able to be procured elsewhere (ISRU)?

Edited October 21, 2017 by shynung

[T-10a]

10 hours ago, shynung said:

Did you mean 'no, never', or 'no, not right now'?

Also, regarding that: are you planning to make some resources (e.g. metallic hydrogen) available only from Kerbin, or to make all resources used in this mod able to be procured elsewhere (ISRU)?

Considering how difficult it is to synthesize metallic hydrogen IRL, I doubt it'll be added to the ISRU chain. Things like fission/fusion pellets, deuterium and Helium-3, and Antimatter can be found in situ (the pellets can be made already with currently implemented parts, Deuterium and Helium-3 does exist in nature, and antimatter is theorised to exist in "magnetic bottles" in the magnetospheres of various planets). Nuclear salt water may be tricky, AFAIK it is just U-235 dissolved as a salt in water, but some people like Angel-125 have used Explodium as a Kerbal version of it that exists in Eve's oceans.

In the end, it's not my decision, but Nertea's. Though the thought of a space diamond anvil is pretty cool.

[Nertea]

@T-10a summarized my thoughts on the subject very well.

[Sciencek]

Regarding metallic hydrogen:

If one were to make an ISRU, to be remotely realistic (IMO) about its difficulty to produce, it would have to be a unique part. Big, huge, heavy as hell, takes a load of power to run, produces oodles of heat, and even then, produces Metal-H at a minuscule rate. (like, fill your tanks over the course of years) Honestly, it's going to be a process limited to massive industrial-scale installations for any reasonable rates of production.

Speaking of which.

I've noticed that the gimbal pistons on the implausibility engine aren't quite working.

EDIT:

For clarity's sake: the piston cylinders look just fine and lined up when the engine is at dead-center position, but they stay in that orientation relative to their parent section when it gimbals away.

So as the engine bell moves, the piston ends attached to it slide out of the piston ends attached to the base.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Sciencek
More in-depth information.

[Sciencek]

On another, entirely separate note, the ISP and thrust curves of that engine are messed up.

As more mass is added into the propellant stream (Increase mixing ratio of LqdHyd in this case), the thrust should ALWAYS go up.

Currently, it goes down.

I have tried messing around with the cfg files to make my install have it as such but that hasn't worked. Who has more experience working with variable engine modules than me?

[shynung]

Hi again Nert. So much questions this time, I hope you don't mind too much.

- Thanks to CRP, orbital scans using the stock scanner antenna reveals surface availability of rare resources such as Helium-3 on planets and moons, such as the Mun. Do you plan to make these surface resources available through the mod? If so, would you rather make a specialized 'mining drill' part, or stick a MM config on the stock drill? (if the latter, I may be able to kludge together said config, should the need arises.)

- Current fusion reactor implementation renders them capable of using either D-D or D-He3 reactions, while fusion engines only using D-He3. Do you plan to keep it that way, or are there plans to enable fusion engines to use D-D reactions at some other cost (say, specific impulse drop)?

- Are there plans for:
  - antimatter power reactors?
  - antimatter factory part?
  - ship-to-ship energy transfer system?

- Last, but not least, what's the current progress on the remaining FFT parts and elements yet to be released?

[Nertea]

On 10/28/2017 at 11:07 AM, shynung said:

- Thanks to CRP, orbital scans using the stock scanner antenna reveals surface availability of rare resources such as Helium-3 on planets and moons, such as the Mun. Do you plan to make these surface resources available through the mod? If so, would you rather make a specialized 'mining drill' part, or stick a MM config on the stock drill? (if the latter, I may be able to kludge together said config, should the need arises.)

- Current fusion reactor implementation renders them capable of using either D-D or D-He3 reactions, while fusion engines only using D-He3. Do you plan to keep it that way, or are there plans to enable fusion engines to use D-D reactions at some other cost (say, specific impulse drop)?

- Are there plans for:
  - antimatter power reactors?
  - antimatter factory part?
  - ship-to-ship energy transfer system?

Nah. But I will go one step further and present the why!

1) Surface harvesting is a big can of worms that I don't want to open at the moment. Perhaps later with some other things that are happening.
2) This is a bit of a way of gatekeeping these engines. The one remaining engine to implement will have both modes though as it sits before everything in the tree.
3) No.
4) No.
5) Would like to, but would rather finish Radioactivity before creating a new very complex mod....

And the last... well, the GitHub issues page is always the page to look at for progress.

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by Nertea

[Nertea]

Official 1.3.1 update!

I'm still soliciting feedback on the insta-shutdown for fusion reactors. I've fixed several edge cases that have been reported, but please, if anyone sees this again, a log, screenshots and above all else reproduction steps are something I could really use.

This is a minor update that mostly fixes minor bugs

FFT 0.2.4

•  KSP 1.3.1
• Dependency updates
• Fixed angled thrust issue on FFRE
• Fixed gimbal pistons on MetallicH2 engine
• Changed fusion reactor module name to fix conflict with DSEV
• Made ModuleMultiRatioEngine configurable with MinMixingRatio and MaxMixingRatio fields. Note that the RatioScale must map correctly to changed values or unpredictable behaviour may result. 
• Added some indications of required fuel tank ratios to some engine descriptions (more to come)

Have fun

[KerBlitz Kerman]

@Nertea just out of curiosity why isn't out on Spacedock? That would make it easier to find version? Also OP version making please. Thank you for this incredible mod. If you have spare time though would you consider doing a Tweakscale config as it would help to give the Nuclear Salt Water fuel tanks more functionality. But that isn't something needed now. Once again, Thank you for the mod, as always textures are beautiful and masterfully designed. It adds more variety to the game, so we thank you for it.

Edited November 3, 2017 by KerBlitz Kerman