Will we ever see the finished game?

[allmhuran]

But it is unusual to start selling this unfinished product.

I would contend that this model is actually becoming the norm, at least as far as games development goes.

For an established software development house that makes retail business products I would agree that whatever methodology is used during development, you generally have, at most, an RC and / or CTP, before shipping the final "gold" product (but don't forget about service packs!).

This is also a model that large games companies (EA, valve) can get away with. In both cases it's viable because there is continuous funding coming in from other projects as well as a large pool of existing funds to draw from.

But for an "independent" (or previously uknown) group, development of a game is a risky proposition. It's hard, it takes a long time, and your market is difficult to predict.

Indeed, even large business retail software companies generally have ongoing development, because virtually no business grabs a product off the shelf and plugs it directly into their systems. Things need to be tweaked and customized. You have whole armies of expensive consultants out there doing just this kind of work, and I don't see this as being terribly different from the kind of business model adopted by Squad for KSP (or several other games development companies over the last few years).

Without this model KSP would never have existed.

Edited October 3, 2013 by allmhuran

[Monkeh]

That playability part was little bit less than I expected and no solid plans for game completion makes me even more frustrated.

It's this bit I don't understand. Yeah I get how someone might feel like the development is going slowly and yeah, there are a few little bugs and the game may crash every now and then and it would be nice to have a few more things to play with but...less playability?

There's so much to do in this game. I haven't even begun to scratch the surface of everything I want to have a go at yet, and I'm over 300 hours in now.

Bases, space stations, planes, kethane, mapping, new parts and new content all over the place.

KSP is the best £12, (yay steam sales), I ever spent on a game, easily. It's getting more content all the time, slowly maybe, but it's coming and the poster above who mentions Rome II has a great point, that game was so unfinished I literally had 13 hours of gameplay ruined by game breaking glitches over 2 separate saves. I haven't played it since and won't until they patch it a bit more.

Patience is a virtue, give Squad time and it looks like they'll give you a belter.

[Richy teh space man]

I feel that I've got my moneys worth out of the game already, in fact probably several times over.

As to when version 1.0 is coming out, I think it depends on just what exactly is going to be added into the final version of the game.

[Proxima]

Honestly, I play a lot of alpha and beta games. Because I find them really enjoyable and getting an early release means that there will be bugs, but with that comes the idea that if you get bored of the game (which doesn't happen much), and an update will come along and the game will be even better, with new parts and bug fixes. The bugs are all part and parcel of a beta. Honestly when you get into a beta, why would you want to stop updates?

[Corw]

You have to build code that is optimized and stable on the first try. If you think a method is not perfect as you're coding, keep working on it. Not in a multi-year project with public releases! Because you'll end up wasting time later.

No, you do not. If it was a military project with detailed specification, yes, but this is not case.

Premature optimization is a waste of time. Optimization of some parts of code may be complete waste of time anyway. If they are working well enough, there is no reason to make it perfect.

On project like this there is so much new stuff that you are experimenting with and have vague ideas how things might work so even if you think you are optimizing something, you might be wrong.

The optimal solution is to build the damn thing so it actually works then you identify the bottlenecks and optimize them until it is good enough.

Perfect game is a myth, you could optimize forever. And then they release new framework/drivers/whatever and you are not "perfect" again..

[leax256]

crippled FPS. In the end bugs was the factor that stopped me for playing KSP any further. Building the flawed lander design is one thing sad but encouraging in the way (to build a better ship) but inability to land your ship due to the faulty docking port is another, same with parts are dropping of the big ships for no apparent reason anomalous spinnding forse, lander legs falling off after save\load, ships get stuck in the surface of the planets, strange freezes when spacecenter becomes unrespondable, corrupted savegames after some bugs.

fps issue, currenently used unity physics limitation(it only uses one thread)

bugs...far and few between...cept for random spinning forces, that is usually part clipping gone wrong...or not enough control parts.(execption to this is if you are Danny)

[jfx]

FPS won't be a problem in the future unless they add lag from what currently exists. Remember that we'll have better PCs by then.

Example: my old laptop, made in April 2010, runs KSP ok at normal settings with decent-sized ships.

My new similarly priced laptop (except for an SSD that ramps up the price somewhat) can run the same ships at around double to quadruple the FPS.

You won't see similar gains again. New CPUs gains in single core performance decrease with each generation. Once Intel releases six and eight core parts for mainstream platforms there is a chance that it will stagnate completely.

[rkman]

Who want to complete the game if you can still make the revenue from the unfinished project sound perfect for indie dev right?

Reasons for devs to finish the game: they can still make revenue from the finished project, and then they don't have the expenses that come with keeping it development.

[RawChicken]

... But when you start exploring more distant targets and bigger goals (and bigger goals means bigger and more complicated ships) the game becomes less and less enjoyable and more and more time consuming with poorer and poorer results not by the lack of your space engineering and or piloting skills but more and more due to the bugs and crippled FPS.

Well if you dont know how to play it is not the developers fault. I do enormous voyages to Jool and Eeloo without FPS drop or bugs keeping me from enjoying the game.

But i undestand what you say. I currently play less KSP as I want to wait and play it when the game is near finish. That doesnt keep me from building a spaceplane occasionally.

Also, the engineering of the game is what makes it fun and a challenge. If you get to the moon and see you didnt add landing legs, well, too bad, try your best at landing in the engine. Plan your missions well! Same if in a FPS you forget to reload I guess... Anyone complaining about this aspects just dont see the fun in ksp

[karolus10]

I believe that many people misunderstood what "early access" actually mean and what are you paid for .

Early access meant that you will get product in actual state of development and every following update for free, before final version.

Developers has NO OBLIGATION to deliver you anything more and every next update can be called the final one if they will want to (so as long they developing the game it's more profit for You).

SQUAD has clearly stated what he deliver when You buy Kerbal Space Program in KSP terms of service document, available HERE.

Also Early access games concept are clearly explained on steam web page.

EDIT_1:

BTW, I spend much more money on other games that not get me even half of fun I had with KSP or was just terrible mistake... so It was beast game deal I ever made and don't regretting any penny spend on it !

Edited October 3, 2013 by karolus10

[Mordeth]

I only needed 10 hours of gameplay to understand my cash was well spent on this game. Even if it does not reach a final release stage. I am pretty new to be fair, but these guys seem to be on the ball.

[PwnedDuck]

I wonder if there what exactly will mark the transition from not done to not not done...

Will there be a 0.99 which introduces a whole set of super large size parts (not speculation, purely for example), and the 1.00 introduces super large size docking ports and tricouplers and civilian air traffic on Kerbin or something and then the game is 'done'...

[Pulstar]

The game is at a pretty advanced stage now. It needs mostly career mode mechanics (research, missions, budgets, advanced crew management), some flight system upgrades (better aerodynamics, heatshields and re-entry heat, payload fairings, life support), art polish on existing assets (spaceplane parts, more planetary terrain features, better scatter) plus some other content (asteroids, new planets, resources, weather, terrain hazards, some exotic parts).

I'm pretty confident about SQUAD and KSP's progress, mostly because HarvesteR has a very clear vision of what he wants the game to be about in matters of gameplay, scope and progression (something you couldn't say about minecraft IMO but I digress), and because the things that are left are mostly not that much of a technical challenge compared to the systems already in place. You have to remember that IIRC docking is in the game for only 10 months and was added 3 updates ago, other planets were added in an update before that, persistence was added a few months before that in early last year (again IIRC). Sure, some things changed (resources getting delayed) but I understand why the developers chose what they chose since career mode existed pretty much only on paper for the 2 years (IIRC, again) of development.

Development seemed a bit slow this year, due to the needed under the hood changes rather than content (also development asymptotes as HarvesteR Called them). However R&D is looking really impressive and I am personally satisfied with the current direction of KSP's development. For a game development debut this is a very ambitious project, it has certain risks (I have seen so much vaporware in all these years I have been a gamer) yet despite that I don't regret spending my money on it and I'm not really alarmed that something may be going wrong. It may have looked like that earlier in the year, since people were a bit disappointed after 0.18 and 0.17 bringing in pretty big changes in content, but now I see that there is a clear plan on what has to be done to "finish" the game. Of course I still think it will take months (as in more than a year) to finish this, but overall development is IMO closer to the point completion than that of its beginning.

[magnemoe]

You won't see similar gains again. New CPUs gains in single core performance decrease with each generation. Once Intel releases six and eight core parts for mainstream platforms there is a chance that it will stagnate completely.

There is an interest in improving single core performance however its hard. Few tricks left so you can get more done each clock cycle and hard to continue to increase the speed. Getting unity to do physic on more cores is far simpler.

[Requiem762]

Personally, I seriously doubt that any of these 'early access' games will ever be truly completed. It's much better for the developer to keep them in alpha or beta eternally, as that way, they never have to take responsibility for bugs, or be accountable in any other way.

It seems to be going in that direction with other games. Star citizen however is technically early access it's just not a steam game instead it's opting for modular release with defined dates and goals so you won't be getting a base game that gets patched in alpha forever you'd be getting finished parts of the project

[DChurchill]

I hope it's never "finished". New updates and features every couple months for $20? Sign me up. Oh, wait. I already did, sight unseen.

Anyone that expects any piece of software to be bug free is going to be disappointed. I think Squad has an, I don't want to say obligation, because to me it's something short of that, to release content that's major bug free. And if not, to release a fix for that bug post-haste. So far, they have done that. I have no complaints.

Edited October 3, 2013 by DChurchill

[esinohio]

Since I purchased this from Steam, and Steam was crystal clear on what "Early Access" means, I knew exactly what I was getting into when I purchased the game. Personally I thought the idea of joining an Alpha/Beta/etc. as a tester would be fun and rewarding and thus far has been everything I had hoped. I understood there would be bugs and that some playability issues might spawn from that. I actually had small hopes of finding a new bug myself, sadly none yet but over 800 hours in and still looking. Playing to find those bugs has made me better at the mechanics and made it that much more enjoyable. I can see though how some of those bugs might frustrate people. I just work around it and trudge onward. This community is always great for suggesting work-a-rounds.

Not sure where the "No solid plans for game completion" comes from. I can only guess you mean there is no official timeline of sorts setup with a release date? While I can see how that would be frustrating to some, for me it is actually encouraging. I like the idea of a non rushed team of people producing quality work. I am perfectly content with the pace of updates thus far considering the major changes each update brings. New patch means back to square one in the great bug hunt! Thus the cycle repeats and my KSP heaven continues.

[Prome]

I like the idea of a non rushed team of people producing quality work. I am perfectly content with the pace of updates thus far considering the major changes each update brings. New patch means back to square one in the great bug hunt! Thus the cycle repeats and my KSP heaven continues.

I particularly like that bit, Well said good sir.

[magnemoe]

Personally, I seriously doubt that any of these 'early access' games will ever be truly completed. It's much better for the developer to keep them in alpha or beta eternally, as that way, they never have to take responsibility for bugs, or be accountable in any other way.

Getting the game final version enables them to sell expansions packs and then the next version, both are more interesting than staying incomplete.

This requires that you finish at least most of the features. Resources as an expansion pack would be dropping planned features, interstellar travel would probably not.

[csanders]

Considering what this game does, and the size of the team, it's remarkably bug free.

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

Don't care, got my money's worth.

Same here. But deep in my heart I hope that KSP will be developed forever :]

[regex]

Same here. But deep in my heart I hope that KSP will be developed forever :]

Oh, I'm sure we'll get at least another year of updates out of SQUAD, possibly two. And then there's the modding community. KSP isn't dying any time soon.

[techonce]

I've been playing since 0.15 I believe and I have experienced very few bugs. I think only once in the hours of playing (~200 pre steam, 58 post steam release) did the game crash while I was playing it. I don't have a beast of a system. Occassionally you find a few minor bugs, but it's a pretty stable game. BUt for an Alpha Build game, it's pretty amazing.

I spent $14 on the game and got 250 hours of enjoyment. THat brings the per hour cost down to about 6 cents an hour... no complaints there.

Heck even if you only base it on the hours recorded by steam it comes to a quarter per hour.

I foolishly bought the Star Trek game. Completed it with a buddy in 16 hours, and by most standards that was not exactly speedy. I spent $50. At $3/hour, it was a ripoff.

Civ V. 413 hours on record, spent $130 on game plus expansions (wow! I never added that up before). 30 cents an hour. Feels worth it to me, and that number will only be going down since I will play it until far into the future.

[CorperalVasquez]

And remember this:

If it's documented, then it's not a bug, It's a FEATURE!

-B gates, On windows 98 DEV.

[Alshain]

Year.... old... thread.