[0.25] Engine Ignitor (Workaround for some bugs V3.4.1: Aug.31)

[firstpirlo]

everytime there's an update of KSP, there comes the busy hours of all modders.

which western mod I haven't seen?

[rpayne88]

Can you add a "throttle lock" to this. I routinely accidentally cut the engine while trying to reduce the throttle to idle (i.e. just above cut off.)

[Supernovy]

A simple fix for that would be adding non-zero minThrust values for all the engines.

[HoneyFox]

Can you add a "throttle lock" to this. I routinely accidentally cut the engine while trying to reduce the throttle to idle (i.e. just above cut off.)

Well i wonder if i can hack to stop the game from setting the main throttle to 0, just like how MJ & RT2 do. (and hey won't that even cause more compatibility issues?)

[NathanKell]

Yes it will. RT2 and MJ already had a giant issue about that :\

[CoriW]

Hey HoneyFox, just wanted to let you know that I was messing about with the RLA Stockalike mod and found that your config for it doesn't support all the engines. It's missing the MPR-1 Monopropellent Engine, Rockomax "Spinnaker" Liquid Engine, and LV-T5 Liquid Fuel Engine.

[Guest]

About the name of "HypergolicFluid", it just works as a "placeholder" and it will no longer be used when used with MFS which completes integration with EI. Something like MMH+N2O4, UDMH+N2O4, etc. will replace it I hope.

Why not? Hypergol cartridges are used for many kerolox engines that need to be restarted in flight. For hypergolic engines, it should use a bit of fuel for ignition, but for all others, something else is needed. ElectricCharge or Hypergol would fill that role well.

Also, would it be possible to make this compatible with ModuleEnginesFX? This will probably be used for all the engines in the future, it allows (AFAIK) engine particle effect manipulation.

And yes, I want the ignitor count to be tweakable. There must be a way of adjusting the part's weight to match, too. It's kind of needed for the feature to make sense.

[Lalwcat]

I am unable to get any externally ignited engine to fire up on launch. Whether KW rocketry or stock, no amount of staging will get them to light

What am I doing wrong here? I am unable to surface attach the launch clamps to any engine, and they all need to attack to the bottom of the tank that the engine is attached to.

http://i.imgur.com/d9zvuCS.jpg

[CoriW]

I am unable to get any externally ignited engine to fire up on launch. Whether KW rocketry or stock, no amount of staging will get them to light

What am I doing wrong here? I am unable to surface attach the launch clamps to any engine, and they all need to attack to the bottom of the tank that the engine is attached to.

http://i.imgur.com/d9zvuCS.jpg

Yeah I had this issue as well, I fixed it by going into the Stock config file and changing the external launch clamp's range from 0.1 to 10.

[HoneyFox]

Hey HoneyFox, just wanted to let you know that I was messing about with the RLA Stockalike mod and found that your config for it doesn't support all the engines. It's missing the MPR-1 Monopropellent Engine, Rockomax "Spinnaker" Liquid Engine, and LV-T5 Liquid Fuel Engine.

I may have missed some of these. Guess i might be using some earlier version...

Anyway, I've pushed these config files onto GitHub. You can fork it and submit your edit.

Edited December 22, 2013 by HoneyFox

[HoneyFox]

Why not? Hypergol cartridges are used for many kerolox engines that need to be restarted in flight. For hypergolic engines, it should use a bit of fuel for ignition, but for all others, something else is needed. ElectricCharge or Hypergol would fill that role well.

Also, would it be possible to make this compatible with ModuleEnginesFX? This will probably be used for all the engines in the future, it allows (AFAIK) engine particle effect manipulation.

And yes, I want the ignitor count to be tweakable. There must be a way of adjusting the part's weight to match, too. It's kind of needed for the feature to make sense.

Do you know what types exactly the hypergolic fuel is? I'd love to use exact resource type instead of something that sounds too generic, especially under MFS+RealFuel environment.

Compatible to ModuleEnginesFX shouldn't be too hard if it's implementation is same as ModuleEngines in the engine part. but it will take some time to update.

One question i wonder is if it's possible that one part has both ModuleEngines & ModuleEnginesFX modules. that might cause some trouble of identifying engine modules correctly.

Talking about ignitor count as a tweakable, i need to find proper moments to increase/decrease part's dry mass. For the mass, there should be some kind of base mass so the total mass for ignitor will be baseMass + massPerIgnitor * ignitorCount. Though i don't know how it is in RL. Do you have any advice?

[HoneyFox]

@Lalwcat, @CoriW

Sorry about that, it was a mistake made by me when I was writing the surf-attach detection logic for external ignitors.

I set that ignitorRange to 0.1 for testing convenience so that the range check will always fail, while surf-attach logic can override that.

And i forgot to undo the value before i made the package.

Edited December 22, 2013 by HoneyFox

[Guest]

Do you know what types exactly the hypergolic fuel is? I'd love to use exact resource type instead of something that sounds too generic, especially under MFS+RealFuel environment.

UDMH is used in that capacity, dunno about the oxidizer, but could be N2O4.

As for base mass, I dunno. Probably something small, like 50kg or so per restart for a Mainsail-size engine. Probably should depend on the engine size, and on the number of chambers. More chambers-more ignitors needed. I have no data, so just try to make it balanced.

[HoneyFox]

UDMH is used in that capacity, dunno about the oxidizer, but could be N2O4.

As for base mass, I dunno. Probably something small, like 50kg or so per restart for a Mainsail-size engine. Probably should depend on the engine size, and on the number of chambers. More chambers-more ignitors needed. I have no data, so just try to make it balanced.

Thanks. I thought that could be UDMH or HTP... so then if MFS could apply these resources onto the engine, we just need a small tank to add these resources into to make it work.

For the ignitor mass, 50kg is a good reference, i will make that balanced.

[CoriW]

I may have missed some of these. Guess i might be using some earlier version...

Anyway, I've pushed these config files onto GitHub. You can fork it and submit your edit.

Not really sure how to use GitHub, so here's the config file.

Download

[Lalwcat]

@Lalwcat, @CoriW

Sorry about that, it was a mistake made by me when I was writing the surf-attach detection logic for external ignitors.

I set that ignitorRange to 0.1 for testing convenience so that the range check will always fail, while surf-attach logic can override that.

And i forgot to undo the value before i made the package.

If I lost a finger every time I accidentally released a build or pushed to the repo a file with a debug setting still enabled, I wouldn't be able to code anymore.

EDIT:

So, i tried tweaking the FASA Gemini Engine and Fuel Pack via mod manager to have ignitions (tried doing it to all FASA engines, really).

Here is what I have for module manager:

@PART[FASAGeminiEngineFuel2]
{
    RESOURCE
    {
        name = HypergolicFluid
        amount = 8
        maxAmount = 8
    }
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleEngineIgnitor
        ignitionsAvailable = 32
        autoIgnitionTemperature = 800
        ignitorType = Internal_Large
        IGNITOR_RESOURCE
        {
            name = HypergolicFluid
            amount = 0.4
            // 20 Ignitions (Using HypergolicFluid)
        }
    }
}

However in space, the engine has "Ignitions: Internal_Large - Infinite"

I probably bunged it up somewhere, but I'm not seeing it. To get values I basically just grabbed the settings from similar engines from stock and KW rocketry.

Strangely enough, the other Gemini vehicle I launched has "Internal_Large - 32/32". Guess this one piece is just bugged somehow.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Lalwcat

[HoneyFox]

Strangely enough, the other Gemini vehicle I launched has "Internal_Large - 32/32". Guess this one piece is just bugged somehow.

Are you designing vehicle in the progress of your ModularManager config editing? That may cause some persistence issue (I mean, some values are stored into .craft file so even if you edit the config later, that old value will still be there). Perhaps you can try to remove the engine from that bugged vehicle and reinstall the engine again? plus, you can pre-check the number of ignitors from the part's detailed info box by right clicking on that part's icon.

[Lalwcat]

Are you designing vehicle in the progress of your ModularManager config editing? That may cause some persistence issue (I mean, some values are stored into .craft file so even if you edit the config later, that old value will still be there). Perhaps you can try to remove the engine from that bugged vehicle and reinstall the engine again? plus, you can pre-check the number of ignitors from the part's detailed info box by right clicking on that part's icon.

I get the feeling it must have been some persistance issue. The craft that had infinite was already in orbit when I added the ModuleManager config. The craft that was 32/32 was a new launch. If I go and re-launch the problematic craft, it's also at 32/32. Seems to be working fine now

Also, quick question on the subject of fuel stability for craft with orbital engines that may need to make multiple adjustments over time... is RCS capable of stabilizing the fuel in the tank? My initial thought is just to have a bunch of pairs of ullage engines but that seems a bit silly. If I just thrust forward with RCS for some time, will that stabilize the fuel enough to let me ignite?

[HoneyFox]

I get the feeling it must have been some persistance issue. The craft that had infinite was already in orbit when I added the ModuleManager config. The craft that was 32/32 was a new launch. If I go and re-launch the problematic craft, it's also at 32/32. Seems to be working fine now

Also, quick question on the subject of fuel stability for craft with orbital engines that may need to make multiple adjustments over time... is RCS capable of stabilizing the fuel in the tank? My initial thought is just to have a bunch of pairs of ullage engines but that seems a bit silly. If I just thrust forward with RCS for some time, will that stabilize the fuel enough to let me ignite?

Should work. it may take you 5~20 seconds to stabilize the fuel depending on the acceleration provided by your onboard RCS thrusters,

The ullage simulation is based on acceleration and rotation rates. So either you get acceleration by main engine/ullage engine/RCS thrusters/some other guy pushing your vessel brutally/landed on the ground/aero drag during reentry (make sure you're heading towards the correct direction or it will push fuel to the upper side of the tank instead)... you'll get the ullage effect

And that also gives you a hint: when you stage your rocket during ascend through thick atmosphere, make sure to ignite the upper stage soon after you lower stage burns out, otherwise the air drag will generate negative acceleration and you may not be able to ignite several seconds later.

Edited December 23, 2013 by HoneyFox

[Tyrador]

It seems there is no fuel container with which I can replenish engine's internal ignitor supply, it gives me message "no nearby ignitor unit'. How can start the engine without it? Thanks!

[HoneyFox]

It seems there is no fuel container with which I can replenish engine's internal ignitor supply, it gives me message "no nearby ignitor unit'. How can start the engine without it? Thanks!

Oh, i didn't add the toolbox (with replaceable ignitors inside) part into my package. because that's KAS's cargo box model...

But you can make your own by picking a model and add two modules to it: KAS grab module which allows you to grab it on EVA's back, and the EngineIgnitorUnit module which allows you to replenish the ignitor count.

And i don't know if anyone can help me to make such a model: a small toolbox that can be hand-held/carried on the back, may look similar to KAS's cargo box but with some stripes of yellow & black to indicate its engineering purpose.

[Tyrador]

HoneyFox, take a look at a new Toolbox I've created for your mod, plus Inline Ullage Tank. I have not tweaked part parameters well, so you can finish them and add to your mod.

Link to pics: https://www.dropbox.com/sc/py6na2w19pr5zsd/-qwKtEKihf

Download: http://www.dropbox.com/s/z2zd7akiy2x9ohp/Toolbox%2BUllage%20Tank.rar

What are your thoughts on them?

Edited December 25, 2013 by Tyrador

[HoneyFox]

HoneyFox, take a look at a new Toolbox I've created for your mod, plus Inline Ullage Tank. I have not tweaked part parameters well, so you can finish them and add to your mod.

Toolbox:

https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/1.jpg?w=AADcoRXa9i6EzScKaLPevAjAa2el8vE0eoxSA3AKnYX_pw

Inline Ullage Tank:

https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/2.jpg?w=AACf7zDIFblNADmcrm9ap8N9Zl99FEBzrBub6umhHeIvtQ

Download: http://www.dropbox.com/s/z2zd7akiy2x9ohp/Toolbox%2BUllage%20Tank.rar

What are your thoughts on them?

Uh, i cannot see the pictures... though i've logged onto dropbox it still gives me an Error (403) with message: "It seems you don't belong here! You should probably sign in. Check out our Help Center and forums for help, or head back to home."

For the part pack, i need to wait until i can get access to KSP. (at work right now)

[Tyrador]

Uh, i cannot see the pictures... though i've logged onto dropbox it still gives me an Error (403) with message: "It seems you don't belong here! You should probably sign in. Check out our Help Center and forums for help, or head back to home."

For the part pack, i need to wait until i can get access to KSP. (at work right now)

I've updated the link, should work now.

[HoneyFox]

I've updated the link, should work now.

haven't tested in the game, but just had a glance at the textures and Wow! that's so beautiful. Let me try it immediately!