Modular Fuel System Continued v3.3 (OBSOLETE)

[Starwaster]

Does this modify the Tiberdyne Shuttle System parts?

No. Don't think so, it would need some config files written up for it; Not sure if anyone who contributes uses that parts pack.

[rhoark]

Squad is talking about tweakables and secondary fuels now. Wish they'd lay out the specifics so we'd know how to prepare.

[Razorcane]

Is it possible to make UDMH a separate fuel? Since it's used in hypergolic rocket engines with N2O4, it would be useful for rocket launches. Now I know that monopropellant is considered UDMH, but when using it as rocket fuel, it drains from all stages, instead of just the one, so it's quite a problem when launching a rocket. Of course if there is a way to prevent monopropellant from being crossfed, that would be fine too.

[gm537]

Is it possible to make UDMH a separate fuel? Since it's used in hypergolic rocket engines with N2O4, it would be useful for rocket launches. Now I know that monopropellant is considered UDMH, but when using it as rocket fuel, it drains from all stages, instead of just the one, so it's quite a problem when launching a rocket. Of course if there is a way to prevent monopropellant from being crossfed, that would be fine too.

So if you just want to make monoprop like a standard fuel you should be able to go into the RealFuels/Resources folder and open the ResourcesFuel.cfg and in the monoprop definition section add the line: "@flowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH" that will cause the monoprop to act like a normal fuel. The problem may be that I don't know how that will affect actual RCS use, see currently RCS isn't "crossfeeding" it is being drawn equally from all tanks in the craft regardless of location or even if crossfeed is possible. Alternatively you can add this to a new cfg document (or at the end of the existing aforementioned resources one):

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
  name = UDMH
  density = 0.004
  flowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH
  transfer = PUMP
}

That will create a new resource called UDMH which you can then burn in standard rockets to your heart's content without changing how Monoprop works. That's probably what I would do.

[gm537]

Okay guys I am back with another fun question which is I am trying to make a configurable jet engine from the standard jet engine in KSP. I've got it mostly figured out but the atmosphere curve isn't working quite right. Basically I have it holding a fairly high Isp through 0.2atm but in game it is just a 'linear' drop from sea level to vacuum. I suspect it's related to trying to use tech levels which specify SL and Vac isp multiplier.

At the top of the new engine config I do:

		@atmosphereCurve
		{
		 @key,0 = 0 1250
		 @key,1 = 0.2 2050
		 @key,2 = 1 2400 
		}

And then in the specific config for LiquidFuel I do:

			atmosphereCurve
			{
		 		key = 0 1250
		 		key = 0.2 2050
		 		key = 1 2400 
			}
			velocityCurve
			{
				key = 900 0 0 0
				key = 750 0.8 0 0
				key = 0 1 0 0
			}
			IspSL = 1.2
			IspV = 1.25

And finally I have modified Real settings to include:

ENGINETYPE
  {
   name = J
   TLISP0
   {
    key = 0 1000
    key = 0.2 1500
    key = 1 2000
   }
   TLTWR0 = 35
   TLISP1
   {
    key = 0 1000
    key = 0.2 1500
    key = 1 2000
   }
   TLTWR1 = 43
   TLISP2
   {
    key = 0 1020
    key = 0.2 1530
    key = 1 2040
   }
   TLTWR2 = 54
   TLISP3
   {
    key = 0 1040
    key = 0.2 1561
    key = 1 2081
   }
   TLTWR3 = 63
   TLISP4
   {
    key = 0 1061
    key = 0.2 1592
    key = 1 2122
   }
   TLTWR4 = 69
   TLISP5
   {
    key = 0 1082
    key = 0.2 1624
    key = 1 2165
   }
   TLTWR5 = 73
   TLISP6
   {
    key = 0 1104
    key = 0.2 1656
    key = 1 2208
   }
   TLTWR6 = 76
   TLISP7
   {
    key = 0 1126
    key = 0.2 1689
    key = 1 2252
   }
   TLTWR7 = 79
  }

The problem is that the 'middle' key doesn't seem to be doing anything. So I am wondering what you guys thoughts are or if you've seen / tried to do this before? I've also double checked my braces this time.

Also do you know if it's accurate for a Jet engine's thrust to scale off Isp? And would there be a way to make SL Isp be used as the base for thrust rather than Vac's?

[NathanKell]

Apologies, I don't yet support non-twin-key atmo curves in the TechLevel system.* In the next major release, I plan to do so, and to support per-engine techlevel data. But RSS is taking up all my time; I'm just going to push 3.1 with some fixes and improved ST support shortly.

*So you need to delete IspSL and IspV, and it will use the atmo curve you specify in the CONFIG. Also don't specify any techlevel stuff in the main MEC module. No techlevels, but you can have multiple configurations.

I don't offhand recall whether it's accurate that thrust scales; I'll add a variable to disable it per engine.

Edited November 7, 2013 by NathanKell

[gm537]

Apologies, I don't yet support non-twin-key atmo curves in the TechLevel system.* In the next major release, I plan to do so, and to support per-engine techlevel data. But RSS is taking up all my time; I'm just going to push 3.1 with some fixes and improved ST support shortly.

*So you need to delete IspSL and IspV, and it will use the atmo curve you specify in the CONFIG. Also don't specify any techlevel stuff in the main MEC module. No techlevels, but you can have multiple configurations.

I don't offhand recall whether it's accurate that thrust scales; I'll add a variable to disable it per engine.

Okay thanks! That's pretty much what I figured.

[asmi]

Please keep in mind that FloatCurve can use 4-floats keys (two additional values being in- and out-tangents)

[NathanKell]

Oh, absolutely. The original techlevels just evaluates at 0 and 1 atmosphere, multiplies, and creates a new curve. The new one actually saves the curve to a node, lerps the multipliers into the isps for all k/v pairs, and reloads the curve; that leaves tangents untouched. Might get slightly undesired results since I really don't want to try recomputing tangents--but if the multipliers are relatively constant, it shouldn't be a big deal IIRC.

[dimovski]

I was kinda absent... but in the meantime I managed to get some good info on N-III and N-II... so thats something... I think I should be done with Soviet pack at the weekend (might take a bit longer if I dont find a lot of info on Soyuz capsule propellant mass etc.... btw the atlernate fuel was N2O4 with Kerosene... 315seconds vacuum Isp)

[Miller]

I am experiencing a weird bug which doesn't allow me to select any parts in the action group tab. This MIGHT be happening after i return to the VAB from a flight.

[AbeS]

Are you using DREc? I THINK this happens when DREc destroys your vessel and you revert to VAB, I'm not sure though, but I have experienced that bug too

[Miller]

Are you using DREc? I THINK this happens when DREc destroys your vessel and you revert to VAB, I'm not sure though, but I have experienced that bug too

This is highly possible. I had this issue after my probe burnt up.

[Starwaster]

I am experiencing a weird bug which doesn't allow me to select any parts in the action group tab. This MIGHT be happening after i return to the VAB from a flight.

what does the debug screen say? (or output_log.txt)

[Miller]

what does the debug screen say? (or output_log.txt)

I am new to the debug screen. Are the messages on the top the most recent ones? I am having a problem as they scroll through very fast.

[Starwaster]

I am new to the debug screen. Are the messages on the top the most recent ones? I am having a problem as they scroll through very fast.

Bottom is most recent and if they're too fast to read then that's a bad sign. Probably they are null object errors.

In your install directory, look for a folder called ksp_data and find the file named output_log.txt in there. If you have a dropbox, put that file there and tell us the link. If you're not able to do that then paste just a part of it that has the errors. (go in vab, long enough for the errors to start then exit the game and grab the errors from the end)

If you dont have that file at all (Mac or Linux) then get the ksp.log from the install directory but it's not as informative as an output_log.txt is

[Miller]

Here you go : https://www.dropbox.com/s/yrryyuscesbbti9/output_log.txt .

[Starwaster]

Nathan, I've been doing some experiments involving adding the thermometer module directly to radiators and fuel tanks (insert some KSP science joke about research values here)

I need to play with it more but it's looking like it's a bad idea to actually increase the radiator temperature. It might be realistic but it's looking like it's doing bad things to tank temperature because of KSP's wonky heat system.

On a big tank (KWR 3.75, the longest one) I stuck 24 radiators and played with them a bit in action groups so I can control how many are active. They rapidly accumulate enough heat to counteract the cooling effects. KSP wants to transfer that heat right back to the tank and it can do it faster than MFT can move it out again.

just to give you an idea of just how screwed up KSP's model is: temperatures fluctuate wildly in orbit around a planet. the midnight position is worst because it suddenly and rapidly heats everything up. Noon actually gets pretty cold but only briefly.

some of the radiators btw get up into the 200K range and they're all fighting to dump that back into the tanks.

[Chimer4]

Just a quick question. I seem to remember back on the original thread of this, chestburster (I think) was working on setting it up so that thrust changed with atmospheric pressure, not ISP. Is this something that will/has been implemented in this version? Could be a good addition to real mode if it is

[Chestburster]

I'm just doing the config stuff. Nathan is handling the code. But yes, the thrust correction is implemented and working for our currently supported engines.

[Chimer4]

I'm just doing the config stuff. Nathan is handling the code. But yes, the thrust correction is implemented and working for our currently supported engines.

Ah ok, thAts good to know. Thanks

[Guest]

I've got a problem. Launch clamp fuelling towers don't seem to work. I'm using plenty of mods (see Realism Overhaul thread and my Soyuz plugin list), but the only one that also modifies the clamps is Ioncross Crew Support. Could anyone check this combination?

[Starwaster]

I've got a problem. Launch clamp fuelling towers don't seem to work. I'm using plenty of mods (see Realism Overhaul thread and my Soyuz plugin list), but the only one that also modifies the clamps is Ioncross Crew Support. Could anyone check this combination?

I can, I'll post in an hour or so.

[asmi]

Found a bug - if you surface-attach fuel tanks (I used Stretchy tanks) to existing tank (that is in stack), you can't change any fuel or anything else in those surface-attached tanks.

[NathanKell]

Huh. I'll check it out. Guess v3.1 is delayed again. :\

Starwaster: I don't have IonCross handy; did it replicate for you?