Modular Fuel System Continued v3.3 (OBSOLETE)

[NathanKell]

Dragon: I'll add nitric acid (and amine, yes? ). I had trouble finding a density for synthin, but when I looked under syntin I finally found one: 0.851 g/cc. Does that sound right? IIRC it's super-chilled, so should the density be even higher?

For MFS v4 I'm reworking how Isps work, so those should be easier to add.

SRFirefox: At the moment tank mass tries to replicate stage mass (including structure etc). Dragon01 requested balloon tanks, which should work better. Also, there's an issue with cryogenic tank mass (sorry). It's a bit high. (tank dry weight is ~2.8% gross, whereas fraction for non-cryo kerolox is 2.3%). It'll be fixed. Active cooling (rather than thermal fins) is a good suggestion.

CheesySquid279, as others have said you're free to do what you like. But since this mod gets updated once a week or so at this point, often fixing some critical bugs, (a) do you really want to take on updating your mod pack that constantly and ( do you really want the headache of supporting these mods yourself? Because, since I can't control what version of MFS someone who downloads your pack is using, support would be a nightmare that I really don't think I want to take on. :]

If you do want to keep the pack constantly updated, and handle/offer-support-for interaction between all the mods, then it sounds like a good idea. But if you're just planning to zip together a bunch of cool mods...you're really not adding any value, I don't think, that couldn't be gotten from a big thread with links.

[Malsheck]

Thanks for the config Malsheck, didn't notice SSE was updated and does now include tanks.

Not a problem. Glad I could help. Btw, if you haven't tried that mod out yet I would highly recommend it. It makes shuttle design so much easier and more realistic. Not to mention a lot more fun. I'll see about doing a couple of launches and maybe post some pics if I can remember my imgr login.

[jpinard]

Oh yeah, if you're not using LH2/LOX, you'll have to reconfigure your tanks. We no longer support LF/Oxidizer for engines (replaced with LF/Lox, like real life; the third mixture is hypergolic NTO/MMH), and the ratio for LF/Lox changed slightly. LH2/Lox ratio didn't change, although density changed ever so slightly for both.

This is so incredible

[Guest]

Dragon: I'll add nitric acid (and amine, yes? ). I had trouble finding a density for synthin, but when I looked under syntin I finally found one: 0.851 g/cc. Does that sound right? IIRC it's super-chilled, so should the density be even higher?

For MFS v4 I'm reworking how Isps work, so those should be easier to add.

That's really nice. I don't think density should be much higher, it's kerosene afterall. What you found sounds about right, it's indeed mildly cryogenic. Nice about amine, though I don't think that anything besides X-15 used it. Also, you could think about N2O, I've had success with the stretchy hybrid, so it could come in handy for Space Ship One/Two engines. Also, keep in mind which nitric acid you're going to put in. I think IRFNA would be the best. It was used in Agena and Kosmos 3M, Scud and many others (I think Luna 17 used this one, too).

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

Anyone up for adding ClF3 as an ox option? (And causing a complex-wide evacuation the moment Jeb is reported as in the same building as a tank of the stuff?)

The writeup on it sounds SO much like something Kerbals would say about it.

"It is, of course, extremely toxic, but that's the least of the problem. It is hypergolic with every known fuel, and so rapidly hypergolic that no ignition delay has ever been measured. It is also hypergolic with such things as cloth, wood, and test engineers, not to mention asbestos, sand, and water  with which it reacts explosively. It can be kept in some of the ordinary structural metals  steel, copper, aluminum, etc.  because of the formation of a thin film of insoluble metal fluoride which protects the bulk of the metal, just as the invisible coat of oxide on aluminum keeps it from burning up in the atmosphere. If, however, this coat is melted or scrubbed off, and has no chance to reform, the operator is confronted with the problem of coping with a metal-fluorine fire. For dealing with this situation, I have always recommended a good pair of running shoes."

- John D. Clark

[NathanKell]

Vostok used RFNA / Amine, IIRC. That's what I thought you were going for.

[Frederf]

Is it possible to add a "cryogenic" tick box for fuel tanks that would increase the dry mass ratio as a trade off? I'd like to use more cryo fuels the the selection of tanks is rather limited.

[Malsheck]

Is it possible to add a "cryogenic" tick box for fuel tanks that would increase the dry mass ratio as a trade off? I'd like to use more cryo fuels the the selection of tanks is rather limited.

Try looking here at the Space Shuttle Engines mod They got a good selection of them now. In fact, I'm having a little too much fun with them atm. Thanks again NathanKell and ChestBurster for making this possible:

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[NathanKell]

Honestly I haven't used a normal tank in months; everything now is stretchy tanks (and there's a normal and a cryo version).

[Chestburster]

Same here. They are way more flexible than normal tanks (and they will get even better when the width and hight display is added ;-) ). Saves so much RAM to get even more engines and other gizzmos!

[SRFirefox]

In my explorations of the Real Solar System mod, I've found that the stock NERVA engines appear to burn through their nuclear fuel in a little over a year and the KSPX NERVA seems like it takes only a few weeks while not in use. Needless to say, this makes them useless for even a jaunt out to Duna-Mars or Eve-Venus let alone trying to haul large payloads to Moho-Mercury or out past the asteroid belt. When I'm more awake, I'll look at playing with the config files to see if I can fix it.

[NathanKell]

Decrease the (magnitude of the) values in the module generators (i.e. add some more zeroes) .

Thanks for the catch!

[HoneyFox]

Same here. They are way more flexible than normal tanks (and they will get even better when the width and hight display is added ;-) ). Saves so much RAM to get even more engines and other gizzmos!

Now all we need is - procedural engines!!!

Well, at least some generic engines that can rescale in VAB just like those fuel tanks and their Isp/MaxThrust should be adjusted as well. The bigger the engines, the bigger the maxThrust and slightly lower Isp...

After that, all main parts of rockets are rescale-able in VAB and can bring much more possibilities and reduce lots of RAM usage.

Edited November 14, 2013 by HoneyFox

[dadong]

I've been using this with the interstellar mod recently and I noticed an issue with xenon volumes. By default a .625m xenon tank contains 700 units of xenon gas while a normal 1.25m fl-t100 can only fit 100 units of xenon despite having 4 times the volume.

Is there a way to fix this or is it done on purpose?

[XNerd_Bomber]

I cannot, or the life of me, figure out how to use this mod.

[Chestburster]

Go to the action group editor and select a tank or engine to adjust them.

[Guest]

Vostok used RFNA / Amine, IIRC. That's what I thought you were going for.

Vostok used N2O/Amine for RCS. The rocket was kerolox, like all R7s. I guess it'd be a good use for N2O, besides hybrids.

[NeilC]

Can you elaborate a bit on the difference between cryo tanks and normal tanks?

What's the difference in implementation?

Are they useful only for LH2/LO2, or will they work for any fuel regardless of making sense?

Do I need to use thermal fins with them? What's the boiloff rate (if there is one)?

[Milkshakefiend]

Every time I install this, I seem to get problems changing the fuels in tanks - it'll list each fuel twice, and if for example I click the buttons to remove all tanks, then click H2/LOX, I end up with only H2. I managed to fix this a long time ago but can't seem to remember how. I'm assuming it's a PEBKAC issue - can someone point me to what I'm doing wrong?

EDIT: Problem only occurs when trying to use the RealFuels variant. Something is causing havok with it.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Milkshakefiend

[Chestburster]

That means you have duplicated configs lying around.

[Milkshakefiend]

I figured it was something like that. I deduced the best course of action was to nuke the entire site from orbit. So that's what I did. works fine now!

[rpayne88]

How do I configure the tanks? I can't find any icon or gui to change the fuel/ oxidizer ratio or the type of fuel in the tank.

[Chestburster]

Go to the action group editor and select a tank or engine to adjust them.

I think Nathan should put some instructions on the first post ^^

[rpayne88]

Now I have another problem. It seems Kerbals are incapable of loading liquid fuel.

[FanaticalFighter]

Now all we need is - procedural engines!!!

Well, at least some generic engines that can rescale in VAB just like those fuel tanks and their Isp/MaxThrust should be adjusted as well. The bigger the engines, the bigger the maxThrust and slightly lower Isp...

After that, all main parts of rockets are rescale-able in VAB and can bring much more possibilities and reduce lots of RAM usage.

This. IRL, you're not limited to the same engine. Even if you do use the same engine, they can perform very differently. E.G., the Falcon 9 uses Merlin engines on both the lower stage and the upper stage, but the lower ones perform excellently in atmosphere with tons of thrust while the upper one is very fuel efficient. Also, with the Super-Stretchy tanks, we're not limited to the common feul tank types, we can stretch tanks to any diameter we want (most of my rockets now use SuperStretchy tanks for better configurations of engine clusters).