[0.90]Kerbal Isp Difficulty Scaler v1.4.2; 12/16/14

[Romby]

Question. How does this mod work with cost. Since you need extra big stages to leave kerbin is it at all posible to play a carrer mode and not end up ruined with this mod?

Edited July 21, 2014 by Romby

[guitarxe]

Will this still work with 0.23.5?

[guitarxe]

I tried with 0.23.5 and nothing comes up related to the mod (and no errors during loading), so the latest version just simply doesn't work with it.

Does anyone have a link to v1.3.3?

[ThreePounds]

Does this mod affect Jet-Engines as those added by B9? I get insane amounts of thrust when using them in conjuncture with this mod on 0.24 32bit windows installs.

[KerbMav]

Question. How does this mod work with cost. Since you need extra big stages to leave kerbin is it at all posible to play a carrer mode and not end up ruined with this mod?

The impact really is not that big in this regard, as Kerbin's atmosphere is not really big/high and you are saving on fuel with FAR/NEAR.

[Romby]

The impact really is not that big in this regard, as Kerbin's atmosphere is not really big/high and you are saving on fuel with FAR/NEAR.

I am playing games with the mod right now. Will say it is kinda hard. I play with the FAR to real adjusted setting. With that you have to build big/expensive rockets just to reach orbit and forget doing it with only first tech node unlocked. So you are doing more missions to collect science and each mission is more expensive. But it is manageable if you play right (but I still think I'll change the setting fra FAR to real 0,45 to something like 0,6-0,65

[KerbMav]

Ah OK, I only use the thrust correction, so I only get lower TWR on the pad - I mainly use it for realism regarding lower thrust in atmosphere instead of higher fuel usage like it is in stock KSP.

[aikixd]

I've found a bug. Create a ship with an engine, fuel tank, Engineer or Mechjeb and a command pod of course. The Isp now shows original Isp * Scale. Now detach the engine and put it near the ship, not connected. Copy it with alt+click and attach to the ship. The Isp will now be Isp * Scale^2.

[Motokid600]

How does this mod effect crafts such as Denny's LEM? Will I not be able to get to Munar orbit now with it? Or what about any purpose built craft with a set amount of fuel? Like Denny's or Frizzank's Saturn V..

Edited July 28, 2014 by Motokid600

[somnambulist]

How does this mod effect crafts such as Denny's LEM? Will I not be able to get to Munar orbit now with it? Or what about any purpose built craft with a set amount of fuel? Like Denny's or Frizzank's Saturn V..

You can configure KIDS to leave vacuum ISP unaffected.

[Motokid600]

Ah, I see. Thank you. But what about mod crafts?

Edit: Now that I realized most if not all mod crafts are tuned to stock so they usually have too much fuel when using FAR.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Motokid600

[KerbMav]

I've found a bug. Create a ship with an engine, fuel tank, Engineer or Mechjeb and a command pod of course. The Isp now shows original Isp * Scale. Now detach the engine and put it near the ship, not connected. Copy it with alt+click and attach to the ship. The Isp will now be Isp * Scale^2.

Does this error persist when moving to the launchpad?

[aikixd]

Does this error persist when moving to the launchpad?

Yeah. I dropped a few rockets like that. I also noticed that the same happens when you take radially attached engines, or any part that engine is connected to and change the number of radial attaches. I use Editor Extensions, it might introduce new parts into the scene, when attaching radial parts. It all makes sense, though. When a part is introduced into the scene, its Isp is multiplied by the scale. Affected parts need a flag that they were already edited.

I also had problems with solid boosters, not complying to thrust limit from VAB. I don't think it's related to KIDS, just a notice for may be it is.

[WololoW]

I didnt want to read this post by post, but I have a question.

If I am using NEAR, and set it to the FAR to Stock Universal setting while getting to LKO, and then swap to normal KSP for interplanetary transfers/bodies without atmospehere, it will keep all the Delta V maps accurate?

[somnambulist]

If I am using NEAR, and set it to the FAR to Stock Universal setting while getting to LKO, and then swap to normal KSP for interplanetary transfers/bodies without atmospehere, it will keep all the Delta V maps accurate?

There's already a preset that does exactly that, "FAR to Stock KSP, Atmosphere Only". Does what it says on the tin. No manual switching required.

[Sternface]

I didnt want to read this post by post, but I have a question.

If I am using NEAR, and set it to the FAR to Stock Universal setting while getting to LKO, and then swap to normal KSP for interplanetary transfers/bodies without atmospehere, it will keep all the Delta V maps accurate?

There's already a preset that does exactly that, "FAR to Stock KSP, Atmosphere Only". Does what it says on the tin. No manual switching required.

If I am not mistaken, the ISP settings in KIDS should have zero effect on the stock required ÃŽâ€V for a particular maneuver. Rather than altering the ÃŽâ€V itself, KIDS simulates this by raising the required amount of fuel needed to attain a given change in velocity (via lower ISP.)

So while you will need more fuel to execute a given change in velocity, the stock ÃŽâ€V map will remain unchanged - and therefore accurate.

P.S. Use whatever setting you want - the ÃŽâ€V map will remain the same. You will just need more fuel, and possibly a better mass ratio.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Sternface

[somnambulist]

So while you will need more fuel to execute a given change in velocity, the stock ÃŽâ€V map will remain unchanged - and therefore accurate.

You sir are 100% correct. But like you said people could get hit with unexpected dV shortages if using craft designed without the nerfed ISP.

[Motokid600]

The difference between this and stock FAR is.. significant. So much so that it poses a problem for modded pre-built rockets. Which brings me to my question. Now I've only tested one, but I fear the results will carry over to other craft.

Denny's Proton .. Does not even come close to getting to orbit. With MIR onboard the best I could do was around 2400 Dv.

So this concerns me.. what does this mean for Bobcats rockets? Denny's SV. All of Frizzank's rockets.. every pre built rocket. Are they all rendered useless with KIDS?

[Sternface]

The difference between this and stock FAR is.. significant. So much so that it poses a problem for modded pre-built rockets. Which brings me to my question. Now I've only tested one, but I fear the results will carry over to other craft.

Denny's Proton .. Does not even come close to getting to orbit. With MIR onboard the best I could do was around 2400 Dv.

So this concerns me.. what does this mean for Bobcats rockets? Denny's SV. All of Frizzank's rockets.. every pre built rocket. Are they all rendered useless with KIDS?

The entire point of KIDS, IMHO, is to require the player to build rockets that closer resemble those needed to deal with Earth's much larger mass and radius - or to just make things harder (or to compensate for FAR to bring it closer to stock).

In other words, the point of this mod *is* to render craft built for vanilla ISPs useless without heavy redesign.

Why install a mod whose primary function does what concerns you? If you enjoy the added difficulty/complexity, then you are probably going to have to ditch crafts designed for vanilla ISPs if you want to go beyond suborbital.

[Motokid600]

Well the thing is these mod crafts are all designed around the stock aero. Meaning no FAR. So 4500Dv to orbit .. with FAR these mod crafts have too much fuel. Mercury Redstone damn near makes it to orbit.. So you install KIDS.

I was hoping all the extra fuel would be utilized now. Well it is.. but now it's no we're near enough. So ignoring mod crafts for the moment. I find that just to get a 3man pod into orbit takes a rocket so large that if I were to scale it up to 1:1 it would be larger then any real life rocket. So I gotta experiment with the isp multiplier. Right now I have it set to .65. Which is WAY more then the original config. So that helps with custom builds. Now as for mod crafts.. idk. Denny's Proton can make it to orbit, but it cannot carry a MIR segment. ( as it should ). And this concerns me because, well... FASA. The Saturn V I made last night limps to orbit and it's almost twice the size of Frizzanks Saturn V.. and it looks kinda ridiculous.

So what I want to know is.. Those using KIDS what do you do to use pre-built crafts? ( I couldn't think of an appropriate word to save my life ) I cannot even imagine the .35 unadjusted setting.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Motokid600

[undercoveryankee]

With the atmosphere-only setting, you take a really steep penalty at sea level, recovering to normal performance by zero pressure. The more fuel you can get to high altitude, the better you'll do. A more stock-like ascent profile (long vertical ascent before turning, TWR a little over 2) may do better under those conditions than a normal FAR ascent profile.

[ferram4]

@Motokid600: If you're using the Real-Life settings, those are ways to increase the mass of the rocket needed to real-life scales, not to stock scales. Since all the mod parts are ~64% the size of real life stuff, of course they're going to be too small; they are! You want FAR-to-stock, either universal or atmo-only. I'd advise universal, just because atmo-only is kind weird, I only added that because I knew people would want it to not affect their exo-atmospheric shenanigans.

So, progress report: Working on proper RF integration, found some bugs on the RF side the NathanKell was kind enough to fix. Overall, looks good. Fixed the issue with flat Isp curves and extend curve to 0 causing problems. I'll end up adding some more presets for RSS-users, so they can ease into using RSS, and then I'll release a new version.

[juanml82]

With the atmosphere-only setting, you take a really steep penalty at sea level, recovering to normal performance by zero pressure. The more fuel you can get to high altitude, the better you'll do. A more stock-like ascent profile (long vertical ascent before turning, TWR a little over 2) may do better under those conditions than a normal FAR ascent profile.

And, using Far to Stock atmosphere, with planes, which expend a longer time in the, I understand, heavier atmosphere?

[Motokid600]

Thanks for that explanation Ferram. As far as thrust goes. In stock if you leave the pad with a 1.5 TWR does it remain static as opposed to dynamic with KIDS? Because I think I gotta change the way my rockets ascend. Would you say that KIDS makes it ao you have to throttle back as speed increases?

[TeeGee]

Does this mod require FAR to work?

I am looking for a setting that has realistic isp, aerodynamics etc. but has been kerbalized. Basically, downgrade the tech proportionally to humans to compensate for the smaller planet.