Realism Overhaul

[Guest]

Note, in comparison, it can sometimes come out. So we need an ATV (and perhaps an ADTA) to make sure everything looks allright.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Guest

[Guest]

It turns out that removing MM-added fields doesn't work as well as it should. So I have a proposition: Since you'll be undoing the Great Rescale anyway, the realistic Titan engines will be usable with the other rockets. You could give them a kerolox config (Titan I used that) and I think that'll be enough. It'd be one less config than they have now, but I don't think we're that ​short on good engines. You could throw in tech level support, too, since the engines were upgraded with every major Titan revision.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Guest

[NathanKell]

For removing MM fields you need to (a) be doing your changes as :Final (if they were adding by MM; if they're in the part, no need) and ( use this syntax:

for values: !valuename

for nodes: !NODENAME {}

See, otherwise MM will think it's a value called NODENAME

I'm doing them as 3m rather than 3.05m, that's why I asked about leaving the 3.05m ones as separate parts.

And their real performance doesn't quite fit the MFS TL system.* So I'd still like to do separate parts, even if the Real-Titan is 3m. I will give them the -3, -5, and -11 configs for each (Titan I, II, and III/IV).

* the -3 is about TL 1.5; the -5 is about TL 2.2, and the -11 is a mildly upgraded version rather than a TL3+ engine.

[dnulho]

Not sure if you have talked about realistic life support in the 43 pages that i don't have time to read, but I am working on a drawing board for what a realistic life support system would need to work realistically.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/58408-Multi-Level-Life-Support-Drawing-board

Come on over and put in your two cents worth and I will try to design a system that works. If anyone is interested in helping me with programming plugins, modeling, texturing, or anything else, drop me a post or PM and I will put you to work

Thanks for your time,

[Guest]

For removing MM fields you need to (a) be doing your changes as :Final (if they were adding by MM; if they're in the part, no need) and ( use this syntax:

for values: !valuename

for nodes: !NODENAME {}

See, otherwise MM will think it's a value called NODENAME

The problem is, I'm removing some nodes while at the same time adding others, with the same functionality. It seems that this confuses MM to no end.

[NathanKell]

Huh. I've never had a problem doing that...what's your syntax?

[Starwaster]

The problem is, I'm removing some nodes while at the same time adding others, with the same functionality. It seems that this confuses MM to no end.

Huh. I've never had a problem doing that...what's your syntax?

Actually, it depends on what sort of node you mean...

things like parts and modules it would be

!MODULE[<module name>]{}

variables (I think this is what you meant by valuename Nathan)

!<variable name>

things like powerCurve would be

!powerCurve{}

[Guest]

OK, using a separate ModuleEngines for the Soyuz turbopump didn't work out. So here's another idea: add "Oxidizer" as another fuel for the main engines.

Now, I need someone to better versed in how KSP handles this to run the calcs. Here's what I've got:

RP-1 amount: 0.361

LOX amount: 0.639

Boosters:

Thrust: 995.30

Oxidizer: 163

Burn time: 120s

Isp: 257-314

Core:

Thrust: 1019

Oxidizer: 356.16

Burn time: 286s

Isp: 248-315

Now, I need to change the ratios to accomodate the 3rd propellant. It should be done so the give Oxidizer amount lasts for the given burn time. An automated calculator would be nice, but not necessary.

EDIT: Also, I'm scrapping the spoolup mechanic. It doesn't really add to the game and stock "engine response time" follow some logarithmic-looking curve. They can't reach max thrust with it enabled, the response slows down to a crawl in the last 100kN.

As a compensation, you'll get the Energia rocket. Without the Buran (at least until Ferram is done with it's aerodynamics), but it's still a beast capable of bringing about 100T to LEO.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Guest

[ferram4]

I believe the engine propellant ratios are for mass flow, not volumetric flow, so if you know the total mass of "Oxidizer" you need then you can simply figure out what fraction of stuff is RP-1, LOX and "Oxidizer" and then you can set the engines to run on those ratios, and then multiply the mass of the "Oxidizer" by the propellant densities to figure out how many units you need in the tank. NathanKell probably knows more, since he's been dealing more with the engine code than I have.

Edit: No, it wouldn't be mass flow; that would break ion engines. It has to be "volumetric" flow then. So then you just need to take the mass of "Oxidizer" you need, divide that by the propellant density to get the volume units. Then you know the amount of RP-1, LOX, and Oxidizer; add up the totals, divide each amount by the total number of units and that gives you the ratios for each one.

Edited November 19, 2013 by ferram4

[Starwaster]

It's tricky. First you have to calculate by mass. Then convert that to volume.

If you get it wrong you end up with leftovers in one of your resources. (Hey you've got ullage now...)

[Guest]

Well, since the data is taken from the real Soyuz, I know how much of what I need in each tank. I just want to calculate the ratio. I'm sick right now, which doesn't exactly help with complex maths.

[Starwaster]

Well, since the data is taken from the real Soyuz, I know how much of what I need in each tank. I just want to calculate the ratio. I'm sick right now, which doesn't exactly help with complex maths.

ok, so how much is in each tank?

[NathanKell]

Sorry! I totally missed this yesterday. Also, Dragon01, hope you feel better!

The main idea is this: KSP operates off volume ratios. Each, tick it calculates how much of each propellant to consume based on the weighted (by ratio) density of all propellants divided by Isp and multiplied by thrust (basically, the opposite of the burn time equation, solving for mass rather than time, with time fixed at tick length).

What you need to do is calculate the total impulse of the stage (thrust * burn time) and make sure it stays constant. If you add an additional propellant, and leave Isp as it is, burn time will lengthen since there's slightly more propellants to be burned. So.

You first need the total volume of kerosene and the total volume of LOx. Set your engine PROPELLANT ratios to those for the two propellants (the exact volume as the ratio, not some percent like 60/40, but 30000/20000 or whatever). Now add a third PROPELLANT block, Oxidizer, and set its ratio to the total volume of H2O2 in the stage (H2O2 mass divided by Oxidizer's density).

Now, you have to correct Isp. Multiply Isp by (total mass of kerosene and LOx) / (total mass of kerosene and LOx and H2O2) for both sea level and Vacuum Isp.

That should do it, I think.

[vetrox]

Sorry to randomly barge in.

Can someone recommend all the realism addons wih their full names as i dont know what all the acronyms are.

I have deadly re-entry and I have FAR (I also want the real solar system mod) but i dont know what the others are.

I find regular ksp a bit too easy now and want an extra challenge.

Thanks

[Guest]

[snip]

That should do it, I think.

Looks like I'll have to alter Isp values. Well, hopefully Oxidizer loads are so minuscle compared to RP-1/LOX ones that it shouldn't change too much. Oh, and thanks. I'm feeling a bit better, but it'll be some time before I show up on my Uni. Well, more time for KSP, I guess. Though I'd have to do some learning on my own, I've missed too much already.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Guest

[Razorcane]

Hm. I think something is wrong somewhere. I'm trying to update the Saturn V to make it more realistic, however I seem to have broken something.

I'm using THIS for fuel unit reference. I'm using LiquidFuel/LiquidOxygen for the fuels, and I'm using those numbers, but the first stage weighs 11,000 tons, which is about 9,000 more than it should. I would question the accuracy of the picture, but it's from the nasa website, so I don't know...any ideas?

[Guest]

KSP volume units are not liters. NathanKell should know a precise conversion factor, but it's not 1:1.

[MedievalNerd]

Sorry to randomly barge in.

Can someone recommend all the realism addons wih their full names as i dont know what all the acronyms are.

I have deadly re-entry and I have FAR (I also want the real solar system mod) but i dont know what the others are.

I find regular ksp a bit too easy now and want an extra challenge.

Thanks

In terms of mods, take all the ones in Nathan's signature.

MFT -Modular Fuel Tanks (Systems)

Deadly Reentry Continued

Real Solar System

Stretchy SRB / Tanks

In the MFT thread, you'll notice some additional instructions on which version does what. (Add realistic masses/fuels) And there is also Nathan's resize tweak file (KATO Engines) which plays around with the sizes/purposes of some engines.

Cheers,

[vetrox]

In terms of mods, take all the ones in Nathan's signature.

MFT -Modular Fuel Tanks (Systems)

Deadly Reentry Continued

Real Solar System

Stretchy SRB / Tanks

In the MFT thread, you'll notice some additional instructions on which version does what. (Add realistic masses/fuels) And there is also Nathan's resize tweak file (KATO Engines) which plays around with the sizes/purposes of some engines.

Cheers,

Thanks,

+1 rep. Just spotted this forum has a rep system

[Starwaster]

Thanks,

+1 rep. Just spotted this forum has a rep system

You can also rate the thread with an Exxxxxcellent

[NathanKell]

Razorcane: Just find the total mass (in tons!) of each fuel, and divide by the "KSP density" of each listed here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvHneDAy4k99dHlhdktvZW1NS1lndlhNNnRwd3FEblE&usp=drive_web#gid=2

That is your units of fuel.

[Razorcane]

Razorcane: Just find the total mass (in tons!) of each fuel, and divide by the "KSP density" of each listed here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvHneDAy4k99dHlhdktvZW1NS1lndlhNNnRwd3FEblE&usp=drive_web#gid=2

That is your units of fuel.

Thanks, that helped a lot. I was able to get the Saturn V into orbit, although I noticed that it's impossible to do it before reaching the apoapsis. I was already descending back to the planet when I finally got into a stable orbit of 192km/127km. I didn't try to go to the Mun though, because I really don't like that inclination.

[NathanKell]

Cool.

You're using the S-IVB for final push to orbit, right? You can't quite get there on S-IC/S-II. Max payload to 185x185@28 is ~120t, and S-IVB + Apollo stack is like 165.

Sounds like you might need a different ascent path, too--but it may well be that they circularized after apogee. S-IVB has _such_ a tiny TWR, and S-II isn't that better.

[Guest]

I found that a lot of rockets don't have a problem with circularizing past Ap. Soyuz does that, anything with a Centaur upper stage usually does, too. Upper stages, generally, don't have a whole lot of TWR.

[Captain_Party]

Can someone help me with placing my Comm Sats in Geo-Sync orbit? For example, when I am at latitude 0 and I burn I will end up roughly at 138 degree latitude?