If resources were to be implemented as the last stage before release of v1.0...

[rodion_herrera]

I think your stages are still messed up. HarvestR mentioned being close to a working economy with the .22 release, but he thought it wouldn't make the cut. So it sounds like it is likely to be in the next release as the main focus. Which puts it much earlier. Also a lot of your other things, like filling in the Biomes and stuff, all though I am sure a resonable amount of work, doesn't sound like anything that would even rise to a full release, let alone possibly several releases.

For the later stage stuff, SQUAD has mentioned that reliability will NOT be occuring in the game. No worries that a part or engine might randomly fail. Wouldn't that suck if there could be random part failures and you just lost a mission after 3 hours of real world time? I'd be pretty annoyed. Bad enough if I screwed something up, I don't need random stuff breaking in game as a feature.

Going back though, I do think the next 2-3 releases are going to be very career focused. After that it is just too up in the air. As HarvestR explained around .19, they are in asymptote mode. As features get expanded, adding meaninful game play value for that feature requires increasing amounts of work. I think until Career is to a point where it takes a lot more work to expand it just a small amount, I think they may refocus on sandbox...or focus on things that expand both of them roughly equally (like resources).

I do think career mode is going to take a few more release to get it to where they are happy though.

Research/science is big/huge and I love it. However, I think there is going to be a lot more than simply giving you money and a budget to finishing off career mode and the possible cross over a resources in to career mode (I hope there will be a mission system at some point among other things).

Your points all taken. Again, may I remind that my "predictions" are just a template so I can ask my REAL question (which is targeted towards those who actually paid for the game expecting a resource-collection game, and were forced to do that via mods, and since mods are broken each time a new release is made, they are the most pissed-off lot in the KSP community....snicker.)

[lazarus1024]

The prerequisite of this, is that a resource system is in place, and that these stations would be the base of resource processing operations. After all, what is the logic of having bases in far off worlds, or orbital stations, if the sole purpose is just to build them there?

Allowing you to setup up space centers/launching points could be one of the features of bases/space stations.

I agree that resources would be a major boon to giving them a purpose, but there are other things they can be useful for. If/when life support gets added to the game, even if resource extraction doesn't exist, having a space station/base can be a big thing to resupply fuel and air from.

Or if you land the right modules on Duna, now you can start missions launching from there. Or maybe it just allows you to construct thing if you take the parts there. Not sure how they want to work it, but I'd swear I remember HarvestR saying they'd add in the ability to CONSTRUCT space centers. That could be a faulty memory though.

[fatfluffycat]

Where is the option, " I don't care for resources"?

[rodion_herrera]

Where is the option, " I don't care for resources"?

LOL. I assume you'd click on the third one, sir. But then for those who want to stress that fact that they want a pure sandbox environment (which I did emphasize in some of my earlier polls), I should indeed included that option.

[lazarus1024]

Your points all taken. Again, may I remind that my "predictions" are just a template so I can ask my REAL question (which is targeted towards those who actually paid for the game expecting a resource-collection game, and were forced to do that via mods, and since mods are broken each time a new release is made, they are the most pissed-off lot in the KSP community....snicker.)

Valid, but I probably would have lead with the actual question and then thrown in the reasoning behind the question.

I paid for it back in .16, so I wasn't expecting resources back then. At least IMHO, the game is great as is. In each release SQUAD generally makes it a lot better in some way. Other than personal reasons (health, moving, etc) I've enjoyed every single update and each one adds something to the game that I have a lot fun with.

I suspect that I'll be having a heck of a lot of fun with .22 and still not be done with the tech tree by the time .23 hits and probably makes me start out from scratch again (oh darn).

[rodion_herrera]

Allowing you to setup up space centers/launching points could be one of the features of bases/space stations.

I agree that resources would be a major boon to giving them a purpose, but there are other things they can be useful for. If/when life support gets added to the game, even if resource extraction doesn't exist, having a space station/base can be a big thing to resupply fuel and air from.

You're right--forgot about implementing REAL supply (and food?) issues for the Kerbals.

Or if you land the right modules on Duna, now you can start missions launching from there. Or maybe it just allows you to construct thing if you take the parts there. Not sure how they want to work it, but I'd swear I remember HarvestR saying they'd add in the ability to CONSTRUCT space centers. That could be a faulty memory though.

Now that I would really want. The savings alone on ÃŽâ€v when launching from an airless moon is great.

[Cooly568]

I honestly don't care what they add or don't add to the game, as its brilliant as it already is.

[Beachernaut]

Edit, nevermind I misunderstood what the poster was meaning.

[rodion_herrera]

I think that's a bit unrealistic. We're still in Alpha, save game/mod braking updates are to be expected. Too many people seem to forget that the game isn't finished, and updates are still for core parts of the game.

If you forgot, v0.20 (or was it v0.21) actually introduced a new system to somehow organize the way mods are integrated into the game. So I think it's not impossible--difficult maybe, but certainly not impossible.

[jfx]

Actually, another goal of this thread was perhaps to tease out a discussion on what one would predict to be a likely release date of v1.00, and what such a predicted date would mean to the different kinds of KSP players. I mean, say, if a person who perhaps just recently purchased KSP found out that say, it won't really be finished until 2015, would he feel he got what he paid for?

I've been around since 0.9 - so a little more than 2 years now. Since 0.18 the following updates were just: check new features, check new mods and yup boring again. Don't touch until the next update.

Did I get my moneys worth? Yes. Did I expect more? Yes.

With the technical infrastructure of KSP (physx/unity/squads own code) only holding on at the seams even now and not really improving since the transition to unity3d 4 I feel there is a ton of unused potential due to the limited experience and ressources at squad.

[Beachernaut]

If you forgot, v0.20 (or was it v0.21) actually introduced a new system to somehow organize the way mods are integrated into the game. So I think it's not impossible--difficult maybe, but certainly not impossible.

I think it was .20, but not sure.

Anyway, I misunderstood, I thought the post referred to updates rather than mods.

[Torham234]

Actually, another goal of this thread was perhaps to tease out a discussion on what one would predict to be a likely release date of v1.00, and what such a predicted date would mean to the different kinds of KSP players. I mean, say, if a person who perhaps just recently purchased KSP found out that say, it won't really be finished until 2015, would he feel he got what he paid for?

This is the mixed blessing of crowd funding. The developers get the cash they need, but the consumer can be potentially buying into something that he might not like in the end. Its the same deal with preorders. I have burned my fingers way too many times on preorders, so I just don't do them any more. I always wait for the reviews from the actual players, not bought out reviews from big magazines. I do buy into alpha every now and then, but always only after I played the demo for a good amount of time. In these cases I mentally prepare myself for a wait that WILL last years. I have been around for a while now and I know how long a game can take to get finished.

In case of KSP, I was quite happy to pay money for just the alpha version, the the thought that I will get a better version in the future was just an icing on the cake. As far as I am concerned, every feature that was implemented after 0.18 is a free bonus.

[Beachernaut]

In case of KSP, I was quite happy to pay money for just the alpha version, the the thought that I will get a better version in the future was just an icing on the cake. As far as I am concerned, every feature that was implemented after 0.18 is a free bonus.

Big +1 there. I think most of the people who don't feel they got their money's worth are people who bought before ever playing, and were discouraged by the steep learning curve. In that regard, I think the new career mode is a good step.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Beachernaut

[rakutenshi]

Mods by their nature in any game will always risk breaking saves, unless there is an update that changes nothing behind the scenes (i.e. just tweaks a couple config numbers basically). That's just the risk you take when modding a game.

Would you rather have your mod developer decide that, even though they figured out a much better way to do something, they weren't going to change the mod at all because you don't feel like making all those launches you've already accomplished over again?

[Sarge82nd]

As long as the game is fun, I'll keep playing

[macegee]

A year ago (maybe during KerbalKon or a usual devstream) they said KSP is going to be under development for at least 1-1.5 more years. Stuff could've changed since then, but I don't think this period has been increased substantially by more than a year (they succeeded on Steam after all). This means that 1.0 release version will come out not later than the end of 2014 or mid 2015, probably, or even earlier.

As you could see, each update cycle is now takes 2-3 months, plus some time in between for holidays and planning and conferences and all that stuff. So that makes 4-6 updates for year max. Which means that 1.0 won't be an actual 1.0, but something more like 0.3 or so.

Edited October 22, 2013 by macegee

[Leatherneck]

I had to laugh at the "No" Option.

On topic though, I'd like to see Resources sooner, rather than later and here is why:

1) More stuff to research. Taking pictures during an EVA of a rock from space is one thing, standing on it another, but figure out what that rock can do? That opens up avenues for money, research, engineering, fuel, etc.

2) Exploration. I love that there is more to do, and I am thoroughly enjoying Career, but I would love to prospect for new resources.

3) Mission stuff. Great, I found this great resource! Now, how to I transport it to the base? Build it here? What if the terrain sucks? Transport it? How far? How much? WHY?!

4) Economy building block. Use the resource to fund projects? To build stuff? One relates to the other, but I think Economy would have to come after figuring out the whole resource thing.

5) Flavor. Sandbox is great, if you have the imagination to try things, and to challenge yourself. However, think of all the fun disasters to create/prevent with more things to do! There'd obviously be things to go with resources (aka more parts), as I doubt they'd have Kerbals mine stuff barehanded. So, isn't that what some people want anyway?

Save for the desire for some more Aeronautical Engineering parts, and cargobays/fairings, all in all, I love the game as it is, I but look forward to every addition, especially since I self-imposed a stock only challenge.

[rodion_herrera]

Big +1 there. I think most of the people who don't feel they got their money's worth are people who bought before ever playing, and were discouraged by the steep learning curve. In that regard, I think the new career mode is a good step.

A good step, perhaps in guiding the new user on which equipment to select and use first. However, the game still lacks a means to introduce (via a sort of tutorial, the basics of orbital mechanics, to help the user get stuff out of Kerbin. I wonder if Squad has any plans to introduce something like that, you know, some kind of mission with pop-ups that tell you say, when to do the gravity turn while guiding a particular rocket to LKO.

[Torham234]

A good step, perhaps in guiding the new user on which equipment to select and use first. However, the game still lacks a means to introduce (via a sort of tutorial, the basics of orbital mechanics, to help the user get stuff out of Kerbin. I wonder if Squad has any plans to introduce something like that, you know, some kind of mission with pop-ups that tell you say, when to do the gravity turn while guiding a particular rocket to LKO.

I would be quite surprised if the game did not include some sort of tutorial in its final form. I vaguely remember that back when I was starting out there was a tutorial with a Kerbal scientist walking me through the basics of construction. I am not sure if its still in the current version, but If they bothered to include something like that into an early alpha build, there is a high chance that there will be a tutorial in the polished game. You could give the player a few career "government grants" to "test" SRB's by launching them straight up and collecting data before moving on. Also there is no need for the fresh players to achieve perfect orbits on first try. I remember that it took me quite a while to get anything that resembled circular orbit when I was starting out.

[rodion_herrera]

I would be quite surprised if the game did not include some sort of tutorial in its final form. I vaguely remember that back when I was starting out there was a tutorial with a Kerbal scientist walking me through the basics of construction. I am not sure if its still in the current version, but If they bothered to include something like that into an early alpha build, there is a high chance that there will be a tutorial in the polished game. You could give the player a few career "government grants" to "test" SRB's by launching them straight up and collecting data before moving on. Also there is no need for the fresh players to achieve perfect orbits on first try. I remember that it took me quite a while to get anything that resembled circular orbit when I was starting out.

*Slaps forehead* You're right, I forgot that there was a training section

[Spaps]

Well, I like the idea of "several brands of SAME engine, varying reliability"

It should be implemented later!

[jcraft]

While resources are something that I would like to see implemented into the game sooner rather than later it is not a critical issue for me. I simply want to see resource mining implemented someday, but when it comes to in which point of development it will happen - that doesn't concern me as long I'm gonna see it in whatever version Squad decide to name "final release".

Edited October 23, 2013 by jcraft

[Beachernaut]

A good step, perhaps in guiding the new user on which equipment to select and use first. However, the game still lacks a means to introduce (via a sort of tutorial, the basics of orbital mechanics, to help the user get stuff out of Kerbin. I wonder if Squad has any plans to introduce something like that, you know, some kind of mission with pop-ups that tell you say, when to do the gravity turn while guiding a particular rocket to LKO.

I would be quite surprised if the game did not include some sort of tutorial in its final form. I vaguely remember that back when I was starting out there was a tutorial with a Kerbal scientist walking me through the basics of construction. I am not sure if its still in the current version, but If they bothered to include something like that into an early alpha build, there is a high chance that there will be a tutorial in the polished game. You could give the player a few career "government grants" to "test" SRB's by launching them straight up and collecting data before moving on. Also there is no need for the fresh players to achieve perfect orbits on first try. I remember that it took me quite a while to get anything that resembled circular orbit when I was starting out.

IIRC there were some basic tutorials, but it's been a while so I don't remember exactly what they were. IMO tutorials are part of the "polish" of a game, I have no experience, but I suspect that this will be part of the ending stages of the game development.

To make it easier to get players really into the game, there needs to be some more advanced tutorials for key parts of the game. Maneuver nodes, orbital rendezvous, Holman (sp?) transfers, docking, etc.

[rodion_herrera]

IIRC there were some basic tutorials, but it's been a while so I don't remember exactly what they were. IMO tutorials are part of the "polish" of a game, I have no experience, but I suspect that this will be part of the ending stages of the game development.

To make it easier to get players really into the game, there needs to be some more advanced tutorials for key parts of the game. Maneuver nodes, orbital rendezvous, Holman (sp?) transfers, docking, etc.

In the menu, there's a TRAINING BUTTON. That's why I slapped my forehead--I totally forgot it was there. And yes Kerman von Braun is there to help you get your first rocket to orbit, which is nice.

[Galileo Kerbonaut]

"I'll still keep playing--I still enjoy KSP and Squad's plans and think I got what I paid for"

If Squad thinks that would be the best course, I'm happy with that... I'm sure there would be a reason for that. Luckily there are so many mods out there (which also constantly update), I can keep myself busy for years... even if KSP would never make it to 0.23.

For me, KSP keeps getting better every week. I love browsing the Spaceport... so much to download, so much to do; it already is pretty endless.