[1.1.2] Station Science (v2.0: New models by SpeedyB)

[XanderTek]

ethernet, have you seen nothke's FLEXrack mod? It's supposed to be releasing soon, and looks like the perfect way to transfer experiment modules to and from the station.

[ethernet]

ethernet, have you seen nothke's FLEXrack mod? It's supposed to be releasing soon, and looks like the perfect way to transfer experiment modules to and from the station.

Thanks for the link; hadn't seen that. I'll look into it incorporating it once it's released.

Edited December 20, 2013 by ethernet

[Fyrem]

yes, FLEXrack and this mod are like ... Bacon and .. well, More Bacon!

[ethernet]

The fourth alpha is now available. Changes include:

• 0.23 compatibility. Changes to the resources system caused problems with the small resource quantities this mod deals with.
  
• Added the Attach-O-Tron docking port. This "prototype" port is available early in the tech tree, but does not permit fuel transfer.
  
• Added models for the experiment pods. These models will only apply to newly launched vessels. Old pods will remain as-is.
  
• Moved parts to the science branch of the tech tree. The parts are more spread out, but generally permit gaining science with this mod sooner.
  
• Experiments can now be transmitted, but at a low return rate.
  
• Finished non-bioproduct experiments can be collected by EVA'd Kerbals.
  
• Fixed an issue with unattended operations.
  

Known Issue: Using the stock Processing Lab to clean this mod's spent experiment pods takes an extremely long time, and cannot be timewarped. The issue appears to be that processing time is proportional to the value of the experiment. There doesn't seem to be anything I can do about this.

Delete the old StationScience folder if you're updating from an older version.

Edited December 21, 2013 by ethernet

[Ratzap]

Most excellent, I was wondering how you'd tackle the docking problem and this is an elegant solution.

[TimMartland]

The fourth alpha is now available. Changes include:

• 0.23 compatibility. Changes to the resources system caused problems with the small resource quantities this mod deals with.
  
• Added the Attach-O-Tron docking port. This "prototype" port is available early in the tech tree, but does not permit fuel transfer.
  
• Added models for the experiment pods. These models will only apply to newly launched vessels. Old pods will remain as-is.
  
• Moved parts to the science branch of the tech tree. The parts are more spread out, but generally permit gaining science with this mod sooner.
  
• Experiments can now be transmitted, but at a low return rate.
  
• Finished non-bioproduct experiments can be collected by EVA'd Kerbals.
  
• Fixed an issue with unattended operations.
  

Known Issue: Using the Processing Lab to clean spent experiment pods takes an extremely long time, and cannot be timewarped. The issue appears to be that processing time is proportional to the value of the experiment. There doesn't seem to be anything I can do about this.

Delete the old StationScience folder if you're updating from an older version.

Yay! But I have some questions

1. By processing lab do you mean the stock one? If you do that's a pretty game breaking bug you have their.

2. Any chances of pictures with all the new models?

3. Did you ever talk to UKD_lethal_dose about part models? He said he might send you a message, but all has been quiet and I wondered if anything happened.

[ethernet]

Yay! But I have some questions

1. By processing lab do you mean the stock one? If you do that's a pretty game breaking bug you have their.

Yes, but to be clear I'm only talking about the pods from my mod. There's no effect on other science parts. I wouldn't call that "game breaking"; cleaning experiments is a pretty minor part of the game, and it does work. It's a problem with the stock game logic for the Processing Lab that I don't see a good way around.

2. Any chances of pictures with all the new models?

The first screenshot in the OP shows the new experiment pod model. They're all the same just with a different decal for each. The new docking port is visible as well.

3. Did you ever talk to UKD_lethal_dose about part models? He said he might send you a message, but all has been quiet and I wondered if anything happened.

Never got a PM. I'm making progress on the other part models. Thanks, but at this point I'd rather do it myself.

Most excellent, I was wondering how you'd tackle the docking problem and this is an elegant solution.

A lot more elegant in concept than in execution... the game really does not want anyone messing with fuel transfers.

Edited December 21, 2013 by ethernet

[TimMartland]

Yes, but to be clear I'm only talking about the pods from my mod. There's no effect on other science parts. I wouldn't call that "game breaking"; cleaning experiments is a pretty minor part of the game, and it does work. It's a problem with the stock game logic for the Processing Lab that I don't see a good way around.

The first screenshot in the OP shows the new experiment pod model. They're all the same just with a different decal for each. The new docking port is visible as well.

Never got a PM. I'm making progress on the other part models. Thanks, but at this point I'd rather do it myself.

A lot more elegant in concept than in execution... the game really does not want anyone messing with fuel transfers.

Sorry about 1. , I misunderstood and thought you meant ALL experiments took ages, not just ones from the mod. Its also great to hear that your making progress with models - the science experiment pods look amazing and I love how they fit with the stock parts. It would be epic if the station parts did the same (you could model them off SQUADs lab).

Good luck!

[soranno]

Thank you for the update, and I very much like the style you have adopted for the experiment pod models. Simple and elegant

There does however seem to be a problem with the experiment pods` attachment nodes, when it comes to radially attaching things to them.

Everything tries to attach at skewed angles and require some fine tuning. Perhaps a revisiting of the pods` attachment nodes configurations could solve it.

Looking forward to the next developments of your mod!

[ethernet]

There does however seem to be a problem with the experiment pods` attachment nodes, when it comes to radially attaching things to them.

Everything tries to attach at skewed angles and require some fine tuning. Perhaps a revisiting of the pods` attachment nodes configurations could solve it.

Thanks for the feedback, but I've not been able to replicate the issue. Everything seems to surface attach correctly to the experiment pods. Could you send me a .craft file that demonstrates the issue? I.e., attach something to a pod without adjusting its orientation manually.

[landeTLS]

How about using the science lab made by zzz. It has an iva and animations and looks really awesome. He also released it opensource from what i understand. (Posting from my phone and cant get it to paste in links so just search for hab/hub on the forums and youll find the thread)

[soranno]

seems to be it was a result of angle snap, or rather not using angle snap, and is common to all parts being radially attached. When using angle snap everything goes on just as it should.

[federicoaa]

I'm gonna try it when I have some time this week, seems like a good idea to have a station orbiting kerbin with this

[ethernet]

seems to be it was a result of angle snap, or rather not using angle snap, and is common to all parts being radially attached. When using angle snap everything goes on just as it should.

Still not seeing the issue on my end. Tried extracting the spaceport download to a fresh install of 0.23. Everything I attach works as I'd expect, with or without angle snap, and in both the VAB and SPH.

Do have other mods installed that might be interfering?

How about using the science lab made by zzz. It has an iva and animations and looks really awesome. He also released it opensource from what i understand. (Posting from my phone and cant get it to paste in links so just search for hab/hub on the forums and youll find the thread)

Thanks for the suggestion. I hadn't realized that model is public domain. I don't think I'll be going that way for a few reasons. First, it's already in well-known use by Interstellar, and it would be confusing to use it in my mod if people use it alongside Interstellar. Which I want to support, as it gives a good use for the large amount of science this mod can produce. Second, it's not really "stock-like"; it's a bit more futuristic. Good for Interstellar, but not what I'm going for here. Finally, since zzz didn't provide the source model, just the compiled .mu, it would be hard to create other parts, like the Zoology Bay, in a consistent style.

[Jivaii]

Thanks for the suggestion. I hadn't realized that model is public domain. I don't think I'll be going that way for a few reasons. First, it's already in well-known use by Interstellar, and it would be confusing to use it in my mod if people use it alongside Interstellar. Which I want to support, as it gives a good use for the large amount of science this mod can produce. Second, it's not really "stock-like"; it's a bit more futuristic. Good for Interstellar, but not what I'm going for here. Finally, since zzz didn't provide the source model, just the compiled .mu, it would be hard to create other parts, like the Zoology Bay, in a consistent style.

It'd confuse me a little, since I use both Station Science and KSPI

[Guest]

I like the mod, except for one thing. The parts are...pretty heavy. I know its station science, and the idea is to put heavy modules up into orbit, but still. Heavy parts like the TH-NKR Science lab are unlocked pretty early in the tree, but it weighs 20 tons, which makes it quite difficult to get into orbit with smaller rocketry components.

Any chance there will be a re-balancing, either with the mass or placement in tech tree?

[Honoka]

Hello. Mod looks awesome. The idea of space stations is the thing i missed in KSP I have built my own station but then i realized i can't see experiment modules They are not existing even in tech tree. I've installed on "fresh" KSP Kethane mod and Station Science. Do you have any ideas what is wrong?

[Frostiken]

I like the mod, except for one thing. The parts are...pretty heavy. I know its station science, and the idea is to put heavy modules up into orbit, but still. Heavy parts like the TH-NKR Science lab are unlocked pretty early in the tree, but it weighs 20 tons, which makes it quite difficult to get into orbit with smaller rocketry components.

Any chance there will be a re-balancing, either with the mass or placement in tech tree?

I actually didn't have much trouble getting it up. I used several radial liquid rockets and asparagus staging. The first stage only had five liquid engines (one center, two-by-two asparagus) and was boosted by four small SRBs.

The real problem is that the attach-o-tron is more likely to be unlocked before RCS and Adv SAS which makes docking pretty ridiculous. I also went ahead and enabled radial attachment because I didn't like how it looked otherwise. I did manage to dock a few asymmetrical modules without Adv SAS but it was damn hard.

Is there any chance at all that you'll expand this concept to envelop the stock science parts? I absolutely love what you're doing with this, and it would be the bee's knees to have all the stock experiments require the same time / resource investment. Being able to strap half a dozen nearly-weightless goo experiments onto a pod that barely fits one Kerbal and vacuuming up tons of science without any effort is one of the more terrible dings against the stock science system.

*IF* (if, if, if) you're planning on encompassing the stock system, I have a few bits of input.

- Crew reports are changed. Based on the biome that you're in, every capsule (or anything that can collect a crew report) will gradually build up 'report points' over time. A capsule on Kerbin won't tell you ****, but one on the surface of Duna will be interesting. Every report gives you only a few points, but the idea is that 'checking in' on your crews is rewarded. It doesn't really make sense that I *wouldn't* want a report from my crews, because I already got a report from a different ship two months ago.

- Scientific instruments (thermometers and such) contribute exponential amounts of data towards a full 'science package' based on how many different readings you get, how far apart distance-wise your readings are, and how much time has elapsed. A stationary science lab, for example, could be put into a 'constant monitor' mode that gradually builds up points over time, whereas they could probably be gathered a little quicker if you had a rover roaming around getting readings in various locations. Simply pushing the button once to gather a single data point, however, tells you almost nothing.

- A single Kerbal or probe core can only accomplish a single experiment at a time. For the probe cores, perhaps a 'CPU addon' part that weighs a little but sucks more power could be added?

Edited December 24, 2013 by Frostiken

[ethernet]

I like the mod, except for one thing. The parts are...pretty heavy. I know its station science, and the idea is to put heavy modules up into orbit, but still. Heavy parts like the TH-NKR Science lab are unlocked pretty early in the tree, but it weighs 20 tons, which makes it quite difficult to get into orbit with smaller rocketry components.

Any chance there will be a re-balancing, either with the mass or placement in tech tree?

I don't want to move things later in the tree, otherwise they get unlocked after they're useful.

As for mass, I'm open to tweaking the masses if I don't think they're right, but I want to provide challenge, because challenge is fun. It could be too far, and be frustrating, but most of the feedback I've seen so far seems to be OK with the masses as they are. It's certainly possible to put the parts into orbit with just 1m parts.

Hello. Mod looks awesome. The idea of space stations is the thing i missed in KSP I have built my own station but then i realized i can't see experiment modules They are not existing even in tech tree. I've installed on "fresh" KSP Kethane mod and Station Science. Do you have any ideas what is wrong?

Try starting a Sandbox game and see if you can see them in the VAB there. You should actually see two sets of experiment pods there; the old "welded stock parts" placeholders, and the new models.

Can you send me your persistence file?

The real problem is that the attach-o-tron is more likely to be unlocked before RCS and Adv SAS which makes docking pretty ridiculous. I also went ahead and enabled radial attachment because I didn't like how it looked otherwise. I did manage to dock a few asymmetrical modules without Adv SAS but it was damn hard.

All the stock command parts include SAS; the old ASAS part is actually quite pointless now. Reaction wheels can help, but are hardly necessary. And are an early tech, anyway.

RCS is unlocked just after the Attach-O-Tron, along with fuel lines. I think this is OK. It means you can send up the Science Lab first, and then unlock RCS later to send up more modules to dock with it.

Ultimately, I don't think these sorts of issues are a problem. If someone doesn't have the chops to put together a station with just the bare minimum tech needed to unlock the parts, they can just wait until they unlock more parts.

Is there any chance at all that you'll expand this concept to envelop the stock science parts? I absolutely love what you're doing with this, and it would be the bee's knees to have all the stock experiments require the same time / resource investment. Being able to strap half a dozen nearly-weightless goo experiments onto a pod that barely fits one Kerbal and vacuuming up tons of science without any effort is one of the more terrible dings against the stock science system.

I don't want to change stock parts/mechanics with this mod. My goal is to add new gameplay, and I don't want to bundle it with changes to existing gameplay that some people might not like.

But if you want to put together a science mod that overhaul's the stock parts, my source is open for you to use.

[Frostiken]

ASAS is nice for RCS because it automatically keeps your ship oriented while docking. The new crappy SAS is too 'generous' and your stuff tends to rotate around oddly. It's doable without ASAS but ASAS makes docking much less of a headache.

[Fyrem]

umm... afaik there is no difference between the ASAS part and the SAS part any more (and hasn't been for a few versions now).

[Gaius]

umm... afaik there is no difference between the ASAS part and the SAS part any more (and hasn't been for a few versions now).

One small difference: the ASAS part is 67% more massive than the SAS part (0.5t vs. 0.3t). But yes, besides model and mass, they are otherwise identical. Identical reaction wheel torque, identical (A)SAS control...

[Frostiken]

One small difference: the ASAS part is 67% more massive than the SAS part (0.5t vs. 0.3t). But yes, besides model and mass, they are otherwise identical. Identical reaction wheel torque, identical (A)SAS control...

Wait, really? I haven't played in a long while. What the hell was the point of that? SAS and ASAS were working fine, why'd they break it?

[Honoka]

Haha, my problem solved i didn't put mod folder into the GameData but folders from it (i mean parts, resources etc.) into the game folder (me stupid >.>) The weird thing here was that i was able to use cyclotron, and other parts but not experiment modules. Waiting for more modules and models for them I would suggest to change sizes of parts that around 30, 40 tons. They should be much bigger if you want to keep their weight.

[NotCoach]

I like this mod, but I despise doing 50 million experiments to squeeze out all of the science. I adjusted my configs to give all science in one go, but decreased eureka and bioproduct production by 90% to balance. Just a thought on how to balance without turning science into a grindfest. I also think the amount of kibble needed to do all science without changing the config is excessive. Especially when you consider the fact that these stations can be established at all planetary bodies. Otherwise thank you for the mod, and please don't take any of my thoughts on this personally.