[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[Starwaster]

Yeah, I possibly overshoot twr, wasn't building small stuff for a long time. But having to be careful on ascent is a pretty sweet addition.

And if anyone is interested, I got closer to my vision by lowering density exp to ~0.5 and temperature exp to 1. It makes you burn much higher up and for longer time but with slightly lower temps to compensate.

From what I've guessed "shockwave" scale and damage caused by it is more linked to G-force or something, not real temperature despite showing celcius.

Thanks again, guys!

The shockwave temperature in Kelvins is roughly equal to velocity in meters per second. Kelvins -> Celsius is temp - 273

How much of that is transmitted to the space craft depends on air density. I think it's actually scaled by density? (at least in the code; not sure how it works IRL)

[NathanKell]

Same in real life. What's causing the heating is the impact of the molecules of the atmosphere on your craft. For obvious reasons that scales by density

[andrehsu]

Is there any progress on a kerbin friendly heatshield that could withstand a shockwaveExponent of 1.12 without modifying the heatshield size? IMHO, i think a shockwaveExponent of 1.12 should be default. The current default is way too easy. A majoring of debris wont burn up, especially those that have engines first. (I really think the engines should be modified to burn up easier. Engine = Heatshield???)

[nbartolomeo5]

I have a question about the CrewGMultiplier. Im trying to add a bit of difficulty by lowering Kerbals' G tolerance so i looked at the readme and decided to set the CrewGMultiplier to 4.3 instead of 4 (default). I edited the config file however the debug menu in game still says 4. When i try changing it in game it just reverts back to 4 every time a new craft is loaded however the config still says 4.3 . Does this value need to be an integer? or is it merely a bug in the debug gui or something. As long as the simulation code is going to use the correct value i really don't care. Can anyone confirm? thanks

Edited August 7, 2014 by nbartolomeo5

[nbartolomeo5]

Is there any progress on a kerbin friendly heatshield that could withstand a shockwaveExponent of 1.12 without modifying the heatshield size? IMHO, i think a shockwaveExponent of 1.12 should be default. The current default is way too easy. A majoring of debris wont burn up, especially those that have engines first. (I really think the engines should be modified to burn up easier. Engine = Heatshield???)

Ive been playing with the config from better than starting manned which uses 1.09 and it feels just about right

[smunisto]

So I don't follow the latest discussion regarding the exponent and cfg modification, but I have been meaning to increase the difficulty a bit. And since Nathan mentions more that the ShockwaveExponent is just one component of the way DREC works, I want to ask someone to share his own No-RSS-Harder-KSP.

Also does this cfg apply this exponent to some other string in the heatshield cfgs or should I modify them all? Or maybe for higher than default exponent I should just use RSS cfgs for the shields without touching anything?

TL;DR: Can anyone share his cfgs for fake 8km/s reentries for which he thinks he has found the "sweet" spot?

[Starwaster]

So I don't follow the latest discussion regarding the exponent and cfg modification, but I have been meaning to increase the difficulty a bit. And since Nathan mentions more that the ShockwaveExponent is just one component of the way DREC works, I want to ask someone to share his own No-RSS-Harder-KSP.

Also does this cfg apply this exponent to some other string in the heatshield cfgs or should I modify them all? Or maybe for higher than default exponent I should just use RSS cfgs for the shields without touching anything?

TL;DR: Can anyone share his cfgs for fake 8km/s reentries for which he thinks he has found the "sweet" spot?

The exponent in question is part of DREC's settings, the mod settings. It's not added to or used to modify any heat shields. If you do increase difficulty by changing the shockwave exponent (for example) then you would want heat shield configs that make your shields stronger.

You can access the DREC settings by pressing alt+D+R in flight, change them there and see the results in real time. (be careful changing shockwave exponent in flight; pause the game or you can accidentally incinerate your Kerbals very VERY easily because entering the decimal is tricky, as mentioned above)

[ThreePounds]

I find the shockwave exponent = 1.12 to be quite satisfying. If flown correctly, my capsules and other spacecraft including space planes survive, but everything else burns up completely. I have yet to see anything survive re-entry that wasn't designed for it.

However, I needed to modify some configs to make it work because they don't offer enough protection. You need the RO_DRE.cfg from the OP. But you need to add the mk1pod heatshield manually because it isn't included. I just posted the lines a few posts before because Nathan was so kind to link them to me.

I also needed to modify the B9 and SP+ configs. Just search my posts in this thread and you'll find more info. I tried to show everything I did.

[Jodo42]

Running KSP 64bit on Windows 7.

Running the following mods:

Environmental Visual Enhancements v7-3 with Astronomer's Visuals Pack Edge of Oblivion.

Ferram Aerospace Research v0.14.1.1

Deadly Reentry Continued v5.2

Experiencing a crash on startup. The loading bar stops when completely full, and alt-tabbing reveals a "Game has crashed!" popup. I was not experiencing this crash with only FAR and EVE.

Full output_log.txt contents(351,695 chars)

I somehow doubt anybody wants to look through 233 pages of error report, so I'm going to guess that EVE is my problem, since it's not been updated to .24.2 (even though it works with it). Or am I experiencing a known incompatibility/bug?

Any workarounds for this? Or am I just doing something wrong?

[NathanKell]

A question to the thread: going by the current posts, it seems most (?) people want harder reentries. I am therefore considering making all heat shields by default RSS-class, and upping the shockwave exponent if RSS is not present.

Thoughts?

Jodo42: No, your problem is using Win x64. It's notoriously buggy and crashy (Squad did warn us...). Try using 32bit KSP. It should be fine, although you may have to run ATM (note that ATM basic will not decrease visual quality but should still lower memory usage).

[Jovus]

Personally, I would prefer otherwise. I in fact have lowered the heat multiplier to about 15 instead of 25, though I've only flown a couple missions with DRC installed as of yet. Best of all I should think would be if you left it as it is, but included instructions and sample values for configuring things to be harder or easier. (You've already done this a bit, but a couple complete example profiles would be nice, and so would instructions on how to modify the heat-shield parts for harder/easier reentries.)

This is all of course because you asked; I'm very happy with the mod as it currently is. Thanks!

[Taki117]

A question to the thread: going by the current posts, it seems most (?) people want harder reentries. I am therefore considering making all heat shields by default RSS-class, and upping the shockwave exponent if RSS is not present.

Thoughts?

I think it would be benificial, not that Re-entry is difficult once you figure it out, but I think it's what people want. As far as adjustments go, you might have to up the reflectivity of the spaceplane parts to compensate, but I think it would be a good idea.

[Starwaster]

A question to the thread: going by the current posts, it seems most (?) people want harder reentries. I am therefore considering making all heat shields by default RSS-class, and upping the shockwave exponent if RSS is not present.

Thoughts?

I don't think it will decrease the amount of posts on the subject, but it'll probably increase the number who think that stock reentries are too hard.

Maybe add an in-game difficulty setting. Tie it into the new toolbar system maybe. That way it can be adjusted easily.

Except that it should be restricted to 2-3 choices like easy, medium, extra-crispy.

Manual exponent adjustment should still be limited to debug menu, which could also have a toolbar button tie in.

toolbar button

|--Difficulty Menu

|--Debug Menu

[taniwha]

A question to the thread: going by the current posts, it seems most (?) people want harder reentries. I am therefore considering making all heat shields by default RSS-class, and upping the shockwave exponent if RSS is not present.

Thoughts?

I think the default should stay as-is. Breaking physics just to make things "harder" is not something I consider appropriate. Returns from Kerbin SoI are generally easy, yes, and I imagine returns from Duna and Eve are too, but I have found that returning from a sun dive (and by extension from past experience at a time I wasn't using DRE, Jool) can be quite challenging. Hitting Kerbin's atmosphere at around 3km/s seems to be generally safe with appropriate shielding (I've gotten plenty of bangs coming back from Mun), but 4+km/s can become quite a challenge, and 10km/s... not going to happen (Kerbin is too small). And sub-orbital flights can be quite hair-raising.

Also, upping the difficulty for reentry would make space planes on stock-sized Kerbin much more difficult.

So... I agree that putting in an option (per-save is probably best) for "hard mode" is best, but the default should definitely stick with realistic heating. Remember: that was the whole point of DRE 2: realistic heating while making the player think about heat (DRE 1 was pretty much "forget entering the atmosphere").

Anyway, I think the problem is not so much the heating factor, but rather the crazy heat tolerances of the parts (even after DRE halves them (last I checked)). An Mk1 lander can should not be able to survive 1100°C (Mun FRO, 30km periapsis), or at least the kerbal inside should not. Iron melts at a little over 1500°C and goes through a structure chage at around 900°C, though I don't know what that does to its strength. Titanium softens at around 400°C.

[sumghai]

I definitely agree that the problem is more to do with the currently rather high heat tolerances - for this reason, all the configs for my addons like SDHI and FusTek are deliberately designed make them susceptible to burning up very easily on re-entry.

[NGXII]

Quick issue, I've got a crash on loading when using this mod (crashes with the mod installed, loads fine without). I'm using KSP 0.24.2, 32-bit, and a bunch of other mods. The error.txt, output_log.txt, and report.ini are in my dropbox, linked below. As a summary, the last few lines of the output_log.txt point to an issue with Deadly Reentry:

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)


Resource RESOURCE_DEFINITION added to database

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)


GameDatabase: Assets loaded in 75.661s

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)


PartLoader: Compiling Part 'DeadlyReentry/Parts/DRE_0625HS/0625_Heatshield'

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)


EffectList: Created 11 effect types

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)


Added sound_decoupler_fire to FXGroup decouple

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)


Crash!!!

Links:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hnra7axtqcphnkn/output_log.txt

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sbok8pnaaiziw5g/error.log

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j2ln7ojc3g0rc1c/report.ini

PS, please let me know ASAP if there's any problems with these links, it's my first time using dropbox

EDIT: Does this look like an issue with too many mods, rather than the mod itself?

Edited August 9, 2014 by NGXII

[NathanKell]

I'm convinced that the way to go is heat tolerances. Thanks for the input!

NGXII: probably yes. Try without your other mods but with DRE. The stack trace just said there was trouble reading a confignode, which, unless your download is corrupt, wouldn't be an issue.

And thanks for including the logs!

Edited August 9, 2014 by NathanKell

[Starwaster]

I'm convinced that the way to go is heat tolerances. Thanks for the input!

NGXII: probably yes. Try without your other mods but with DRE. The stack trace just said there was trouble reading a confignode, which, unless your download is corrupt, wouldn't be an issue.

And thanks for including the logs!

Someone included LOGS????

Quick, get the thorazine drip started! He must be nuts....

[TeeGee]

I've actually already messed with the part heat tolerances to get this exact effect. I've set the parachute heat at 200 as an example. I think that Kerbals haven't/shouldn't have developed parts with heat tolerances like humans due to the much lower reentry velocity that they have to experience.

Engines don't need high heat tolerances, only have lower heat production (because of active cooling). Structural parts need to have realistic melting temps and pods are WAAAAAy too tolerant of heating. The mark 1-2 pod should have a MAX tolerance of 800 without a heat shield. The whole point of having DR is to create tension/worry during the dangers of reentry . If you want to survive reentry, you NEED a heat shield.

Heat shields should obviously have much better heat tolerance BUT shouldn't be on the scale of ROS heat shields.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Nathan is going to re-value the heat tolerances. I would like to compare notes!

[Starwaster]

The mark 1-2 pod should have a MAX tolerance of 800 without a heat shield. The whole point of having DR is to create tension/worry during the dangers of reentry . If you want to survive reentry, you NEED a heat shield.

Besides that, how else are the Kerbals going to heat their snacks if the onboard microwave oven gives out???

[Danjuro]

Sorry to interrupt, but I just wanted to post a lil message of appreciation, as I installed this mod yesterday and after bumping up the exponent as advised, am having loads of masochistic fun with it. Thank you so much!

[Starwaster]

Sorry to interrupt, but I just wanted to post a lil message of appreciation, as I installed this mod yesterday and after bumping up the exponent as advised, am having loads of masochistic fun with it. Thank you so much!

You wanna have even more fun? Get Real Chute (you should already have it; if not you are SO wrong)

Then turn on April Fools mode.

Then... I dunno, make something that splits off into multiple little parachute thingies...... and then trigger them all off and watch them go off like popcorns.

[NGXII]

I'm convinced that the way to go is heat tolerances. Thanks for the input!

NGXII: probably yes. Try without your other mods but with DRE. The stack trace just said there was trouble reading a confignode, which, unless your download is corrupt, wouldn't be an issue.

And thanks for including the logs!

Alright, loaded it up in 0.24.2 32bit using the same install as a base. I'll run it through steam soon to check for file errors, but alone, this mod works fine: loaded in without an issue, started a new game, rolled around on the pad for a bit, and exited without issue. Though if you could, could you sift through my logs to see if you see the same problem?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i8wuyze8mab6514/output_log%20%282%29.txt

[NathanKell]

Your log is clean.

[Dobrodav]

Hmm, cannot unlock first tech. Science reading shows that i am have needed 4 points (collected through 2 launches), but when trying to unlock - not enough points message. Third launch does not fixed it (nothing to collect). Trying to understand what goes wrong, for now.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Dobrodav
wrong thread