[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[ss8913]

During ascent/reentry, or just sitting there? If it happens when it's idle on the ground, it could be some parts with thermal masses that are too low. (at least, if I raise thermal masses on those parts it stops happening but my understanding is that there is another underlying cause and low thermal masses are only a trigger for that)

If it is, I can work around it

I'm working on it. I just got done with what I hope is the final pass on the config files. All references to skin variables had to be shifted over to the new stock system and none existent ones removed. Hopefully I'm moving to final testing.

Unfortunately, because DRE is very intertwined with stock thermodynamics now, we're stuck with the variable names.

However, one of my goals is to replace the current placeholder menu depicting my girlfriend cat with an actual menu that can be used to make adjustments.

Still, if you find yourself having a panic attack during reentry, just open the menu and look at the cat and your anxiety should go away.

Starwaster - the explosion happened at 100x time compression in a stable 150km circular polar orbit around Kerbin while I was doing a SCANsat pass with the low-altitude scanner. Which I've done hundreds of times before... this time just... *boom* out of nowhere, pod and all 3 kerbals gone.

[Starwaster]

Starwaster - the explosion happened at 100x time compression in a stable 150km circular polar orbit around Kerbin while I was doing a SCANsat pass with the low-altitude scanner. Which I've done hundreds of times before... this time just... *boom* out of nowhere, pod and all 3 kerbals gone.

Did it have any Okto struts on it? Or any other very low mass parts? Or do you have SETI installed?

[Tasmanian]

Please be informed, current DRE 7.1.0 with combination with FAR v0.15.3.1 slows things down to a crawl in 1.04. (At least on my AMD FX@4600MHz a 30 part ship is already slow)

Removing either of mods returns FPS to normal. Checked on 1.04 with no other mods installed.

Reproduction: install DRE&FAR, try default KerbalX ship in sandbox.

[steve_v]

The current system isn't too bad.

Unfortunately, perceived shortcomings of the stock system go far beyond "too easy". Too schizophrenic might be closer to the mark.

[Starwaster]

Please be informed, current DRE 7.1.0 with combination with FAR v0.15.3.1 slows things down to a crawl in 1.04. (At least on my AMD FX@4600MHz a 30 part ship is already slow)

Removing either of mods returns FPS to normal. Checked on 1.04 with no other mods installed.

Reproduction: install DRE&FAR, try default KerbalX ship in sandbox.

Please be informed that Deadly Reentry has not yet been updated for 1.0.4 and in fact is doing nothing at all for you except throwing exceptions

Uninstall Deadly Reentry and await the update.

I apologize for the delay and inconvenience.

[Tasmanian]

Please be informed that Deadly Reentry has not yet been updated for 1.0.4 and in fact is doing nothing at all for you except throwing exceptions

Uninstall Deadly Reentry and await the update.

I apologize for the delay and inconvenience.

That's ok. Thanks for quick reply. Thought that DRE 7.1 was compatible with all 1.0x KSP versions.

[Maelin]

How complicated would it be to keep the DRE parts but make them behave like stock so we don't get all the exceptions? I like the DRE heat shield for the Mk 1-2 pod a lot more than the ugly stock one.

[Recon777]

Out of curiosity, is the lander can not meant to reenter Kerbin? I sent Bob to Minmus to grab some science. I ended up using the lander can for whatever reason. I don't actually know what its advantage is over a command pod. But I couldn't keep it from exploding on reentry. The 1.25m heat shield did look like maybe it didn't cover everything. There was plenty ablator left when it blew. Then I thought - maybe these aren't meant to come back to Kerbin at all.

[Starwaster]

How complicated would it be to keep the DRE parts but make them behave like stock so we don't get all the exceptions? I like the DRE heat shield for the Mk 1-2 pod a lot more than the ugly stock one.

If you have DeadlyReentry installed, first delete the DeadlyReentry.dll file (DeadlyReentry/plugins)

Copy the following into a .cfg file into your DeadlyReentry folder (suggesting you do it this way because when you install the update, you're going to want to delete the existing folder anyway which will take care of removing this file)

@PART
[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleHeatShield]]:FINAL
{
!MODULE[ModuleHeatShield]{}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleAblator
ablativeResource = AblativeShield
lossExp = -6000
lossConst = 5
pyrolysisLossFactor = 120
reentryConductivity = 0.01
ablationTempThresh = 500
}


}

Deleting the dll will stop the exceptions and the patch will force the DRE shields to use the stock heat shield module (except that it will use the DRE resource so that your save game will still load smoothly when you update DRE)

This is totally untested by me but should work. The shield performance will be at DRE standards meaning that shields will ablate away quickly, lasting for about 1 reentry so make it count.

Out of curiosity, is the lander can not meant to reenter Kerbin? I sent Bob to Minmus to grab some science. I ended up using the lander can for whatever reason. I don't actually know what its advantage is over a command pod. But I couldn't keep it from exploding on reentry. The 1.25m heat shield did look like maybe it didn't cover everything. There was plenty ablator left when it blew. Then I thought - maybe these aren't meant to come back to Kerbin at all.

Yes, I just tried a sub orbital with the small lander can just to see, and quite a bit of it is exposed and it was taking convective heating..

Edit: To all: On the subject of WHEN the update will be ready, very soonâ„¢. I've finally got heat shield performance mostly where I want it and I just need to finish going over DRE's configs to make sure everything is ready. So probably another day or two.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Starwaster

[Magniff]

I've been using Deadly Reentry since KSP 0.23.0 (on normal difficulty, therefore it never was "that" deadly).

Thought I'd give the stock system a try,

but well..., since version 1.0.3 added the transition from laminar to turbulent airflow, I find it rather confusing (maybe I'm just to used to DRC).

But take your time Starwaster, I can wait .

And I have to admit, that cat picture is quite sad ='(.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Magniff

[guitarxe]

Did it have any Okto struts on it? Or any other very low mass parts? Or do you have SETI installed?

Might be an issue with SCANSat, because I had my satellites blow up when time-warping as well. Check out the posts on this page in the SCANSat thread:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/64972-1-0-2-DMagic-Orbital-Science-New-Science-Parts-v1-0-4-5-30-2015/page99

[Starwaster]

Might be an issue with SCANSat, because I had my satellites blow up when time-warping as well. Check out the posts on this page in the SCANSat thread:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/64972-1-0-2-DMagic-Orbital-Science-New-Science-Parts-v1-0-4-5-30-2015/page99

I looked at some of the output_log.txt files that people posted and in one case SETI was involved. SETI overrides the mass of certain parts (such as sensor parts) and sets them to abnormally low values.

That causes problems because low/no mass means low/no thermal mass which means the part heats up very very quickly or results in math errors or both. In Deadly Reentry (for KSP 1.0.2) I tried to work around the problem by enforcing a minimum thermal mass. Stock KSP lacks such protection.

In another case (probably not SETI related) I noticed errors in FlightIntegrator.FixedUpdate(), which is where thermal updates occur. If the error occurred for one part AFTER another part had conducted heat to it, that would mean that the part receiving the heat has no chance to get rid of it. That error occurred 5132 times for the person posting that log. (I forget who it was)

So the exploding parts bit that people were discussing in that thread had multiple causes apparently. One involving abnormally low thermal masses and another involving ill-timed errors in FlightIntegrator

[kcs123]

There is also reports with stock heating and FAR, perhaps issue is somewhere in MFI which is not updated for 1.0.4 ?

Meaning, MFI does not cause CTD, but perhaps need revision due to new stock skin heating system, so all issues in FAR and DRE could be solved properly.

[Starwaster]

There is also reports with stock heating and FAR, perhaps issue is somewhere in MFI which is not updated for 1.0.4 ?

Meaning, MFI does not cause CTD, but perhaps need revision due to new stock skin heating system, so all issues in FAR and DRE could be solved properly.

MFI has no coded functionality other than to wrap FI methods and allow other mods to register overriding methods. If no overrides are registered then stock methods execute instead.

Worse case scenario is that it may need recompiling. I'll ping Sarbian and check if that happened but even if it didn't it's probably ok

[cipherpunks]

Now that I'm trying to move to 1.0.4, and various parts variously explode at various, surprising times, I really want to see all the 1.0.4 thermal variables that go to .cfg's explained in one place and by someone who knows.

Starwaster?...

Edit: ok here's what I "know":

  %thermalMassModifier = 2  // 1.0 for insulator; Squad uses 4 often; 6 for nose cones
  %heatConductivity = 0.005  // 0.0001 for insulator; default = 0.12
  %radiatorMax = 0.35  // ?? dunno what it is; default = 0.25
  %radiatorHeadroom = 0.75  // ?? I don't give a damn; Squad uses 0.75 or 0.5 for radiators
  %emissiveConstant = 0.7  // ?? dunno what it is; Squad uses 0.9 for radiators
  %skinThicknessFactor = 0.85  // skin:internals proportion; around 1 for panels, around 0.1 or less for tanks
  %skinInternalConductionMult = 4.0  // skin -> intestines flux

Clarification and corrections welcome.

Oh, and one more thing: ThermalHelper doesn't seem to fully work on 1.0.4 (only the flag is colored on parts that have it, so it's impossible to quickly visually inspect entire craft for overheated parts anymore). I forgot where did I got that ThermalHelper - maybe there's update?...

Edited July 3, 2015 by cipherpunks
add some

[Streetwind]

FlowerChild listed all the variables governing part thermals here, you missed some

[Starwaster]

Now that I'm trying to move to 1.0.4, and various parts variously explode at various, surprising times, I really want to see all the 1.0.4 thermal variables that go to .cfg's explained in one place and by someone who knows.

Starwaster?...

Edit: ok here's what I "know":

  %thermalMassModifier = 2  // 1.0 for insulator; Squad uses 4 often; 6 for nose cones
  %heatConductivity = 0.005  // 0.0001 for insulator; default = 0.12
  %radiatorMax = 0.35  // ?? dunno what it is; default = 0.25
  %radiatorHeadroom = 0.75  // ?? I don't give a damn; Squad uses 0.75 or 0.5 for radiators
  %emissiveConstant = 0.7  // ?? dunno what it is; Squad uses 0.9 for radiators
  %skinThicknessFactor = 0.85  // skin:internals proportion; around 1 for panels, around 0.1 or less for tanks
  %skinInternalConductionMult = 4.0  // skin -> intestines flux

Clarification and corrections welcome.

Oh, and one more thing: ThermalHelper doesn't seem to fully work on 1.0.4 (only the flag is colored on parts that have it, so it's impossible to quickly visually inspect entire craft for overheated parts anymore). I forgot where did I got that ThermalHelper - maybe there's update?...

• thermalMassModifier = multiplier applied to the part's thermal mass. (the higher thermal mass is, the more energy it takes to heat it up one degree. High thermal mass is good for heat sinks. Low mass means that heat loss through radiation has more impact. This is how the shuttle's tiles worked)
  
• heatConductivity = heat transfer between parts (part.temperature <-> part.temperature)
  
• emissiveConstant = a multiplier to radiation, both incoming and outgoing. High emissive means it takes more heat from incoming thermal radiation, but it also means it is a good radiator. This is why radiators are often black. (white painted radiators such as the ISS uses are good reflectors in the visible range but good radiators in the IR range. KSP does not simulate scenarios such as this). (The basic formula for radiation is temperature^4 * surface area * Boltzmann-Stefan constant)
  
• 
  
• skinInternalConductionMult = multiplier applied to conduction from a part's skin to its internal (skin.temperature <-> part.temperature)
  
• skinSkinConductionMult = multiplier applied to conduction between two attached parts from skin to skin (skin1.temperature <-> skin2.temperature)
  
• skinMaxTemp = skin temperature higher than this destroys the part. If this field is not provided then the part's maxTemp is used.
  
• skinMassPerArea = another multiplier applied to skin thermal mass.
  
• radiatorMax = This percentage of the part's maxTemp is used by active radiators to determine when they should start sucking heat out of the part
  
• radiatorHeadroom = Also used by radiator parts but I'm not clear how... I think it applies only to the radiator part to determine how close it is allowed to get to its own maxTemp
  

Those are the ones you specified and a few extra.

Edited July 4, 2015 by Starwaster

[NathanKell]

skinThicknessFactor doesn't exist, it's what DRE used. KSP 1.0.4 uses skinMassPerArea (in kg/m^2)

[Starwaster]

skinThicknessFactor doesn't exist, it's what DRE used. KSP 1.0.4 uses skinMassPerArea (in kg/m^2)

Dammit I was on autopilot when I was hammering those out.... thanks for catching that.

Too all: Apologies for the delay in getting this out but it's been a bad couple of weeks around here and I wanted to spend more time going over things before releasing.

(I'm basically a full time volunteer for a feral cat shelter - by which I mean I live here and am on call 24/7 - and it's been a rough few weeks for our older cats)

Edited July 4, 2015 by Starwaster

[NathanKell]

Best wishes to you and all.

[pslytely psycho]

Starwaster, I am curious, when DRE is updated if it will be compatible with the RealHeat that was released today?

[EDIT] I see NathanKell just answered this in the RealHeat thread. Thank you guys for working so closely together!!

DRE, FAR, TAC, MJ, RT, SS, and EVE have been my 'must have' mods for a very long time. I would welcome a new addition to the must have list.

Too all: Apologies for the delay in getting this out but it's been a bad couple of weeks around here and I wanted to spend more time going over things before releasing.

Never apologize for having a life. And kudos to you for your volunteer work with the cat shelter. My rescued (formerly) feral cat Squeekie also says thanks!

Oh, and thanks for maintaining this amazing mod. (This applies to all of you modders, the time you volunteer here can never be appreciated enough)

Edited July 4, 2015 by pslytely psycho

[Gryphon]

Too all: Apologies for the delay in getting this out but it's been a bad couple of weeks around here and I wanted to spend more time going over things before releasing.

(I'm basically a full time volunteer for a feral cat shelter - by which I mean I live here and am on call 24/7 - and it's been a rough few weeks for our older cats)

No worries - cats before Kerbals.

[sumghai]

Too all: Apologies for the delay in getting this out but it's been a bad couple of weeks around here and I wanted to spend more time going over things before releasing.

(I'm basically a full time volunteer for a feral cat shelter - by which I mean I live here and am on call 24/7 - and it's been a rough few weeks for our older cats)

In case I haven't said this before, I very much appreciate all the hard work you've put into maintaining DRE, as well as helping out with SDHI SMS. Take all the time you need to make sure the next release is to your liking.

As we Kiwis would say, "You're a legend, mate."

[Hachiro]

Am I the only one who's been missing the 2.5m heatshield specifically for the MK 1-2 pod? If I remember correctly it was a flat black one that fit effectively flush with the pod, and could separate itself once fully entered?

[Starwaster]

Am I the only one who's been missing the 2.5m heatshield specifically for the MK 1-2 pod? If I remember correctly it was a flat black one that fit effectively flush with the pod, and could separate itself once fully entered?

Look under Structural.