[1.2] Real Solar System v12.0 Dec 8

[xrayfishx]

I'm having trouble recovering probes that land in water - they bob across the surface so much that the game seems to interpret them as being in flight, and the recover button appears and disappears.

Just keep clicking the place where the recover button would be and eventually you'll hit it.

[SFJackBauer]

That's why you have to follow every banking maneuver with banking on the opposite side to offset by the amount you banked the first time. That's how the shuttle did it right?

Yes. But it was a completely automated process. The trajectory was re-calculated by the onboard computers every two seconds. In only one mission (STS-2) the entire reentry was hand-flown, and by an extremely-proficient USAF test pilot which had flown the X-15 several times. In regular missions the pilot only got the stick once subsonic.

In KSP, a no-inputs re-entry is predictable, you still have to hand-fly to land. If you maneuver while hypersonic, you can overshoot/undershoot by hundreds of kilometers.

I've tried everything from banking to skipping to getting as low as possible as fast as possible to staying high up for as long as possible. No matter how I do it, when I fall below about 60k, things start burning up. Irl the shuttle starts getting some serious heating at about 120k, I get it at 80k (which is where the real shuttle is at its hottest afaik). Gonna try to edit the atmosphere myself I guess.

My experience has been the opposite, but I am using the latest FAR version. Flying 0º bank, 40º AOA (maximum drag attitude), at 80k altitude the vertical speed turns to positive and shoot me back, not enough to go back into space, but enough to stay in this cycle for so long I end up overshooting the base (my re-entry burn is 180º of longitude away from the landing site). What's your AOA at reentry? Because if its zero, then your sink rate will be too much and you will fall into the thicker air and burn up. Since I want to keep a fixed AOA, I am looking for another mechanism to modulate the vertical speed, for example using the body flap as a kind of airbrake.

In fact the shuttle reentry was much more complex than I could explain here - there are several info out there in the subject, but my favorite is this, page 236 onwards: http://www.nasa.gov/centers/johnson/pdf/584730main_Wings-ch4d-pgs226-241.pdf

[Zander]

while nathan is busy with MFS does anybody know how to fix the sky so its not black?

[Dirt_Merchant]

Increase atmosphereScaleHeight such that 0.000001 = e^(160/scaleHeight). Should be about 11.59. Note that this will mess up your pressures lower down, however--double the pressure at 10km and ~12x the pressure at 60km.

Or make an appropriate pressureCurve to model Earth's atmosphere. I'd love to switch to that, but I haven't had time to make it yet.

nate if you could quickly point me to how i should format the curve i'd be happy to attempt to add those values to the mod's cfgs. the data is out there, and i know how to read the charts, but i dont know how to properly add it to the mod.

[Bothersome]

while nathan is busy with MFS does anybody know how to fix the sky so its not black?

I've played around with changing some of the values in the .cfg file. But it didn't seem to have an effect. I think it's a problem in KSP itself. Hopefully Nathan can get at the change in a DLL somehow.

[NathanKell]

Yeah, I think it's just they changed how to access AtmosphereFromGround.

Dirt_Merchant: cool, thanks. The curve is in the format of a Unity AnimationCurve, that is, a cubic bezier that uses tangents rather than positions for the two middle control points of each segment. http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/464782/t-is-the-math-behind-animationcurveevaluate.html

My first experiment using tangents ended badly (solar panels) and I haven't had a chance to play more with them. You'll probably want to use either Unity's curve editor, or MuMechCurveEd ingame, to get a visual of how the curve looks.

[Starwaster]

Yeah, I think it's just they changed how to access AtmosphereFromGround.

Dirt_Merchant: cool, thanks. The curve is in the format of a Unity AnimationCurve, that is, a cubic bezier that uses tangents rather than positions for the two middle control points of each segment. http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/464782/t-is-the-math-behind-animationcurveevaluate.html

My first experiment using tangents ended badly (solar panels) and I haven't had a chance to play more with them. You'll probably want to use either Unity's curve editor, or MuMechCurveEd ingame, to get a visual of how the curve looks.

I was looking into it but I ran out of time because I'm going out of town for a few days. You'd think if they did anything significant that there would be error somewhere; either in the GUI we put in or when it initializes or something....

[NathanKell]

Fixed for .23

[Guest]

Finally. I'll try to re-start working on my Realism packs. Dang, there's so much to do now... Well, all that modding won't do itself.

Now, if we only had the smart gimbal updated...

[jrandom]

THE SKY IS BACK!

Thank you! A game like this requires immersion in the environment. Kerbin was just... just wrong without the visual representation of its atmosphere. Maybe it sounds silly, but this is super-important to me.

[NathanKell]

Dragon01: MFS is *almost* done. Also, careo just updated ExsurgentEngineering (see B9 thread) so that one is up to date.

Or try dtobi's new one from Space Shuttle Engines?

jrandom:

[StarLiner]

Dragon01: MFS is *almost* done. Also, careo just updated ExsurgentEngineering (see B9 thread) so that one is up to date.

Or try dtobi's new one from Space Shuttle Engines?

jrandom:

Thank you for all of your work! Might we see a realism mod pack for .23 one day?

[NathanKell]

Thanks!

Oh, absolutely. It's just waiting on my finishing getting MFS working. There are prerelease builds of MFS and Realism Overhaul (and Stretchy) in the MFS thread, but no promises your save won't break again with the final.

[Braindrool]

Love this mod, thanks for the .23 update!

[dtobi]

Finally. I'll try to re-start working on my Realism packs. Dang, there's so much to do now... Well, all that modding won't do itself.

Now, if we only had the smart gimbal updated...

I created a totally new gimballing implementation for space shuttle engines last week. It has a number of advantages over the smart gimbal plugin:

- Proper roll support on all axis (can be activated on demand)

- Proper part-based x and y limitations (even when the part is rotated)

- Tweakables: tweak gimballing speed and trim the x position (it does not change the limits)

If you don't need the enhancements you can also download the latest version of exsurgent engineer from careo git site.

[Guest]

Sounds great. I'll check it out. I've had roll control issues before (on the Atlas), maybe that would fix them. Trimming the engines would be useful, too. If this works on 4-way and 3-way symmetrical boosters, I could probably use it for absolutely everything.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Guest

[dtobi]

Sounds great. I'll check it out. I've had roll control issues before (on the Atlas), maybe that would fix them. Trimming the engines would be useful, too. If this works on 4-way and 3-way symmetrical boosters, I could probably use it for absolutely everything.

If you like it, I can factor it out, so that you only get the gimbal plugin without the rest.

[dtobi]

Sounds great. I'll check it out. I've had roll control issues before (on the Atlas), maybe that would fix them. Trimming the engines would be useful, too. If this works on 4-way and 3-way symmetrical boosters, I could probably use it for absolutely everything.

Right now the trimming is relative to the engines axis. I think what you would need is trimming relative to the vessel axis. I could implement the latter if there's is serious interest.

Cheers!

[Sparker]

I have just successfully finished a Mun landing mission with this mod. That was so awesome after playing with stock distances and sizes! I used a Proton-M copy to assemple the whole ship with ~20 ton pieces. The first two launches were lander and empty main stage, and it took about 5 or 6 launches to refuel the whole thing(full mass is a bit higher than 100 tons).

Refueling:

The craters are awesome, aren't they?

An almost KSP-style landing. Note the lack of the two engines.

Before departing home:

I can't even imagine how huge a rocket to Mars will be...

Thank you again for this mod!

Edited December 25, 2013 by Sparker

[Guest]

I have just successfully finished a Mun landing mission with this mod. That was so awesome after playing with stock distances and sizes! I used a Proton-M copy to assemple the whole ship with ~20 ton pieces. The first two launches were lander and empty main stage, and it took about 5 or 6 launches to refuel the whole thing(full mass is a bit higher than 100 tons).

Refueling:

http://imageshack.us/a/img34/1585/5rw8.th.png

http://imageshack.us/a/img856/281/w87d.th.png

The craters are awesome, aren't they?

http://imageshack.us/a/img17/1852/2weq.th.png

An almost KSP-style landing. Note the lack of the two engines.

http://imageshack.us/a/img849/6401/5rty.th.png

Before departing home:

http://imageshack.us/a/img838/6328/8un5.th.png

I can't even imagine how huge a rocket to Mars will be...

Thank you again for this mod!

If you want a real challenge try it as a "one shot" launch, it can be mind boggling at first but very educational

[Sparker]

Yes, I'm trying to design a rocket like Saturn-5 or N1 in payload capacity to launch the lunar ship in one piece. I'll repeat the mission when the rocket is finished.

[xtremespino]

This looks like a great mod, I have got to try it.

[Goozeman]

I have just successfully finished a Mun landing mission with this mod. That was so awesome after playing with stock distances and sizes! I used a Proton-M copy to assemple the whole ship with ~20 ton pieces. The first two launches were lander and empty main stage, and it took about 5 or 6 launches to refuel the whole thing(full mass is a bit higher than 100 tons).

Refueling:

http://imageshack.us/a/img34/1585/5rw8.th.png

http://imageshack.us/a/img856/281/w87d.th.png

The craters are awesome, aren't they?

http://imageshack.us/a/img17/1852/2weq.th.png

An almost KSP-style landing. Note the lack of the two engines.

http://imageshack.us/a/img849/6401/5rty.th.png

Before departing home:

http://imageshack.us/a/img838/6328/8un5.th.png

I can't even imagine how huge a rocket to Mars will be...

Thank you again for this mod!

From the studies I've read, a mission to Mars with 4 people would be on the order of 500-750mt. Using a 950s nuclear engine. Not something to take lightly. That's still over 4 launches with a Saturn-V class launch vehicle. Obviously, it could be done for less in KSP because you can cram 4 kerbals in a kerbal can and call it good, but still.

[lyndonguitar]

so, i want to play with real planets, but I wouldn't want the real scales. anyway I can play with real solar system but with kerbol scales?

is there Universe Replacer version?

[NathanKell]

1. Nobody's made it yet. But you can!

(All values are configurable in the cfgs)

2. Not sure what you mean by "is there Universe Replacer version"