[1.2] Real Solar System v12.0 Dec 8

[etheoma]

I don't know weather its a feature or bug but my ship is getting ripped apart in the Eve atmosphere.

I'm trying to fly down a SSTO made with interstellar and the new spaceship plus parts and my heating with Deadly re-entry is like -10 - 50 when I start getting random kicks from the atmosphere breaking the joints in my ship.

The reason why I ask if its a feature any ship trying to descend to the real Venus would be jolted apart due to the thick sulfur dioxide clouds so as you hit one at 7kmps yeah thats going to be a bad day for you. But it is really annoying and if it is a feature I really really don't like it.

Also the atmosphere of Duna and Eve both seem to change the centre of mass to centre of lift because on kerbin throughout the atmosphere at all speeds my ship was just about stable with the ability to push it beyond if you really push it.

But now it has to pitch toward the prograde maker rather than away because the centre of mass or centre of lift has changed, probably the centre of lift.

Using FAR btw.

Edited November 22, 2014 by etheoma

[Felger]

I don't know weather its a feature or bug but my ship is getting ripped apart in the Eve atmosphere.

I'm trying to fly down a SSTO made with interstellar and the new spaceship plus parts and my heating with Deadly re-entry is like -10 - 50 when I start getting random kicks from the atmosphere breaking the joints in my ship.

The reason why I ask if its a feature any ship trying to descend to the real Venus would be jolted apart due to the thick sulfur dioxide clouds so as you hit one at 7kmps yeah thats going to be a bad day for you. But it is really annoying and if it is a feature I really really don't like it.

Very likely a feature. If you're flying a ship with Interstellar parts, very likely you have the delta-V to control your re-entry profile and come in at a very shallow angle and bleed off velocity very slowly. Perhaps do a few skip re-entries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skip_reentry

[Guest]

FAR simulates atmosphere composition, so yeah, aerodynamics change. There should probably be some kind of setting in aero analysis for generating stability data for other planets.

[Felbourn]

Is there a setting I need to change to stop getting this reload EVERY time I start KSP? It was not happening until I added a couple new launch sites, and now it happens every time I run.

[NathanKell]

If you've updated RSS to 8.1+, instead of hanging on the black LOADING.... screen until all loading is done, it now shows you its progress.

[Felbourn]

If you've updated RSS to 8.1+, instead of hanging on the black LOADING.... screen until all loading is done, it now shows you its progress.

Oh... so it was always doing this but now I can see it because I have upgraded. Iiiiiiii see. Thanks.

[NathanKell]

Yep! Doing it this way should also help because it gives garbage collection a chance to run between image loads.

In other news

Thanks to sarbian's awesome work, RSS now supports DDS for all textres. I just need to test a bit more and a release should be ready.

[etheoma]

Very likely a feature. If you're flying a ship with Interstellar parts, very likely you have the delta-V to control your re-entry profile and come in at a very shallow angle and bleed off velocity very slowly. Perhaps do a few skip re-entries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skip_reentry

No actually I'm at 95 - 99km up descending at 2 - 8ms travelling at 6800/ms to 7100/ms that high up nothing should be completely ripping my plane apart at those speeds.

This is with aerodynamic failures disabled and deadly re-entry multiplier set to 0 and I'm only encountering 0.1G-0.2G until randomly the G meter spikes into the red out of nowhere when I am only descending at as I said 2 - 8ms so the pressure should not change any where near so drastically.

After the spike everything goes back to normal apart from the fact that my ship is in pieces and spiralling out of control.

It is almost like I hit an invisible wall and broke through it which also broke my ship. Unless there is an ultrasonic sound barrier I am unaware of.

Edited November 22, 2014 by etheoma

[Starwaster]

No actually I'm at 95 - 99km up descending at 2 - 8ms travelling at 6800/ms to 7100/ms that high up nothing should be completely ripping my plane apart at those speeds.

This is with aerodynamic failures disabled and deadly re-entry multiplier set to 0 and I'm only encountering 0.1G-0.2G until randomly the G meter spikes into the red out of nowhere when I am only descending at as I said 2 - 8ms so the pressure should not change any where near so drastically.

After the spike everything goes back to normal apart from the fact that my ship is in pieces and spiralling out of control.

It is almost like I hit an invisible wall and broke through it which also broke my ship. Unless there is an ultrasonic sound barrier I am unaware of.

Just to be sure:

• Which Deadly Reentry multiplier are you referring to exactly?
  
• Is this the Deadly Reentry 6.2.1 beta?
  
• Are any parts being destroyed or are they all separating cleanly without part destruction?
  

I took apart the Eve pressure curve data in the Unity curve editor and it looks fine. Temperature curve does have a bit of a spike/fluctuation from 96-100 km which would affect density. I don't know how severe an effect that would actually inflict in FAR but the potential is there I suppose.

If you don't mind some config editing, try replacing Eve's temperature curve with the following and see if you still have trouble. (smoothed out the area from 96-100 km. If that was based on real data then now... it's not. Or maybe there was an error in that data, I have no idea. But this smooths out the spike)

key = 0 462.15 0 -7.71
key = 2 446.73 -7.71 -7.71
key = 4 431.31 -7.71 -7.71
key = 6 415.89 -7.71 -7.71
key = 8 400.47 -7.71 -7.71
key = 10 385.05 -7.71 -7.75
key = 12 369.55 -7.75 -7.75
key = 14 354.05 -7.75 -7.75
key = 16 338.55 -7.75 -7.75
key = 18 323.05 -7.75 -7.75
key = 20 307.55 -7.75 -8.38
key = 22 290.79 -8.38 -8.38
key = 24 274.03 -8.38 -8.38
key = 26 257.27 -8.38 -8.38
key = 28 240.51 -8.38 -8.38
key = 30 223.75 -8.38 -7.93
key = 32 207.89 -7.93 -7.93
key = 34 192.03 -7.93 -7.93
key = 36 176.17 -7.93 -7.93
key = 38 160.31 -7.93 -7.93
key = 40 144.45 -7.93 -6.71
key = 42 131.03 -6.71 -6.71
key = 44 117.61 -6.71 -6.71
key = 46 104.19 -6.71 -6.71
key = 48 90.77 -6.71 -6.71
key = 50 77.35 -6.71 -8.77
key = 52 59.81 -8.77 -8.77
key = 54 42.27 -8.77 -8.77
key = 56 24.73 -8.77 -8.77
key = 58 7.19 -8.77 -8.77
key = 60 -10.35 -8.77 -3.3
key = 62 -16.95 -3.3 -3.3
key = 64 -23.55 -3.3 -3.3
key = 66 -30.15 -3.3 -3.3
key = 68 -36.75 -3.3 -3.3
key = 70 -43.35 -3.3 -3.27
key = 72 -49.89 -3.27 -3.27
key = 74 -56.43 -3.27 -3.27
key = 76 -62.97 -3.27 -3.27
key = 78 -69.51 -3.27 -3.27
key = 80 -76.05 -3.27 -2.77
key = 82 -81.59 -2.77 -2.77
key = 84 -87.13 -2.77 -2.77
key = 86 -92.67 -2.77 -2.77
key = 88 -98.21 -2.77 -2.77
key = 90 -103.75 -2.77 0.45
key = 92 -102.85 0.45 0.45
key = 94 -101.95 0.45 0.45
key = 95.9916 -100.9254 0.4959106 0.4959106
key = 98.00589 -100.1489 0.1907349 0.1907349
key = 99.97812 -100.3879 -0.4959106 -0.4959106
key = 102 -102.43 -1.59 -1.59
key = 104 -105.61 -1.59 -1.59
key = 106 -108.79 -1.59 -1.59
key = 108 -111.97 -1.59 -1.59
key = 110 -115.15 -1.59 0.1
key = 112 -114.95 0.1 0.1
key = 114 -114.75 0.1 0.1
key = 116 -114.55 0.1 0.1
key = 118 -114.35 0.1 0.1
key = 120 -114.15 0.1 0.78
key = 122 -112.59 0.78 0.78
key = 124 -111.03 0.78 0.78
key = 126 -109.47 0.78 0.78
key = 128 -107.91 0.78 0.78
key = 130 -106.35 0.78 0.94
key = 132 -104.47 0.94 0.94
key = 134 -102.59 0.94 0.94
key = 136 -100.71 0.94 0.94
key = 138 -98.83 0.94 0.94

[Tyrador]

Ok, I found that i've got x64, however my KSP version is x32 and I unchecked 'use x64' option in launcher. RSS still does not load, what can I do about it? Thank you for your help.

[Overfloater]

Hey i found a bug... Phobos & Deimos (Bop & Gilly) seem to be un-landable

The vessel will go about 2 meters below the terrain and then go boom

(kerbals go "poof")

[Starman4308]

Currently I tested RSS v8.2.1 the first time. I'm a bit surprised about how huge a rocket needed to be to get me anywhere.

By now I managed to get to the mun and back...to mun orbit, so far. The Rocket in use seems somewhat largish, even somewhat offscale compared to a real moon rocket, and I dont think I've builded it in a rather unefficient manner.

Am I wrong or is the usual engine power and efficiency don't fit the RSS Mod conditions somehow ?

Greetings Martin

If you don't want the full Realism Overhaul experience (I don't, at least not until the RO career mode project gets going), there are ways to do RO-lite by installing components of RO. The big ones: Real Fuels (changes tank and engine masses to be far more realistic, gives more variety in liquid fuels), some config for Real Fuels (I enjoy Raptor's stockalike configs), FAR (makes the souposphere much easier to deal with), Procedural Parts (to help build stuff big), and a large parts pack like KW Rocketry (make sure it is compatible with your RF engine config). Just be sure to read the descriptions of these mods, particularly Real Fuels, or you will be in for nasty surprises.

There are other ones I like, such as Deadly Reentry, Real Chutes, and TAC Life Support. If you're running 32-bit Windows, I suggest Active Texture Management to help keep stuff within the 4 GB limit imposed by 32-bit.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Starman4308

[VonFrank]

Yep! Doing it this way should also help because it gives garbage collection a chance to run between image loads.

In other news

Thanks to sarbian's awesome work, RSS now supports DDS for all textres. I just need to test a bit more and a release should be ready.

So what does that mean for RAM usage? Will it be reduced enough to allow the x8192 textures on 32 bit?

[Felbourn]

[Hattivat]

^Nice! <10 chars>

[Felger]

http://youtu.be/SZeoHfONUxA

You know, if you'd like to contribute some of those part configs to Realism Overhaul, we'd be more than happy to take 'em. Also, you can get rid of the non RO tag on the parts by simply tagging the part with %RSSROConfig = True

[Felbourn]

You know, if you'd like to contribute some of those part configs to Realism Overhaul, we'd be more than happy to take 'em. Also, you can get rid of the non RO tag on the parts by simply tagging the part with %RSSROConfig = True

For the most part these exist already. I just wanted to do it myself because it's part of how I have fun, but I did notice various engine configs that looked almost identical to what I was making, etc.

Yea, the RSSROConfig is missing on some things just because as far as I can tell it's only visual. The parts seem to work fine with or without it, so I was not always diligent about making sure I tagged my parts. Am I right, and it's just a visual reminder kind of thing?

Anyway, everything I do is in a git repo.

https://github.com/Felbourn/History

Also: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/99452-Project-Alexandria-a-history-of-spaceflight-done-in-Real-Solar-System

I have my time more than filled trying to keep my three YouTube series going, but if anyone wants anything I've made, they are in git.

[Felger]

Yep, RSSROConfig is just visual. Also, depending on how fast you're planning on moving through history, Component Space Shuttle is planned to be supported Soon^TM.

[Felbourn]

Yep, RSSROConfig is just visual. Also, depending on how fast you're planning on moving through history, Component Space Shuttle is planned to be supported Soon^TM.

That would be very nice! I once redid a CSS for RSS well before it was "ready." I can do it again if needed. I highly doubt I can make it past a few years per real time month, though. I'm sure CSS will be ready before me this time.

I think I posted this once before in this thread. (It's pretty old now.) This is the CSS I am referring to:

[Felbourn]

NEED MATH SECOND OPINION

I'm planning out my Exploer 1 launch: http://history.nasa.gov/sputnik/expinfo.html

From those mass values, I get this...

Stages Only (lbs) wet/dry

1   62700   9600
2    1020    490
3     280    140
4      80     31.5

Stages Only (kg) wet/dry

1   28440   4354
2     463    222
3     127     64
4      36     14

All Stages (kg) wet/dry

stage wet    dry  avg isp   dV
1   29066   4980   250    4326 (note: I used g=9.81)
2     626    386   235*   1117
3     163    100   235    1135
4      36     14   235    2149

*maybe being very generous on these early booster stages.

Total deltaV = 8728

That's not enough to orbit. What am I missing?

[tmikesecrist3]

actually thats close to the delta v you need to get into, a low incantation orbit. remember orbital speed is only about 7k

[Felbourn]

actually thats close to the delta v you need to get into, a low incantation orbit. remember orbital speed is only about 7k

I thought these charts showed the minimums: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta-v_budget

Explorer 1 was 358 by 2550 km. By my math I get roughly 8543 m/s needed for the orbit, minus best case 463 for planet rotation, plus gravity drag that I thought was at least 1000 m/s and atmo drag that I thought was at least 300 to 500. That's anywhere from 9300 to 9600 for the Explorer 1 orbit. Still not sure where I'm going wrong.

[Hattivat]

Dry stage masses (especially stage 2 and 3) look suspiciously high, as if they included the mass of the stages remaining above

[NathanKell]

You need ~9300 vacuum delta V for LEO from the Cape for a 300x300 orbit (roughly!). However, Felbourn, you're using an average Isp rather than the vacuum Isp for the first stage. Vacuum Isp for Lox/Hydyne on the A7 engine is 265s. That takes you up to 4586 on the core. Next, the Baby Sergeants are indeed 235s in vacuum. I have 130kg for the 3x cluster, wet, otherwise the weights check. You can cross-check component masses with RO's FASA configs, which are correct.

You might be able to squeak by on ~9000 for a very low-perigee orbit, which you should just make. Also note that gravity losses will be quite low because you launch directly to apogee and then fire your solids at apogee, so time-to-orbit is a good few minutes shorter than many launches.

Edited November 23, 2014 by NathanKell

[Felbourn]

Dry stage masses (especially stage 2 and 3) look suspiciously high, as if they included the mass of the stages remaining above

Yes, the lower stages need to carry the upper stages.

If you have a two stage rocket like this:

stage 1: wet 100 & dry 50

stage 2: wet 30 & dry 15

The full rocket mass is 130 at liftoff. At burnout #1 the mass will be 80. You'll decouple dry stage 1 and be at 30, then burnout #2 is 15.

Likewise the wiki says the lower stage 1 was 28440 but it had to carry the upper stages as well, which were 463+127+36=626. You add them all up and get 29066. The NASA page says 29030 so this is close.

So Explorer stage 1 is ~29000 at liftoff, and then at burnout #1 it's the dry stage 1 plus wet stages 2+3+4 which is 4980. We decouple stage 1 and lose 4354, dropping us to 626. We burn out again at 386, drop 222 more, and so on until we're the 14 kg payload.