[1.2] Real Solar System v12.0 Dec 8

[NathanKell]

Ferram: Ah, right. Yeah, I've been using solids or decent-TWR uppers for that (like, Titan II-class upper stage, TWR 1->8 or so). When you do it real-life style, i.e. a weak upper stage designed for a payload lighter than your GTO payload, it's tough. (Delta/DCSS/Centaur, I'm looking at you).

That said, if you're willing to incur the gravity losses, launch at a higher angle?

[jrandom]

Thanks, and one more GSO question. With RemoteTech, how do I launch my first GSO satellite, since Hohhman transfer can't be performed due to the lost connection?

I was never able to pull off an unmanned first launch, so I put up my first three satellites using a manned launch (8 kerbals) and the remote guidance unit. After that I was able to get the next three (polar orbit) up with an unmanned launch.

[Captain_Party]

I just waited till apokee was resting directly above the space centre. Went straight into GTO. Now I have an 8-sat comm network.

EDIT: I'm an idiot.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Captain_Party

[dlrk]

Does the 10x Kerbol rescale work for .23? I prefer an upscaled Kerbal system to the real solar system

[NathanKell]

RSS cfg files are pretty much backwards and forwards compatible from the day I added cfg reading, so yes.

[dlrk]

Sounds good, (:

What tech tree do you recommend with RSS/10x?

[Ralathon]

Sounds good, (:

What tech tree do you recommend with RSS/10x?

I've been using the standard tech tree. It is rather brutal, but doable. With clever and minimalist building you can put a manned craft into orbit with tier 3 tech. I've pretty much unlocked the whole tree by now and I'm gearing up for a manned Duna mission.

One bug I'd like to report though: I've been working on a mun base with ExtraPlanetary Launchpads and kethane. But for some reason the game keeps thinking that my launchpad is about to crash, instead of landed. This bug occurs with quite a few other parts as well, mostly things without landing legs. I suspect it is a result of the same bug that causes you to sink slightly into the surface and bounce around like crazy when splashed down. Surface detection seems a lot less accurate with RSS.

[dlrk]

Thanks, also I'm trying to figure out how to calculate stationary/synchronous orbit altitude using the info the cfg file. How do I do this? What units are used?

[Ralathon]

Thanks, also I'm trying to figure out how to calculate stationary/synchronous orbit altitude using the info the cfg file. How do I do this? What units are used?

Units are all standard SI units. So distances are always in meters, mass is always in kg and time is always in seconds.

To calculate the period of an orbit you only need the semimajor axis of your orbit (The average of apoapsis and periapsis) and the mass of the body you orbit. It's related via:

T = 2*pi*sqrt(a³/(M*G))

where a is your semimajor axis, M is the mass of the body you orbit and G is the gravitational constant. For a synchronous orbit you need to match the rotational period to the orbital period. So you flip the formula around to:

a = ((0.5*T/pi)²*M*G)^1/3

Note that this gives you your semi major axis in relation to the center of the body you orbit. So to switch it to the height system KSP uses you need to substract the radius of the body.

[dlrk]

Thanks, looks good

[Captain_Party]

For any newbies that are out there, wondering how the hell they might able to get more than 1000kg into orbit without building a unrealistic monstrosity, look no further.

The Atlas V - 541. This bad boy can reliably get 5000kg into 200km orbit, and 2500kg into GTO. An absolute beast of a rocket for it's size. All credit for this goes to asmi, for inspiring me with his Atlas V - 501 design. PM me for the .craft if you want it, but it requires KW Rocketry, StretchySRB, RFS, and BobCats Soviet Engines pack. Also, it includes my own, hand rolled RL-10A (basically a .cfg edited RD-146, changed so it's more like the RL-10A) for use in the under powered but extremely capable Centaur Stage, seen below, nestled in the fairing base.

UPDATE: This is whithout a doubt, the finest LV I have ever made. I just amazingly got 7t into orbit! Thats more than any LV I've made for RSS

Edited January 2, 2014 by Captain_Party

[Razorcane]

I hate to brag about anything, but...I did my own Atlas V and it flies perfectly, despite having asymmetrical boosters.

Atlas V 401-431

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This thing can send 6900-15400kg payloads to LKO, or 2800-7200kg to GTO.

Atlas V 501-551

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This one is relatively the same thing, but it allows for bigger payloads. Allows for up to five SRBs to push even heavier loads into orbit.

And just for kicks, I made these two as well:

Antares, sends 3.5t to LKO. 2nd stage is an SRB, just like the real Antares.

Delta II 7925. Not my best looking rocket, but it can still send unmanned probes/rovers to the mun. It can send a little over 1 ton to GTO as well.

Edit: Also, in my .23 save, I did my first docking from IVA, and had a great view of Kerbin from a 28.6 degree inclination.

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Edited January 2, 2014 by Razorcane

[Captain_Party]

Really cool razorcane, see your using Bahamoutos RD-180... I tried to use that, didn't think if the conic tanks. I'm thinking of making the whole atlas family, making then as close looking as possible, not the exact dimensions and stuff, but aesthetics and give them good size payload limits.

[Zander]

I was thinking it would be a good next step to try to bring better textures to the now blury RSS planets. Of course there is an 8K texture size limit problem which must be solved. For me personally Kearth being blurry at low orbit which is where you spend most of your time (after the VAB) while playing this game is the most pressing issue.

[Guest]

All that makes me want to dig up the old ULA pack Atlas and reconfigure it to RSS.

[Razorcane]

Really cool razorcane, see your using Bahamoutos RD-180... I tried to use that, didn't think if the conic tanks. I'm thinking of making the whole atlas family, making then as close looking as possible, not the exact dimensions and stuff, but aesthetics and give them good size payload limits.

Actually, no I'm using Bobcat's engines. The RD-180 for the Atlas V, and the NK33 for the Antares, modified of course. Those things covering the engines are merely empty stretchy tanks designed as shrouds.

[Captain_Party]

In my understanding Dragon, that wasn't actually very good... I played around with it... extremely buggy.

[Razorcane]

In my understanding Dragon, that wasn't actually very good... I played around with it... extremely buggy.

They fixed a lot of the bugs. It flew really well even with the asymmetrical boosters. The only one that had problems was the Delta IV.

[NathanKell]

Razorcane: Dang, nice!

Do you have a full album of that Apollo-Skylab mission? I want to put it in the OP.

[Razorcane]

Razorcane: Dang, nice!

Do you have a full album of that Apollo-Skylab mission? I want to put it in the OP.

I don't, but it's still in orbit, and I need to send up another crew, so maybe I could take pictures of that. What exactly do you want?

[HoneyFox]

Ferram: Ah, right. Yeah, I've been using solids or decent-TWR uppers for that (like, Titan II-class upper stage, TWR 1->8 or so). When you do it real-life style, i.e. a weak upper stage designed for a payload lighter than your GTO payload, it's tough. (Delta/DCSS/Centaur, I'm looking at you).

That said, if you're willing to incur the gravity losses, launch at a higher angle?

i've designed a Delta IV M+ (5,4) and with the upper stage having only 110kN of thrust to push a 12t+ payload, it's just torture... For the first hundred seconds of time just after the first stage decoupled, the rocket has to keep around 80 deg pitch angle to avoid reentry into atmosphere. I really wonder how ULA rockets do this with 12t+ payload in RL... It's almost impossible...

Edited January 2, 2014 by HoneyFox

[Razorcane]

i've designed a Delta IV M+ (5,4) and with the upper stage having only 120kN of thrust to push a 12t+ payload, it's just torture... For the first hundred seconds of time just after the first stage decoupled, the rocket has to keep around 80 deg pitch angle to avoid reentry into atmosphere. I really wonder how ULA rockets do this with 12t+ payload in RL... It's almost impossible...

They actually dip back down before getting into orbit. If you watch any of the Atlas V launches, you'll see that their altitude starts going down eventually, which means they've passed apigee. Though, to be fair, parking orbit on Earth is really high, over 300k for manned launches, and only slightly less for unmanned launches. So, maybe you should consider going higher. My parking orbits are 328k or so, and I never have trouble getting anything into orbit.

Also, if you need tips on doing station missions, I have a bit of advice. Try to launch at a time when your apoapsis will be roughly equivalent to the station's, and you periapsis is lower than the station's, so that you can coast around the planet a few times to catch up to it. That's how I'm doing all of my station missions, particularly my ISS missions(Yes, I'm building the ISS).

[NathanKell]

Razorcane: just lots of pretty pictures to show off the mod, basically. And get a sense of the size rocket you need to push a (part-fueled like real life, presumably) CSM stack into LEO.

HoneyFox: IIRC (ask asmi, he knows about this more than I) they loft the thing super high and circularize well after apogee.

[HoneyFox]

Razorcane: just lots of pretty pictures to show off the mod, basically. And get a sense of the size rocket you need to push a (part-fueled like real life, presumably) CSM stack into LEO.

HoneyFox: IIRC (ask asmi, he knows about this more than I) they loft the thing super high and circularize well after apogee.

My usual orbit for launching is at pretty low (<160km) altitude and my thought is: this allows the 1st stage of Delta IV to achieve higher horizontal velocity, thus reduces the acceleration of gravity (due to centrifugal effect) i need to compensate by pitching up the 2nd stage.

But perhaps lofting is another way, it does give more time for the 2nd stage to accelerate before falling back into atmosphere... I might need to do some flight test to see. but the overall dV requirement might be a bit higher I guess.

[ferram4]

I've launched things using a Delta IV M and a Delta IV M+ 5.4... yeah, you need to hop up to ~350 km at least to get some of those really heavy payloads up there. And for reference, I was doing this to send stuff on a GTO, so I was able to get away with pushing apoapsis really high while burning to raise periapsis. Trust me, you want to let the first stage throw it high more than send it sideways compared to higher TWR stages, since that gives it time to get into orbit. On one occasion the second stage actually dipped back below 105 km into the upper atmosphere for a bit. Fun times.