This game is for *massive* nerds

[Crush]

The career mode needs proper introduction.

When you know what to do, it is really easy to unlock the first tech tree nodes just with research around the KSC and the surrounding. Unfortunately, a newbie does not know that. There needs to be some guidance. Something that tells the user which are currently the low-hanging fruits and how to pick them.

[Ralathon]

AND NO I don't use any mods! Tryed few & imo they made ksp boring.

Why do you think mods make the game boring? Sure, there are the mods that add engines with more thrust than a mainsail and higher ISP than an ion engine that completely trivialize the game. But to lob awesome mods like KAS, Kethane, Deadly Reentry and SCANsat under the same roof is doing them a disservice.

[vexx32]

Some of them are really good mods, yes, but that does not mean I or others want to use them. For me, stock is plenty, and adding a whole bunch of mods just ends up making things difficult to navigate and overly confusing. Also, I would hate to grow dependent on any mod and be unable to play KSP for several days or up to a few weeks after each release because I had to wait for the mod to be updated. Now, as a result, that tends to make the game pretty damn difficult, especially if you're like me and don't often bother doing any real math. I kind of like the game that way

As to whether they make the game boring... well, that's really a matter of personal preference, is it not?

[TUFOM]

Why do you think mods make the game boring? Sure, there are the mods that add engines with more thrust than a mainsail and higher ISP than an ion engine that completely trivialize the game. But to lob awesome mods like KAS, Kethane, Deadly Reentry and SCANsat under the same roof is doing them a disservice.

Because when I tryed mods part list was so messy It took time to find what I want. Tryed Mechjeb... what is point to have autopilot in this awesome game. Tryed Novapunch & that made things far too easy. Tryed about 20 mods total & desided to remove them all.

Vexx32 stated my opinion almost perfectly. =)

[Caelib]

Hey, he kinda has a point here. I really dislike that he somehow felt like insulting people to get his point across, but right now, if you are a new player like me, unless you also love seeking documentation online like I do, the game is seriously unapproachable. Approachable isn't the same as easy btw (I love extra credits)

Lets say than without the wikis and videos, I wouldn't even know you needed to turn to get into orbit (let alone turn at 10km)

Since the player-made tutorials and articles are great, maybe they should be integrated in game.

There are a few in-game tutorials now and they are helpful with the basics. Everything you need to know to play the game is on Youtube

[fatfluffycat]

I can't live without mods, how else do I make rockets/stations look like the real thing without looking weird and ugly?

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

I can't live without mods, how else do I make rockets/stations look like the real thing without looking weird and ugly?

Because Kerbals are weird and ugly?

[DChurchill]

Because Kerbals are weird and ugly?

It doesn't feel like their ships should be sleek, does it?

I love the look of some of the popular parts packs, but they don't look "kerbal" to me, so I don't really want to use them. It's an odd attitude, I suppose, but it is what it is.

I use a ton of mods, but generally the ones that add functionality that's not there with stock. KAS, MJ, MapSat, etc.

Edited November 5, 2013 by DChurchill

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

When I play Kerbal... I turn Kerbal

It is hard to turn back though once in a while

[John FX]

It's a good solution, but if they make it now, it'll only have to be re-done every update or two, which just takes valuable time away from development and pre-release testing. If it's going to exist, it's going to have to be made and maintained by players for now, I think.

Fair enough. I`m with you that an unfinished game has its tutorials on Youtube. Once a release happens then I would expect tutorials n stuff but not yet.

[z26]

There are a few in-game tutorials now and they are helpful with the basics. Everything you need to know to play the game is on Youtube

1. Those are good, but they dont even explain how to get from ground to orbit, the first, most basic and essential thing you need to do ever.

2. You dont expect your average game to absolutely need you to read walktroughts to be somewhat playable. The game being constantly updated is an understandable reason for it not having complete, but if so, the devs should at least briefly explain in game than since it is in alpha, the tutorials cant be complete yet and there is a lot of things you need go look up yourself.

3. There is such things as known unknowns and unknowns unknowns. For example, before I even knew wasdqe could rotate parts in the rocket editor, I thought the game simply had a limitation on how you could stick things together, so I didnt bothered searching about it.

[Geoff-AU]

Tryed Mechjeb... what is point to have autopilot in this awesome game.

I held off using Mechjeb until I reached the point where I was relatively comfortable doing it all myself. That means: getting to orbit, docking, transferring to another planet, landing (still not brilliant at this!). This basically constitutes an understanding of the game physics. MJ then becomes a way of efficiently doing what I know I can do already, allowing me to get further in the game doing bigger stuff like a Jool or Eeloo mission. Yes, I could screw around with a maneuver node timing and Delta-v until I got a good transfer, using some of the wonderful tools people have created on the net, but having a computerised assist speeds up gameplay a lot.

If you use it as a helper before you understand the underlying game principles then yes, it would make things boring because you've skipped an objective of the game (learning how the physics works). If you use it after that point then you're only skipping things you already know.

The great part about mods is they're a personal choice. It lets you customise the game to get the experience you want from it.

[Exothermos]

The game just needs a little documentation to flatten the ridiculous learning curve for beginners. A few more tutorials or a basic "flight school" with some of the little tricks we all take for granted would help newbies tremendously.

When I introduce this game to friends they all have the same questions. At first, in sandbox mode, there is tons of questions about what parts to use and how to use them. I usually shrug that off and say "I don't know. Slap it together and see what happens." Great fun is always had at this point and that attitude is great for exploring the parts. Some of the parts are not described well, so are a little mystifying to the uninitiated. Then the inevitable questions about orbital mechanics crop up and these are far more difficult discover in game without rote explanation. Some of the concepts are just too obscure or counter-intuitive to find out with trial and error. The basic concept of an orbit is hard to grasp the first time you ever really think about it. "so if i want to go lower I have to slow down? Then why are things going faster down there?" Little tricks like burning until a good apoapsis is achieved and then doing a circularization burn are hard to discover in game. And good luck figuring out Rendezvous and Docking without help. Three quarters of the difficulty of this game happens before you ever make it to the Mun.

And Science is very poorly documented right now ( I know that is changing). It took me a few flights before I could figure out the basic rules behind collecting science. And I really didn't "get it" until reading the Wiki. I know everyone should just look at the wiki, but there should be some in-game documentation too.

Edit: I think little one time statements in the mission summaries in career mode would be useful if they hint strongly at things. "Hmm.. looks like we are using electrical power during our flights. Don't want to keep Jeb in the dark!" "The Scientists sure would appreciate some more data on this flight. Better write stuff down!" Stuff like that. Then tutorials would be less important.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Exothermos

[AlamoVampire]

Because when I tryed mods part list was so messy It took time to find what I want. Tryed Mechjeb... what is point to have autopilot in this awesome game. Tryed Novapunch & that made things far too easy. Tryed about 20 mods total & desided to remove them all.

Vexx32 stated my opinion almost perfectly. =)

1. Mechjeb is an awesome mod that gives players a HUGE wealth of information on their craft. Weight, dV stats, and so on. MJ is more than autopilot. Also, MJ is a wonderful tool for when you have 10+ minute burns that you would have to otherwise babysit the entire time.

2. Novapunch is a wicked mod as it gives you MORE parts to work with. If you want to limit yourself Tufom, that is your deal, but, those 2 mods you directly named are personal staples in my game because they, for me, add both more options to build with and fly with, and a wealth of information that makes doing things that much easier.

Also, to be 100% fair, MJ is also one helluva teaching tool. It taught me how to properly rendezvous and dock a space craft. W/out it, the below station would NOT have been possible:

[Specialist290]

It's a good solution, but if they make it now, it'll only have to be re-done every update or two, which just takes valuable time away from development and pre-release testing. If it's going to exist, it's going to have to be made and maintained by players for now, I think.

Quoting vexx's statement, since the issue of documentation has come up again.

I happen to personally agree that adequate documentation is one of the game's few weak points, but documentation takes time and effort itself to write, and SQUAD may have other priorities that take precedence in their development cycle. That said, until such a time as SQUAD sees fit to ship the game with a manual or a more robust tutorial system, I personally will strive to encourage the community to create quality tutorials and player aids and list the best of those on the Drawing Board

Shameless plug, etc.

[Seret]

I held off using Mechjeb until I reached the point where I was relatively comfortable doing it all myself.

I tend to do the same. I added it to one of the later tech nodes in career, so that I only had it once I'd developed the unmanned tech branch sufficiently. I felt this simulated the Kerbals having to do it seat-of-pants until developing the technology to automate things. It really helps make the tech tree feel like a progression, instead of just shopping for parts.

[TUFOM]

1. Mechjeb is an awesome mod that gives players a HUGE wealth of information on their craft. Weight, dV stats, and so on. MJ is more than autopilot. Also, MJ is a wonderful tool for when you have 10+ minute burns that you would have to otherwise babysit the entire time.

2. Novapunch is a wicked mod as it gives you MORE parts to work with. If you want to limit yourself Tufom, that is your deal, but, those 2 mods you directly named are personal staples in my game because they, for me, add both more options to build with and fly with, and a wealth of information that makes doing things that much easier.

1. To be honest I have still mechjeb installed for dv stats. 2. I rather wait Squad to develop moar parts. Krag's Planet Factory seems to be mod for me, more to explore, gonna give it a try. =)

[Leatherneck]

One thing I still haven't got my head around is gravity boosts. I've seen Scott Manley videos on how to zip around the solar system without using any fuel and I just can't figure out how he strings them together. You basically have to approach a planet at a 90 degree angle to get a decent boost (theoretical maximum is a 180 degree slingshot but that would be quite difficult to pull off). I've had a few happy coincidences in the Jool system that would have sent me to interstellar space but that wasn't my goal at the time..

I've only done something similar between Kerbin, Mun, and Minmus, but I slingshot around. Catch the SOI on a burn, do a course correction to get a change in orbit, then use the gravity to pull my course in the direction I need. I've found I need a good window to do stuff like that. Best way is how NASA did the Apollo missions to the moon, doing a "Figure-8" without obviously going back and forth.

Also, what side of the planet you catch makes a difference in speed. One way will slow you down, good for saving Delta-V if you're planning on surveying that object, and the other will speed you up which is what Scott Manley is probably doing. I'm not sure which video you're referring to though, so I can't say for sure.

[celem]

Yes, you need to pass behind the object as it orbits it's parent for it to accelerate you, so you would have hit it if it hadn't just moved out of the way as you approached, the boost is greater the lower you get at approach and the massier the body is. If you pass right in front of it as it orbits then it will brake you, combine with an aerobrake to dump hundreds or even thousands (eve again) of dv for free.

[Seret]

Anyone else notice that the OP hasn't been back? In fact, this was their one and only post to the forum. 15 pages later...

[Leatherneck]

Anyone else notice that the OP hasn't been back? In fact, this was their one and only post to the forum. 15 pages later...

It gets cold when you aren't under your bridge.