[1.1.3] AntennaRange 1.11.4 - Enforce and Encourage Antenna Diversity

[eddiew]

Thanks for the update @toadicus, much appreciated!

Not sure whether I've misunderstood the range requirements, but I just (inadvertently) transmitted data from Minmus with a Communotron 16, and no other vessels in flight... The power requirement was humongous however and I had to allow it to send partial data. Not sure if that was intended behaviour ^^;

[toadicus]

On 4/24/2016 at 5:13 AM, Tantalus said:

Hey ho @toadicus,

i've tried to make a module manager config to use the Contrares antennas with your mod, but i'm not sure what the values of MaxPowerFactor and MaxDataFactor refer to. Also, I see differences in what is displayed for range in editor and in flight (flight values are much higher than editor values). How can i correct this? Thanks a lot, i really like your mod.

 

Regards

Tantalus

@Tantalus, MaxPowerFactor affects the maximum range of antennas (along with nominalRange) via the relationship MaximumRange = sqrt(MaxPowerFactor) * nominalRange.  Note that in the default mode "maximum range" is a misleading name; that's actually the maximum range between two antennas of the same type.  Different targets (various antenna types, Kerbin at different levels, etc.) affect the actual effective maximum range of a given link via the relationship MaxLinkDistance = sqrt(relay1.maximumRange * relay2.maximumRange).

EDIT: MaxDataFactor provides a "speed up" bonus to transmission rates when your effective link is inside the nominal link range (which is NominalLinkDistance = sqrt(relay1.nominalRange * relay2.nominalRange)).

There's more info in the README, here: https://github.com/toadicus/AntennaRange/blob/master/README.md  Hope that helps!

When you get something that you like, feel free to contribute it to the community via the compatibility patches page: https://github.com/toadicus/AntennaRange/wiki/Compatibility-Patches.

On 4/24/2016 at 8:57 AM, eddiew said:

Thanks for the update @toadicus, much appreciated!

Not sure whether I've misunderstood the range requirements, but I just (inadvertently) transmitted data from Minmus with a Communotron 16, and no other vessels in flight... The power requirement was humongous however and I had to allow it to send partial data. Not sure if that was intended behaviour ^^;

@eddiew, the answer to your question is probably a lot the same as the answer to Tantalus' question: range requirements depend on both ends of the link.  A Comm. 16 has a maximum link distance to a level 2 Tracking Station that's just outside Minmus' orbit, so assuming that describes your situation, the behaviour you describe is expected.

Here's a table that shows the maximum link ranges of each antenna relative to the others, and to each of the Kerbin upgrade levels:

To↓ From→	Comm. 16	Comms DTS	HG-55	Comm. 88-88	EVA
Comm. 16	<Kerbin Orbit	Kerbisynchronous Orbit	Kerbin->Mun	Kerbin->Mun	<Kerbin Orbit
Comms DTS	Kerbisynchronous Orbit	Jool's Moons	Jool's Moons	Jool's Moons	Kerbisynchronous Orbit
HG-55	Kerbin->Mun	Jool's Moons	Jool's Moons	Kerbin->Duna @ Transfer	Kerbisynchronous Orbit
Comm. 88-88	Kerbin->Mun	Jool's Moons	Kerbin->Duna @ Transfer	Kerbin->Duna	Kerbisynchronous Orbit
KSC1	Low Kerbin Orbit	Kerbin->Minmus	Kerbin SOI	Kerbin SOI	<Kerbin Orbit
KSC2	Kerbin->Minmus	Kerbin->Duna	Kerbin->Duna	Kerbin->Jool	Kerbin->Mun
KSC3	Kerbin SOI	Kerbin->Jool	Kerbin->Eeloo	Kerbin->Eeloo	Kerbin->Minmus

Edited April 26, 2016 by toadicus
Added MaxDataFactor discussion for Tantalus.

[eddiew]

11 minutes ago, toadicus said:

er to your question is probably a lot the same as the answer to Tantalus' question: range requirements depend on both ends of the link.  A Comm. 16 has a maximum link distance to a level 2 Tracking Station that's just outside Minmus' orbit, so assuming that describes your situation, the behaviour you describe is expected.

Here's a table that shows the maximum link ranges of each antenna relative to the others, and to each of the Kerbin upgrade levels:

Yes that's what I've got indeed! I hadn't twigged that MOAR POWER was an option when out of nominal range ^^;  I will research the first dish and use that next mission, probably solve the power drain issue  

Although... I'm running OPM and Kerbol Plus now, and I'm fairly sure they're going to go beyond the range of Eeloo in stock xD  But that's ok, I'm sure I can write a config file to extend them a little.

[lodestar]

I'm writing my own patch for some antennas and I realized the parts in the VAB show the simpleRange value, even when additive mode is enabled. I decided to check the source to see what's going on and it looks like the code is not forking correctly here:

if (ARConfiguration.UseAdditiveRanges)
{
  sb.AppendFormat("Nominal Range to Kerbin: {0:S3}m\n",
                  Math.Sqrt(this.nominalTransmitDistance * ARConfiguration.KerbinNominalRange)
                 );
  sb.AppendFormat("Maximum Range to Kerbin: {0:S3}m",
                  Math.Sqrt(
                    this.nominalTransmitDistance * Math.Sqrt(this.maxPowerFactor) *
                    ARConfiguration.KerbinRelayRange
                  )
                 );
}
else
{
  sb.AppendFormat("Nominal Range: {0:S3}m\n", this.nominalTransmitDistance);
  sb.AppendFormat("Maximum Range: {0:S3}m", this.maxTransmitDistance);
}

https://github.com/toadicus/AntennaRange/blob/1e5fba58cee92e6ce8b28e485c6c8e5117e6222c/ModuleLimitedDataTransmitter.cs#L630

I'm getting the info from the else clause, even though I have UseAdditiveRanges enabled:
 

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<config>
    <rect name="configWindowPos">
        <xmin>1546</xmin>
        <xmax>1796</xmax>
        <ymin>341</ymin>
        <ymax>628</ymax>
    </rect>
    <bool name="requireLineOfSight">1</bool>
    <double name="graceRatio">0.05</double>
    <bool name="requireConnectionForControl">1</bool>
    <bool name="fixedPowerCost">1</bool>
    <bool name="drawPrettyLines">1</bool>
    <long name="updateDelay">16</long>
    <bool name="useAdditiveRanges">1</bool>
    <bool name="useToolbarIfAvailable">1</bool>
</config>

 

 I checked the ARConfiguration.cs file and everything seems ok. This is really weird. Any ideas?

[toadicus]

@eddiew, last I checked OPM distributes a patch that increases the range of all the stock parts for use with AntennaRange.

@lodestar, thanks for the report!  I'll look in to it.

[eddiew]

Oh, cool, I hadn't noticed, thanks. Will go find it

*edit* Oh, heh, it's already in the OPM folder ^^;

Edited April 26, 2016 by eddiew

[Tantalus]

Thanks a lot @toadicus, thats a bunch of info i can work with. I'll upload my config as soon as i think its polished enough. 

Edited April 27, 2016 by Tantalus
Weak in grammar, you are

[rasta013]

24 minutes ago, Tantalus said:

Thanks a lot @toadicus, thats a bunch of info i can work with. I'll upload my config as soon as i think its polished enough. 

I'm in the process of re-writing and updating the OPM/Stock MM files for the Phantom Aerospace 'Antennas' mod in order to give decent numbers and balance between both stock and OPM setups.  I'll be posting these as soon as I get them done and if you'd like some help with then Contares antennas I'll be happy to take a look or work with you on getting AR files written for them as well.  I do this frequently for part mod antennas that I like and use long term like AIES' 10 antennas.  I just love the flexibility to build my comms networks... 

[rasta013]

@toadicus Curiosity question for you...

Did adding in the simpleRange parameter become required sometime recently or as part of the upgrade/recompile for 1.1?  I had to track down a problem with 'Antennas' and the AR files it comes with.  I even tried the unified version that was posted in the thread and no matter what I did it perpetually was showing 0m nominal and maximum ranges in the editor.  Furthermore, they were only usable as standard antennas as if no AR patch was being applied but the logs were showing no errors and the parts were compiling successfully.  After perusing the cfgs I noticed none of them had the simpleRange parameter at all and as soon as I did some quick math and added them in, they worked flawlessly.  Hence my curiosity has been piqued and figured that if this was new (or happened unknowingly) that it'd be good to ask and get the word out...

Great job as always on this mod - hands down one of my favorites since I got my fill of setting up complex comms thru RT. It strikes that perfect balance between realism and fun. 

Edited April 27, 2016 by rasta013

[RA3236]

Umm, is EVAManager a dependency, or is CKAN bugged?

[DuoDex]

Are there any extension mods for this? I seem to recall something that added configs for a different antenna pack...and what about the new communotron? I can't seem to use that  

[Tantalus]

8 hours ago, rasta013 said:

I'm in the process of re-writing and updating the OPM/Stock MM files for the Phantom Aerospace 'Antennas' mod in order to give decent numbers and balance between both stock and OPM setups.  I'll be posting these as soon as I get them done and if you'd like some help with then Contares antennas I'll be happy to take a look or work with you on getting AR files written for them as well.  I do this frequently for part mod antennas that I like and use long term like AIES' 10 antennas.  I just love the flexibility to build my comms networks... 

Sounds good. I'll do some numbercrunching over the next weekend, maybe then you can tanke a look at my values and tell me if they seem right. My goal is to have a range spectrum of antennas starting with the stock commutron 16 as shortest, stock 88-88 as highest, and all the other somewhere in between them, with the DTS-M1 somewhrere in the midfield.

 

[DStaal]

3 hours ago, rasta013 said:

@toadicus Curiosity question for you...

Did adding in the simpleRange parameter become required sometime recently or as part of the upgrade/recompile for 1.1?  I had to track down a problem with 'Antennas' and the AR files it comes with.  I even tried the unified version that was posted in the thread and no matter what I did it perpetually was showing 0m nominal and maximum ranges in the editor.  Furthermore, they were only usable as standard antennas as if no AR patch was being applied but the logs were showing no errors and the parts were compiling successfully.  After perusing the cfgs I noticed none of them had the simpleRange parameter at all and as soon as I did some quick math and added them in, they worked flawlessly.  Hence my curiosity has been piqued and figured that if this was new (or happened unknowingly) that it'd be good to ask and get the word out...

Great job as always on this mod - hands down one of my favorites since I got my fill of setting up complex comms thru RT. It strikes that perfect balance between realism and fun. 

Also interested to know... and do you have your patched files available someplace?  I use those antennas a lot as well.

[toadicus]

4 hours ago, rasta013 said:

@toadicus Curiosity question for you...

Did adding in the simpleRange parameter become required sometime recently or as part of the upgrade/recompile for 1.1?  I had to track down a problem with 'Antennas' and the AR files it comes with.  I even tried the unified version that was posted in the thread and no matter what I did it perpetually was showing 0m nominal and maximum ranges in the editor.  Furthermore, they were only usable as standard antennas as if no AR patch was being applied but the logs were showing no errors and the parts were compiling successfully.  After perusing the cfgs I noticed none of them had the simpleRange parameter at all and as soon as I did some quick math and added them in, they worked flawlessly.  Hence my curiosity has been piqued and figured that if this was new (or happened unknowingly) that it'd be good to ask and get the word out...

Great job as always on this mod - hands down one of my favorites since I got my fill of setting up complex comms thru RT. It strikes that perfect balance between realism and fun. 

Well, "recently" as in "nearly a year ago".   simpleRange has been a part of the config since 1.10 when proper geometrically-additive ranges were added.  The README has a bit more info on what you need and tries to talk about why.

EDIT: Also, thanks!  I'm glad you're enjoying the mod.

4 hours ago, RA3236 said:

Umm, is EVAManager a dependency, or is CKAN bugged?

Yes, EVAManager is a dependency.  Technically it's optional -- most of the mod will work without it -- but it's required for getting radios into Kerbals' EVA suits.

1 hour ago, DuoDex said:

Are there any extension mods for this? I seem to recall something that added configs for a different antenna pack...and what about the new communotron? I can't seem to use that  

I know a number of people have written some -- and it sounds like @rasta013 and @Tantalus are writing more now -- but I don't maintain any myself.  I'm trying to encourage people to put links to their patches here: https://github.com/toadicus/AntennaRange/wiki/Compatibility-Patches.

All you need is a registered github account; no working knowledge of fancy version control schemes required.

Edited April 27, 2016 by toadicus
Thanked rasta013 for his praise.

[rasta013]

1 hour ago, Tantalus said:

Sounds good. I'll do some numbercrunching over the next weekend, maybe then you can tanke a look at my values and tell me if they seem right. My goal is to have a range spectrum of antennas starting with the stock commutron 16 as shortest, stock 88-88 as highest, and all the other somewhere in between them, with the DTS-M1 somewhrere in the midfield.

 

Yeah no problem at all.  Looking at and adding extra antennas/configs for them are just beautiful when you can get them all lined up nicely like that too.  I should have my re-write of the Antennas/AIES set done by this weekend which represents a total of 20 antennas once you include stock.  This will also give a picture of the rough balance I'm working on striking.  The re-write is easy...the balancing, not so much but that's something that takes time work out anyway.

44 minutes ago, toadicus said:

Well, "recently" as in "nearly a year ago".   simpleRange has been a part of the config since 1.10 when proper geometrically-additive ranges were added.  The README has a bit more info on what you need and tries to talk about why.

EDIT: Also, thanks!  I'm glad you're enjoying the mod.

Yes, EVAManager is a dependency.  Technically it's optional -- most of the mod will work without it -- but it's required for getting radios into Kerbals' EVA suits.

I know a number of people have written some -- and it sounds like @rasta013 and @Tantalus are writing more now -- but I don't maintain any myself.  I'm trying to encourage people to put links to their patches here: https://github.com/toadicus/AntennaRange/wiki/Compatibility-Patches.

All you need is a registered github account; no working knowledge of fancy version control schemes required.

LMAO okay 

I've been putting simpleRange into my configs since it got included so never noticed that it was an actual requirement.  My confusion arose when I ran across a number of cfgs that didn't have it and didn't really remember if it was required.  Looking back the AR readme page it seems somewhat more obvious now...

2 hours ago, DuoDex said:

Are there any extension mods for this? I seem to recall something that added configs for a different antenna pack...and what about the new communotron? I can't seem to use that  

 

1 hour ago, DStaal said:

Also interested to know... and do you have your patched files available someplace?  I use those antennas a lot as well.

As @toadicus mentioned in his post above, yes they will be available on the github wiki page as soon as I get them done (a day or two at most).  I'll be posting my updates for my AIES patch and the new Antennas patch but will also update the thread as soon as I do.

[Tandoori]

Looking into using this mod as a less-high maintenance alternative to RemoteTech, as I'm sure many of you do. 

Does this mod allow for the use of command stations/ad-hoc/direct control? Say I've got a manned ship in orbit on the far side of Duna, with a rover probe on the surface below. Both are currently experiencing LOS to Kerbin. Can I still control the probe directly from orbit without the connection to Kerbin using this mod or another available mod extension?

Edited April 27, 2016 by Tandoori

[rasta013]

On 4/26/2016 at 11:57 AM, lodestar said:

I'm writing my own patch for some antennas and I realized the parts in the VAB show the simpleRange value, even when additive mode is enabled. I decided to check the source to see what's going on and it looks like the code is not forking correctly here:

https://github.com/toadicus/AntennaRange/blob/1e5fba58cee92e6ce8b28e485c6c8e5117e6222c/ModuleLimitedDataTransmitter.cs#L630

I'm getting the info from the else clause, even though I have UseAdditiveRanges enabled:
 I checked the ARConfiguration.cs file and everything seems ok. This is really weird. Any ideas?

@toadicus I just wanted to report back that I'm seeing the exact same behavior.  I've got the two patches I'm writing in progress today and found this to be 100% true across the board.  Every antenna that I setup shows simpleRange from the cfg with or without UseAdditiveRanges turned on.  I have not tested the actual numbers in flight yet, this is purely from the VAB/SPH.  Will update this post later tonight once I get a chance to do some flight testing...

UPDATE: In flight the everything works appropriately.  It is only in the editor that the simpleRange numbers are showing incorrectly.

Edited April 28, 2016 by rasta013
Updating testing

[lodestar]

1 hour ago, rasta013 said:

@toadicus I just wanted to report back that I'm seeing the exact same behavior.  I've got the two patches I'm writing in progress today and found this to be 100% true across the board.  Every antenna that I setup shows simpleRange from the cfg with or without UseAdditiveRanges turned on.  I have not tested the actual numbers in flight yet, this is purely from the VAB/SPH.  Will update this post later tonight once I get a chance to do some flight testing...

UPDATE: In flight the everything works appropriately.  It is only in the editor that the simpleRange numbers are showing incorrectly.

Yes. I did some debugging on that and all boolean options have false values when GetInfo() is called. GetInfo() is called during startup for each antenna and never again. ARConfiguration is loaded on the Awake() call, which only happens when a game is loaded, so by the time it's called the antennas have been set up with the simpleRange. I'm not a C# guy so I can't figure out where exactly it should be updating.

 

Edited April 28, 2016 by lodestar

[rasta013]

10 hours ago, lodestar said:

Yes. I did some debugging on that and all boolean options have false values when GetInfo() is called. GetInfo() is called during startup for each antenna and never again. ARConfiguration is loaded on the Awake() call, which only happens when a game is loaded, so by the time it's called the antennas have been set up with the simpleRange. I'm not a C# guy so I can't figure out where exactly it should be updating.

 

LOL...well you tracked down a hell of a lot more than I did.  I'm a great tester and bug hunter...I just don't know how to find where they're coming from or much less kill them. 

[rasta013]

On 4/27/2016 at 3:12 PM, Tandoori said:

Looking into using this mod as a less-high maintenance alternative to RemoteTech, as I'm sure many of you do. 

Does this mod allow for the use of command stations/ad-hoc/direct control? Say I've got a manned ship in orbit on the far side of Duna, with a rover probe on the surface below. Both are currently experiencing LOS to Kerbin. Can I still control the probe directly from orbit without the connection to Kerbin using this mod or another available mod extension?

Sorry man - I would've answered this right after you posted it but missed it.  This will not allow ad-hoc control/direct control of any probe that is not in contact with Kerbin. That said, relay networks can be setup so an occluded probe could relay it's transmissions to/from Kerbin through any number of connections.  I've even bounced one from an occluded probe to an occluded satellite that relayed first to Dres and then back to Kerbin.  The only thing that counts is that the relay network be able to see Kerbin for the last hop.

Another thing you can do is immersion breaking but you can also turn off restricted probe control but still require connection for data transmission.  So you could have a probe/sat that's occluded remain controllable but not be able to transmit results until the relay returns.

[rasta013]

Instead of a simple MM patch exclusively for use with Antenna Range I've overhauled the Antennas mod including new config files balanced for integration with stock.  It includes a new consolidated MM patch for both stock and OPM setups using Antenna Range.  This link is also available on the Antenna Range wiki under compatibility patches.

Click Here for Antennas Overhaul

This version only works under KSP 1.1.x and requires Module Manager 2.6.23+.  If you choose to use this version PLEASE remove all previous versions of Antennas before installing.  Failure to do so will result in unpredictable behavior.  In case you installed it manually, the Antennas mod is contained in the PhantomAerospace folder.

[toadicus]

@lodestar @rasta013, thanks for following up on the editor info.  It looks like Squad has removed the functionality that I previously used to update the module info that's displayed in the editor (confusingly, without removing the API ball that used to facilitate it).  So, I'm pretty sure I'm going to need to take the long way 'round and make my own system to do so.

@rasta013, thanks for fielding @Tandoori's question.   You're correct in observing that "command centers" are not supported at this point, and that the intended way to control probes outside of direct contact with Kerbin is to disable "connection required for probe control".  In general I feel like without ahead-of-time programming and signal lag, requiring connections for control is more punitive than realistic.  In real life nobody is flying the Mars landers as they descend in real time; it's all programmed and executed by the computer.  Here, since we don't have computers to execute programs for it, I figure we're basically roleplaying the robots executing commands when we're playing probes.

[rasta013]

1 minute ago, toadicus said:

@lodestar @rasta013, thanks for following up on the editor info.  It looks like Squad has removed the functionality that I previously used to update the module info that's displayed in the editor (confusingly, without removing the API ball that used to facilitate it).  So, I'm pretty sure I'm going to need to take the long way 'round and make my own system to do so.

Oh man that's a pain  . Well at least we all know about it and can accommodate it until a solution is found.  It's probably most painful for brand new users of AR.

 

4 minutes ago, toadicus said:

You're correct in observing that "command centers" are not supported at this point, and that the intended way to control probes outside of direct contact with Kerbin is to disable "connection required for probe control".  In general I feel like without ahead-of-time programming and signal lag, requiring connections for control is more punitive than realistic.

I fully agree.  Someone wanting full realism and desire to utilize command centers might as well move up to RT but to be perfectly honest, I like the fact the need isn't there for AR.  Frankly, I still like to play a game and get plenty of realism throughout the day. 

[toadicus]

I've got a fix working, and took the opportunity to brighten up the module info stats while I was at it:

Release will come sometime this weekend.

 

[rasta013]

10 hours ago, toadicus said:

I've got a fix working, and took the opportunity to brighten up the module info stats while I was at it:

OH MAN!  That's so tasty.  I love when problems end making things better in the end. 

So I guess I'll do my part and contribute some more...finished the MM patch for the 10 AIES antennas.  It is tested and working perfectly under both stock and OPM setups.  This works really well when combined with the Antennas overhaul I completed earlier today.  As expected, this is posted in the compatibility patches section of the AR wiki.

Link to MM Config for AIES Antennas

UPDATE:  Cobalt_Wolf has asked for AR updates for his Blue Dog Design Bureau so I should have those out in the next day or so as well.  He's intending to package these with his mod so you'll be able to get it that way or I will also post to the wiki as usual.

Edited April 30, 2016 by rasta013
Update