(OLD) The Ultimate Jool-5 Challenge:land Kerbals on all moons and return in one big mission

[Norcalplanner]

It might be best to start a new Career save for this and doing things slowly... with the new difficulty options, I have a fast-track save that I unlock the Tech fast, but still have to build up Rep before I get the right missions (this is turning out to be a right pain to do, but with a little extra Funding here and there I think I'm making it work... this time...)

It's well worth a go no matter how you decide to do it - Career is only required for the Jebediah level, so you could do any of the first 3 levels in a sandbox

Agree 100%. I have my main career save, which is on hard made, uses mods like TAC-LS and KCT, and has many missions going simultaneously; then I also have my fast track easy mode career save with all the tech unlocked, and with TAC-LS and KCT disabled, that's used primarily for testing and for challenges.

[Norcalplanner]

It's well worth it, but I bet it takes you more than half a day...

Yep. Choosing screenshots, putting them into imgur in the right order, and coming up with witty descriptions took me about four hours for my Jool-5 Kethane challenge. Doing the challenge itself (which was longer, because there was lots of Kethane mining) took two long evenings and a full weekend worth of (fun) effort.

[Laie]

Is delaying 62 missions, a couple of which need course corrections and special management needs worth this challenge? I mean, it sounds fairly easy actually (not to boast), but also extremely time consuming.

That is so subjective that you have to find your own answer. Chances are that you'll only find out in hindsight.

Personally, I find that I don't enjoy it when too many missions are going on in parallel. Mentally switching from one mission to another can be quite stressful, really. I also tend to develop favorites, missions I want to return to as quickly as possible -- if something else pops up in the mean time, this is an unwelcome interruption. So I end up only really playing one mission while merely dealing with the others.

A mission on the scale of Jool-5 should be played in one sitting, IMO. Maybe not literally in a single gaming session (it can easily be ten hours or more), but without interruptions from other missions. I'd advise you to start a new sandbox game solely for this purpose. Or try to plan it so that when your mission arrives at Jool, you will have about one game year during which nothing else will pop up.

[parzr]

Gods, I really want to do this challenge, but I'm running so many missions and I really don't have the time to design a ship of epic proportions. I'd probably take me about a half a day of so to develop a rocket that can lift straight from Kerbin to every body in the Kerbol system, but I don't have half a day. I'm almost willing to put aside my missions for now to build one, but I need a word from someone:

Is delaying 62 missions, a couple of which need course corrections and special management needs worth this challenge? I mean, it sounds fairly easy actually (not to boast), but also extremely time consuming.

lets assume you have 1 hour a day. what can you do in 12 days? If you're able to do it to Ziv's satisfaction in that time I'd be impressed. This challenge went ghost for its first 2 months, not because people weren't trying but because it was harder and more fun than anticipated and they where refusing to give up.

[jaddbo]

how long does it usually take for Ziv to accept or deny an entry?

[The Hawk]

Well, I finally polished off my mission, returning something like 33,137.6 science from Jool SOI (inclusive of DMagic parts and ScanSat, however). Only thing is, I can't figure out how I did it. I kept a detailed log of the science I was doing along the way and it doesn't add up to that number or even anything very close.

It'll take a while to organize the vast number of screenshots I took anyway, so I'll have to go back and take a closer look.

[Xannari Ferrows]

Oh, before I forget, a quick question. I would preferably want this to be answered by Ziv himself since he created this challenge.

Ziv, would you want me to start logging pictures from the launchpad, and show the various vessels docking together, or should I start logging when the ship in orbit is complete? I'm fine either way, but I would suggest to start logging when the ship is complete, because honestly, I don't want you to sit through all the dockings. You've seen the a million times, and I really think they would take up too much space. But, if you want the dockings, I can provide them.

Gotta cut this question short. I'm having a problem with my tiny photo-propelled racer. I'll have to look at that. Anyway, I appreciate any insight you have to this. I really can't start without it. Many thanks in advance!

[Ziv]

how long does it usually take for Ziv to accept or deny an entry?

Hey, it depends on how busy my real life is. It usually takes somewhere between 1 and 7 days. Don't worry I remembered that you sent an entry, I'm going to review it now!

[Ziv]

Ziv, would you want me to start logging pictures from the launchpad, and show the various vessels docking together, or should I start logging when the ship in orbit is complete? I'm fine either way, but I would suggest to start logging when the ship is complete, because honestly, I don't want you to sit through all the dockings. You've seen the a million times, and I really think they would take up too much space. But, if you want the dockings, I can provide them.

Gotta cut this question short. I'm having a problem with my tiny photo-propelled racer. I'll have to look at that. Anyway, I appreciate any insight you have to this. I really can't start without it. Many thanks in advance!

Hi, there's a rule for this:

4. Unlimited launches are allowed to Kerbin orbit to put the main ship together but this is also part of the challenge and has to be documented well. No hyperedit!

I want the JOOL-5 Challenge missions to be flown at 100%, from surface to surface. Planning, testing (here you can use hyperedit) and putting the ship together in orbit is also part of the fun. And better planning leads to less launches, refuelings and/or dockings!

[Ziv]

Gods, I really want to do this challenge, but I'm running so many missions and I really don't have the time to design a ship of epic proportions. I'd probably take me about a half a day of so to develop a rocket that can lift straight from Kerbin to every body in the Kerbol system, but I don't have half a day. I'm almost willing to put aside my missions for now to build one, but I need a word from someone:

Is delaying 62 missions, a couple of which need course corrections and special management needs worth this challenge? I mean, it sounds fairly easy actually (not to boast), but also extremely time consuming.

If you think JOOL-5 is easy and time consuming and doesn't sound fun for you then just skip it. This challenge is not obligatory at all!

By the way if you can develop a rocket in half a day which goes to every body in the Kerbol system then you can attempt the Jebediah's Level + Grand Tour. If you feel like a pro then do it with 0.22 where there was no decent ion engine, the biggest tank was the orange one and the ships were much more wobbly and broke apart easier. And don't check the mission of others, use your own ideas only. Don't use mods and don't use hyperedit to test your ship before the mission.

If you do it then I'll hat off in front of you. But I must warn you that it may be hard, and will be time consuming!

Edited November 21, 2014 by Ziv

[Ziv]

took me 11 days, but i got this done (level 2)

mods: KW rocketry, procedural fairings, mechjeb, kerbal engineer, time control, atmospheric trajectories, KAS, toolbar, and i used hyper-edit to test my tylo lander. (this was my first landing on tylo)

i did not need a refueling mission, but i almost did. i used 0.25, and i only needed 3 launches (one for the main ship[i included the tylo lander], one for the other two landers, and one more for the crew and to top off the fuel tanks)

the tylo landing was very close, but it made it! the layth landing was the only one that was not close on the fuel, and my kerbal engineer was lying to me and was figuring in the fuel supply to refuel the lander, so i had a lot less fuel than i thought i would have.

i would have made a vid. but i don't have any recording software. so i just made an album of photos here

my main craft (on the launchpad) weighed 4095.07 tons, cost 2,113,349 kerbal dollars, and was 534 parts.

my next craft (on the launchpad) weighed 598.55 tons, cost 558,037 kerbal dollars, and was 406 parts.

my final craft (on the launchpad) was 585 parts, and weighed 663.44 tons

http://imgur.com/a/AnNXV

Haha, I liked that you added your unsuccessful launch attempts too! Oh, poor Kerbal(s) that have died there!

I'm sorry but I got confused a lot of times while reviewing your entry as there are hardly any fuel/dV data and pictures about your:

- Jool to Tylo

- your reserves in your Tylo lander before departure

- your Tylo-Laythe flight path

- the Laythe landing seems absolutely fine but then jumping to Vall with the lander, even without refueling (?) leaves me without any exact information

- your Vall landing without any initial/on the surface/arriving back fuel/dV stat

- your redocking at Laythe (arriving back to Laythe with aerobrake can cause you many trouble (orbital direction, inclination, etc) and may need a lot of dV to redocking, so I always have to see that part

- no fuel/dV data and flight path from Laythe to Pol, and from Pol to Bop

Can you please provide pictures about these steps? Otherwise the mission looks good, so if I see you had all the fuel/dV and flown all the parts then it will be all right!

[Ziv]

Finished my Jool-5 mission, level 2+3. 2 kerbals on each moon, 10 kerbals in total. I hope that it was well-documented enough, if not, I have backup quicksaves at many important points so I can provide more screenshots if needed. I realize it isn't the typical look of a Jool-5 ship but I enjoyed the challenge of designing a ship that's both aesthetically pleasing and highly functional. I hope the level of part clipping is minimal enough, there's absolutely no fuel tank clipping, only a tiny bit of clipping where wings didn't quite fit together.

Version 0.25

only mods used were KER and EVE (all stock parts)

10 kerbals on the mission - 2 kerbals land on each moon

one launch from Kerbin

no hitchhiker containers, the kerbals lived in mk2 passenger cabins

no refueling needed

no additional stuff brought along

Delta-V information:

The mothership has about 7600 dV. KER might have been a bit confused with the landers loaded. The universal lander has a little over 3000 dV and the plane has about 1700 (in vacuum with tanks full). The Heavy Landing Pod (HeLP) gives the lander about 2500 more if it is dropped when it runs out of fuel and the two small drop tanks for the plane give it about 400 more.

http://imgur.com/a/Y3kFA

I have done the Jool-5 before, in 0.23, but it was cool to do this challenge again. It really shows how far KSP has come and how much I've improved in the 10 months since that attempt. Here's my previous mission for those interested:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/57197-The-ultimate-Jool-5-challenge-land-Kerbals-on-all-moons-and-return-in-one-big-misson?p=916716&viewfull=1#post916716

sdj64: Congratulations, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge on err... both Level 2 and Level 3!

Hi again, I appreciate your "docking bay" and heat shilds on your main ship. Your Laythe lander plane looks compact and fun. Your other lander+tug is a nice minimalistic stock solution.

Your Tylo gravity assist to match planes with Bop is really clever! By the way if you go to Bop when it is crossing the main moon's plane then it's also cheap to get there (Oh yeah, I see you did that on the way back).

Hmm, your solution may be better on dV too, I'm not sure, but I really like it!

Haha, impatient Alan Kerman endangered the mission with that plane-landing on Vall! Thank god they managed it!

This picture is priceless!

At Tylo landing you were lucky that you had two tanks only so the fuel flow direction issue was easily solvable.

I usually don't like shuttle return to Kerbin but in this case I'm okay with it because you put a lot of additional effort and idea into this mission.

Good job, which level do you want me to put your mission?

[Xannari Ferrows]

Hi, there's a rule for this:

4. Unlimited launches are allowed to Kerbin orbit to put the main ship together but this is also part of the challenge and has to be documented well. No hyperedit!

I want the JOOL-5 Challenge missions to be flown at 100%, from surface to surface. Planning, testing (here you can use hyperedit) and putting the ship together in orbit is also part of the fun. And better planning leads to less launches, refuelings and/or dockings!

Alright. I'll document any dockings I have to do. I started designing craft last night, and should be finished by this evening, so that might be when I start documenting everything.

[Ziv]

Realchute: https://kerbalstuff.com/mod/71

Boxsat: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/91616-0-25-BoxSat-vA-02b-Updated-10-13-2014

Hey, I checked them, both are accepted!

[invultri]

Hey, I checked them, both are accepted!

Yay! I had the crazy idea to get a rt2 network going in the same run.. that is if my pc will handle the part count that is I will try to design the ship tomorrow and post it for reviews just in case I do something goofy.

Edit: Btw, that would mean at least 7 kerbals as I would need 6 to make sure unmanned things keep running.

[sdj64]

sdj64: Congratulations, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge on err... both Level 2 and Level 3!

Hi again, I appreciate your "docking bay" and heat shilds on your main ship. Your Laythe lander plane looks compact and fun. Your other lander+tug is a nice minimalistic stock solution.

Your Tylo gravity assist to match planes with Bop is really clever! By the way if you go to Bop when it is crossing the main moon's plane then it's also cheap to get there (Oh yeah, I see you did that on the way back).

Hmm, your solution may be better on dV too, I'm not sure, but I really like it!

Haha, impatient Alan Kerman endangered the mission with that plane-landing on Vall! Thank god they managed it!

This picture is priceless!

At Tylo landing you were lucky that you had two tanks only so the fuel flow direction issue was easily solvable.

I usually don't like shuttle return to Kerbin but in this case I'm okay with it because you put a lot of additional effort and idea into this mission.

Good job, which level do you want me to put your mission?

Thanks! I had a mix of really painstakingly planned transfers and "oh screw it, we have lots of fuel, let's get this over with" (going to Pol, especially, as well as the plane changes and maneuvers to land at the Kraken on Bop) It was only after I got back from Pol did I realize how close I was cutting it. The fuel flow with the Tylo lander was something that I had noticed before during testing. It could be solved with a fuel line and disabling crossfeed on the docking port, but a fuel line wouldn't re-attach after the undocking necessary to land at Bop and Pol.

You can put it on Level 3 I suppose, since that is the higher level.

[jaddbo]

- Jool to Tylo

- your reserves in your Tylo lander before departure

- your Tylo-Laythe flight path

- the Laythe landing seems absolutely fine but then jumping to Vall with the lander, even without refueling (?) leaves me without any exact information

- your Vall landing without any initial/on the surface/arriving back fuel/dV stat

- your redocking at Laythe (arriving back to Laythe with aerobrake can cause you many trouble (orbital direction, inclination, etc) and may need a lot of dV to redocking, so I always have to see that part

- no fuel/dV data and flight path from Laythe to Pol, and from Pol to Bop

sorry, i didn't take any photos of any of that. i also forgot to put on kerbal engineer on the main lander. but i did refuel the layth lander befor heading to vall. i did need to send the other lander to rescue the layth lander.

i went to the moons in this order: main ship goes to tylo, lander lands, docks, main craft heads to layth, establishes orbit (by re-entering), layth lander lands, re-docks, re-fuels, heads to vall, lands, heads back to layth, aerobrakes, burns into orbit, runs out of fuel, then the main lander goes to rescue it, heads back to main ship, drops off crew, re-fuels, heads to poll, establishes orbit, lands, heads back to layth, docks with main craft, re-fuels, gets drop tank, heads to bop, establishes orbit, lands, heads to layth, establishes orbit, docks, transfers the remaining fuel into the main craft, return craft heads to kirbin, lands, and the end!

i could just redo the chalenge, after the designing was done, it only took me about 4 or 5 days to do the challenge. and i would be able to skip tylo and layth.

sorry it was vague.

edit:only 1 kerbal was killed, the kerbals in the photos had parachutes. that one kerbal was killed by a bug on poll, and when i loaded the quicksave, the game crashed.

Edited November 22, 2014 by jaddbo

[PLAD]

I've wanted to do the Jool 5 challenge for a long time now, when I first found a 1051m/s to Jool path I was planning to use it for this. And now, finally, I managed to do it. I tried to do it with as little dV expended as possible through the wonder of flybys, here's a summary of the flight:

-Poor Jeb had just a lander can for the whole 2 year, 301 day flight. I assume Kerbals can go into hibernation or something.

-I did it in version 0.24.2. 0.25 came out after I completed flight testing and I wasn't going to redo it all.

-197 ton launch weight, all stock except for Mechjeb. No nukes or ions and only one jet, used for the Laythe landing/takeoff. No buried parts except for a couple of the little cubic struts that I used as mounting points for motors (and for a while, parachutes- then when I ruled out 'chutes I couldn't get the struts out!)

-22 flybys: 1 of Mun, 1 of Eve, 2 of Kerbin, 4 of Laythe, 4 of Vall, 6 of Tylo, 2 of Bop and 2 of Pol.

-It is a carrier/fuel depo and a universal lander. The carrier never went into orbit around any moon, or more than 4 orbits around Jool without a moon flyby. It would drop the lander at each moon during a slow and low pass, then pick it up at a later pass.

-Launcher/Carrier dV expended: 1070m/s from LKO to 0-degree inclination orbit around Jool just before dropping off the lander for the 1st time. 245 m/s from there to picking up the lander the last time. 100m/s from there to Kerbin atmosphere. 1415m/s total.

-Landing dV expended. Remember the lander had to decelerate from flyby speed to landing, then takeoff and get back to escape speed to meet the carrier.

Pol: 489m/s down, 504 up: 993 total.

Bop: 633m/s down, 694 up: 1327 total.

Tylo: 3493m/s down, 3412 up: 6855 total.

Vall: 1186m/s down, 1278 up: 2464 total.

Laythe is a special case because of the jet. Mechjeb said the jet expended 8256m/s but that seems really high for what it did, and for only using 41 units of fuel. 591m/s of rocket dV was used.

And 223m/s for the parachute-less landing on Kerbin.

Below are links to 7 Imgur albums detailing the trip . I may have gotten carried away with the pictures, sorry about that. Note that the "delta-V stats" that Mechjeb reports are confused by docking ports, and since the crossfeed goes on and off a lot the numbers go all over the place. The custom window "DV Expended" seems quite accurate as long as I recorded the carrier dV before it redocked and got zeroed out.

http://imgur.com/a/13tuj

http://imgur.com/a/yUjGt

http://imgur.com/a/vxPWJ

http://imgur.com/a/P65S0

http://imgur.com/a/D6WaS

http://imgur.com/a/DOrHC

http://imgur.com/a/kXCeC

[immelman]

-22 flybys: 1 of Mun, 1 of Eve, 2 of Kerbin, 4 of Laythe, 4 of Vall, 6 of Tylo, 2 of Bop and 2 of Pol.

Yep far more patient than I am that's for sure. With this efficiency why not go for the low mass crown?

[jaddbo]

I've wanted to do the Jool 5 challenge for a long time now, when I first found a 1051m/s to Jool path I was planning to use it for this. And now, finally, I managed to do it. I tried to do it with as little dV expended as possible through the wonder of flybys, here's a summary of the flight:

-Poor Jeb had just a lander can for the whole 2 year, 301 day flight. I assume Kerbals can go into hibernation or something.

-I did it in version 0.24.2. 0.25 came out after I completed flight testing and I wasn't going to redo it all.

-197 ton launch weight, all stock except for Mechjeb. No nukes or ions and only one jet, used for the Laythe landing/takeoff. No buried parts except for a couple of the little cubic struts that I used as mounting points for motors (and for a while, parachutes- then when I ruled out 'chutes I couldn't get the struts out!)

-22 flybys: 1 of Mun, 1 of Eve, 2 of Kerbin, 4 of Laythe, 4 of Vall, 6 of Tylo, 2 of Bop and 2 of Pol.

-It is a carrier/fuel depo and a universal lander. The carrier never went into orbit around any moon, or more than 4 orbits around Jool without a moon flyby. It would drop the lander at each moon during a slow and low pass, then pick it up at a later pass.

-Launcher/Carrier dV expended: 1070m/s from LKO to 0-degree inclination orbit around Jool just before dropping off the lander for the 1st time. 245 m/s from there to picking up the lander the last time. 100m/s from there to Kerbin atmosphere. 1415m/s total.

-Landing dV expended. Remember the lander had to decelerate from flyby speed to landing, then takeoff and get back to escape speed to meet the carrier.

Pol: 489m/s down, 504 up: 993 total.

Bop: 633m/s down, 694 up: 1327 total.

Tylo: 3493m/s down, 3412 up: 6855 total.

Vall: 1186m/s down, 1278 up: 2464 total.

Laythe is a special case because of the jet. Mechjeb said the jet expended 8256m/s but that seems really high for what it did, and for only using 41 units of fuel. 591m/s of rocket dV was used.

And 223m/s for the parachute-less landing on Kerbin.

Below are links to 7 Imgur albums detailing the trip . I may have gotten carried away with the pictures, sorry about that. Note that the "delta-V stats" that Mechjeb reports are confused by docking ports, and since the crossfeed goes on and off a lot the numbers go all over the place. The custom window "DV Expended" seems quite accurate as long as I recorded the carrier dV before it redocked and got zeroed out.

http://imgur.com/a/13tuj

http://imgur.com/a/yUjGt

http://imgur.com/a/vxPWJ

http://imgur.com/a/P65S0

http://imgur.com/a/D6WaS

http://imgur.com/a/DOrHC

http://imgur.com/a/kXCeC

WOW OMG that is a lot of flybys. how long did that take you? i just did a "hard" burn for jool.

[jaddbo]

Yep far more patient than I am that's for sure. With this efficiency why not go for the low mass crown?

he deserves an honorable shutout. at least.

[PLAD]

It took me about a month to run the mission though I'd been testing designs and ideas for a long time before that, off and on. And the full-up runs to Mun to test the assembly. Maybe 60 hours spread over a couple of months. Insane, I know. But it's how I relax.

I felt there was no way to beat Mesklin's low-mass entry, not that I was willing to try anyway. The low-dv path was tricky enough- trying to do it with a low-thrust ion drive, always worrying about the sunlight would have made it too tough for me. So I decided to go for the lowest dv possible since that's my favorite thing. I wish now I hadn't used the jet on Laythe since it distorts the numbers, but one of my design criteria was to keep it below 200 tons without using nukes. I'll be happy 2nd from the bottom of the low-mass subchallenge, if it mentions I did the mission with 22,124m/s. Although if I'd used a rocket and parachute on Laythe I could have done it with 18,000m/s. Unless I can prove that Mechjeb records jet delta-V incorrectly. I think some tests are in order...

[Thunderous Echo]

If none of you guys have ever been to Dres or Eeloo, they are worth the effort. It doesn't seem like that big of a thing, but those two (dwarf) planets really imbue you with some feeling that you can't find elsewhere in KSP because all the other planets are too busy being silly (a.k.a. kerbal).

(Except Dres canyon,that's still pretty silly)

[jaddbo]

If none of you guys have ever been to Dres or Eeloo, they are worth the effort. It doesn't seem like that big of a thing, but those two (dwarf) planets really imbue you with some feeling that you can't find elsewhere in KSP because all the other planets are too busy being silly (a.k.a. kerbal).

(Except Dres canyon,that's still pretty silly)

i have done eloo, i will do dres befor the year is over!

[kookoo_gr]

EEloo and Dres deserve more visits, they are beautiful in their own way, when i visited Dres i was amazed by its canyon