(OLD) The Ultimate Jool-5 Challenge:land Kerbals on all moons and return in one big mission

[Maxilica]

Obviously Ziv has the last word on any rule clarification, but his original statement "There's funding for one main ship only so all the crew, lander(s) and other stuff has to go to Jool as one big ship" seems to clearly state that you get one ship to work with at time of departure. No need to cheat, its certainly doable without sending refuelling ships in advance.

Well, I guess so, but you know what they say: never be afraid to ask! Anyway, let's see what Ziv has to say on the matter.

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

Well, I guess so, but you know what they say: never be afraid to ask! Anyway, let's see what Ziv has to say on the matter.

I think sending refuelling missions is o.k if you get to a certain point and cannot continue without refuelling; pre-empting this need indicates that you are aware of the fuel problem beforehand and should re-design accordingly!

Still wishing I hadn't used Skippers on my mothership... still waiting for Ziv to show to answer my question too!

[Rakaydos]

Testing update: My Omni lander was able to do a powered landing on laythe's ocean, but only if I start retroburning in the upper atmosphere- my succesful test never had any reentry heating, implying little in the way of aerobreak deltaV savings- I probably wonnt be able to make it off this rock.

I can try again without the docking tug attached (more delta V, more TWR, CoG drops below CoL, more of a pain in the ass to dock and refuel) or return to the VAB and add parachutes to the docking tug (where th mass wont effect the Tylo mission)

It's balanced upright because all the remaiing fuel is in talks below the waterline- I played fuel flow games on the way down)

Edit: I was wrong, I WAS capable of making orbit on my remaining fuel, though it's a bit tight. Hurrah for FAR, I guess. So I will be able to attempt the mission (though the flight plan calls for laythe as the LAST stop on my next flight.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Rakaydos

[Norcalplanner]

Success! The trip is over, surface samples from all five moons are safely back at KSC, and Jeb, Wilman, and Desberry Kerman are back on kerba firma. Full mission log and photos to follow, including some unforeseen developments.

[Fendleton]

I have just docked my Tylo lander to the mothership.

Never. Again.

...now I just need to find a good design for a basic Laythe lander...

[Rakaydos]

Jool 5, Part 1- The Outbound Flight Project.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

[Fendleton]

Latest attempt to lift the Mk.2 Advanced Dockable Science Package up to the mothership has failed. Turns out I need RCS thrusters for all that monopropellant to be useful.

....who would have known?

I'm also extremely worried about my fuel budget....I genuinely do not think I've got enough fuel for this trip now that I've ditched my reserve fuel module. I may have to improvise a reserve fuel system using claw units and some seriously stupid hardware design. If I attach extra fuel pods to the SRBs on the propulsion stage I can delay ejecting those boosters until after the pods are empty....although I'll need to manually drain and eject 6 fuel pods without unbalancing an already annoyingly unstable mothership. And before that, I'll have to do six more launches to get the pods up there, and line up each pod absolutely precisely to get the first claw in place, then unlock the pivot and swing a second claw precisely into position. Ah well. If it works, it'll be amazing.

Edit: I've added a new section to my writeup thread HERE

Edited June 30, 2014 by Fendleton

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

Latest attempt to lift the Mk.2 Advanced Dockable Science Package up to the mothership has failed. Turns out I need RCS thrusters for all that monopropellant to be useful.

....who would have known?

Heh, the amount of times I've done That...

Quick update from me; Refuel Mission Success, nearly everything topped-off again, but found some odd quirks with some of my landers... turns out anything connected together in-line will have its fuel crossfed to the main engines if crossfeed isn't turned off! >.<

Luckily I now have the small tug, which just sips at the fuel it has thanks to the nuke engines, which allowed me to take the Vall lander a lot closer in to do its descent, and made it much easier to ascend to a lower orbit once science was collected from Vall's surface. Yet to rendezvous with the tug again, but 2 down, 3 to go!

[kookoo_gr]

I am completely stuck when it comes to build a drive unit for my journey to Duna and then to Jool (grand tour + Jeb level) and i'd like some design advice. At the image below is the current drive unit, it's an asparagus staging with 6 nuke engines with the outer tanks being the asparagus along with a lander for Duna, Tylo, Vall, Bop, Poll and below are the other modules that will be used at the Jool system. The weight of the whole ship is at about 600t (with a lag to match).

According to the ÃŽâ€V map and my calculations i need about 22000 m/s for my mission to Duna/Jool (including aerobrake maneuvers) and the mechjeb calculations have me confused. Mechjeb shows me a total vacuum ÃŽâ€V of 11942 m/s but if i add up the ÃŽâ€V of the stages 11 - 7 i get 13176 m/s. Which is correct? Also i would like some advice on how to increase the ÃŽâ€V. The payload weight is about 120t and it is the lightest payload i could build for this mission

[Ziv]

Hi! I've been intrigued by this challenge and I'm currently planning a mission. I have read the rules, but something is still unclear: Can I launch fuel containers to one of the moons for refuelling before the main mission is launched/if the ship's fuel supplies aren't empty?

To give you an example, let's say that I'm at Laythe and I have some fuel, but to be safe I decide to refuel using the container I sent up earlier. I refuel and continue with the mission.

Thank you,

Max

Hi, in my perspective the whole mission should be done within one mission from Kerbin and back (the main ship can be put together in Kerbin orbit by multiple launches).

I allowed refueling only if somebody get stuck at the end of the mission then it could be a big disappointment to him after that much planning/flying, so to avoid this. But with refueling this mission can be done much more easily so it's not as a big achievement as normally.

But on the other hand your idea is not bad. So if you don't go on the novice way to "put a lot of huge fuel tanks and big engines together and it will be done with some refueling anyway" then this can look good. So I allow this as this is similar to a rescue refueling mission... but make sure that you plan the whole mission very fuel-wisely!

[Ziv]

2nd refuel mission is good so far; currently in a very eccentric eliptical orbit of Vall awaiting a response from Ziv (or SSSPutnik) as to wether I can switch out my main engines on the mothership for the one currently hauling the fuel, for fuel conservation purposes for the rest of the mission... If no, I think it will still be possible to complete, but may need yet another massive amount of fuel yet! The Skippers are REALLY inefficient for this sort of mission :/

Hi, why would you switch your engines to the fuel ones? Anyway, yes, you can do it.

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

I think I said in a previous post, but basically purely for fuel conservation... I've kinda moved ahead already, but think that the fuel tanker can catch up (it had some fuel left over, so left it in Vall orbit in the eventuality you would approve my request!)

Thanks, burns may be longer but with 4 banks of 4 nukes, they really do keep the fuel usage within acceptable amounts and the burns aren't too long! I don't think I would have found out a lot of the stuff I've learned doing this challenge on my own, it's a great learning experience

May I suggest maybe some kind of 'hardcore' mode? It's been proven that the Jebediah's level is well within reach of most if they really put their minds to it, and some people have done it multiple times with different mods... I'd leave it up to you of course, but basically no refuelling after departure from Kerbin Orbit, as well as whatever limitations on mods you deem fair

[Rakaydos]

I'm working on my first jool 5 mission, but it's a 2 seat single launch, no refueling. (If I've done my math right)

Do I have to plant a flag on Laythe, or is simply getting out and going for a swim enough?

[Ziv]

With the completion of the Outer Wilds Mission, I'd like to enter it for the Jool-5 Challenge.

- Which game version did you use?

A: 0.23.5

- What mods did you use, if any?

A: Yes, I used:

Kerbal Engineer Redux

TAC fuel balancer

Time Control(faster time warp FTW)

Precise Node

- How many launches were needed to start your mission from Kerbal?

A: 1

- How many refueling did you do during the mission, how much and where?

A: None

- Did you bring a Living Quarter (Hitch-hiker's Storage) for the guys during the long journey?

A: No

- Did you bring additional stuff like satellites, rovers, etc?

A: No

Some other statistics:

The mass of the vessel once in LKO was less than 100 tons. (At launch, it was over 900 tons. I never said I was good at building launch vehicles)

42981 science points were gathered during the mission.

5 Kerbals were launched aboard the vessel, and all returned home safely.

All science was stored in a mobile processing lab which was returned to Kerbin.

I didn't receive any science for recovering a vessel from the surface or orbit of any of the planets even though I returned my main lander (the GPL) to Kerbin. For some reason, I got points for recovering a vessel from the surface of Eeloo, but none of the other planets. (Maybe Eeloo landing just overrode all the other landings... I don't know if this is a bug or not)

Here is the final segment of the mission for proof:

http://imgur.com/a/eTccE

Mission Log HERE

Stratzenblitz75: Congratulations, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge on the JEBEDIAH'S LEVEL WITH A GRAND TOUR!!!

I really enjoyed your Laythe pictures and all the others were fun too. The vehicles are very well planned minimalistic ones. I'm still studying your mission log, there's a lot of information and fun out there. And maybe the first Grand Tour with one launch only? And it may be a new record for science points too!

btw I was planning a lvl1 low-mass mission since march but didn't have much time to make it happen, but fortunately it's on the way some days ago and I will finish it soon and will post it too. There will be some additional surprise and I guess a new minimalistic low-mass record too! (I usually don't have too much time to scan much of the other forum topics so maybe not, I will see)

thank you for your participating, I've never thought there will be an other contender for the JEBEDIAH'S LEVEL + GRAND TOUR too soon! Well done!

Edited June 30, 2014 by Ziv

[Fendleton]

Hmm. What kind of power is needed to get into orbit from Laythe? The lander for that mission is the only thing I haven't built yet.

[bobcook]

Hmm. What kind of power is needed to get into orbit from Laythe? The lander for that mission is the only thing I haven't built yet.

My Lathye landing album (descent, surface operations, ascent) shows what I used. Have a look here.

Specific images that will show exactly how my lander was constructed:

My Laythe lander during descent, prior to landing

On the surface

Back to orbit, after dropping the outer four tanks & engines

I used the RealChutes mod, but I don't believe it gave me any specific advantage beyond looking cool.

[Himynameisjake]

With the completion of the Outer Wilds Mission, I'd like to enter it for the Jool-5 Challenge.

- Which game version did you use?

A: 0.23.5

- What mods did you use, if any?

A: Yes, I used:

Kerbal Engineer Redux

TAC fuel balancer

Time Control(faster time warp FTW)

Precise Node

- How many launches were needed to start your mission from Kerbal?

A: 1

- How many refueling did you do during the mission, how much and where?

A: None

- Did you bring a Living Quarter (Hitch-hiker's Storage) for the guys during the long journey?

A: No

- Did you bring additional stuff like satellites, rovers, etc?

A: No

Some other statistics:

The mass of the vessel once in LKO was less than 100 tons. (At launch, it was over 900 tons. I never said I was good at building launch vehicles)

42981 science points were gathered during the mission.

5 Kerbals were launched aboard the vessel, and all returned home safely.

All science was stored in a mobile processing lab which was returned to Kerbin.

I didn't receive any science for recovering a vessel from the surface or orbit of any of the planets even though I returned my main lander (the GPL) to Kerbin. For some reason, I got points for recovering a vessel from the surface of Eeloo, but none of the other planets. (Maybe Eeloo landing just overrode all the other landings... I don't know if this is a bug or not)

Here is the final segment of the mission for proof:

http://imgur.com/a/eTccE

Mission Log HERE

Very nicely done, I didn't think I'd see my mission beat so soon and so conclusively! Definitely going to have to try and one up ya after I complete my current mission. ha!

[Fendleton]

Huh. I'm going to need a lot of optimising, it seems. Or jets.

I just docked my new science packages to the Yet To Be Named Mothership. Total mass is now 499.11 tons

....on 6 nuclear engines, this is going to take a while to move around, I think.

[Stratzenblitz75]

Stratzenblitz75: Congratulations, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge on the JEBEDIAH'S LEVEL WITH A GRAND TOUR!!!

I really enjoyed your Laythe pictures and all the others were fun too. The vehicles are very well planned minimalistic ones. I'm still studying your mission log, there's a lot of information and fun out there. And maybe the first Grand Tour with one launch only? And it may be a new record for science points too!

btw I was planning a lvl1 low-mass mission since march but didn't have much time to make it happen, but fortunately it's on the way some days ago and I will finish it soon and will post it too. There will be some additional surprise and I guess a new minimalistic low-mass record too! (I usually don't have too much time to scan much of the other forum topics so maybe not, I will see)

thank you for your participating, I've never thought there will be an other contender for the JEBEDIAH'S LEVEL + GRAND TOUR too soon! Well done!

Thank you for recognizing my mission for your Jool-5 challenge! This mission is the pinnacle of my KSP career and I had a lot of fun (and frustration) planning and executing it and therefore, I am honored to be the second entry in the JEBEDIAH'S LEVEL + GRAND TOUR category . Ziv, your challenge, and all the amazing entries that have been submitted, have been an incredible source of inspiration for me, and I'm sure for a lot of other people as well. I know I've said it before, but I would have never embarked on this mission, or my previous grand tour if it weren't for your challenge.

That being said, I'm looking forward to your low-mass mission! I love to see all the creative ways people can hyper-optimize their vessels and flight plans to create ridiculously efficient and compact missions.

One last thing, in the OP, you stated that I gathered "49,981" science points when in reality I only gathered 42,981 science points. In addition, in the mods listed, you said I used Mechjeb where I actually used KER. I'm sure this just a simple mistake, but I'm just pointing it out.

[kookoo_gr]

Hmm. What kind of power is needed to get into orbit from Laythe? The lander for that mission is the only thing I haven't built yet.

You'll need 3200m/s of ÃŽâ€V. Also note that the thickest part of the atmosphere is up until 10k after that the atmosphere gets really thin really fast.

Edited July 1, 2014 by kookoo_gr

[bobcook]

Total mass is now 499.11 tons ....on 6 nuclear engines, this is going to take a while to move around, I think.

I know exactly what you mean. My ship's departure clocked in at more than 2,200 tons. It took a good long time to escape Kerbin's orbit and head out to Jool.

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

Kouston, we have a problem...

turns out that I have designed my Tylo lander to have plenty of fuel to get off Tylo, but not enough fuel and TWR to land with any hope of Bill surviving... so have had to go back to the drawing board on that one too, considering Fendleton's suggestion of using SRB's...

[kookoo_gr]

Kouston, we have a problem...

turns out that I have designed my Tylo lander to have plenty of fuel to get off Tylo, but not enough fuel and TWR to land with any hope of Bill surviving... so have had to go back to the drawing board on that one too, considering Fendleton's suggestion of using SRB's...

Just a tip, sometimes less is more. I redesigned my Tylo lander and it is 3 times lighter than before. Explore various combinations of engines and tanks. KER is very helpful in those situations.

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

Just a tip, sometimes less is more. I redesigned my Tylo lander and it is 3 times lighter than before. Explore various combinations of engines and tanks. KER is very helpful in those situations.

Thanks, will keep that in mind... got something already on its way to jool for testing, if the test goes well in 'simulation' then Bill and the science package will get transferred over and the old lander destructively disposed of

[kookoo_gr]

Thanks, will keep that in mind... got something already on its way to jool for testing, if the test goes well in 'simulation' then Bill and the science package will get transferred over and the old lander destructively disposed of

May i also suggest the use of hyperedit for 'simulation'? that way you won't spend an eternity to send your landers for testing, just warp them into orbit and perform your tests