Do you think rocket construction will ever "take time"?

[Kinglet]

Right now time pauses while in the VAB. You can spend all the time you like designing a rocket and then launch it immediately. I think that works great for now. But do you think, with Career mode anyway, assembly might actually take time in the future? Like as you're building, in addition to the eventual cost in Kerbal dollars, there will also be a "cost" in time. I think it could add an interesting and challenging aspect to planning for launch windows.

Yeah, and add hard to get premium currency and refuel-anywhere DLC.

[jfjohnny5]

Judging by the comments I dont think most people who disagree even realize that this is about in game time. They seem to think that this feature will stop them from launching when they want when in fact it is just time inside game which passes, which is something that to me would instead make the game more immersive since that is how it works in real life.

It is much more weird and unrealistic how it is always the same day/time of day after spending a long time working on your ship.

Yeah, I think they're going to address the time passage issue eventually. It certainly sounds like they're trying to make Career mode a different experience from Sandbox; which is good.

People will complain at first, then they'll grow to appreciate the challenge.

[Kinglet]

Yeah, I think they're going to address the time passage issue eventually. It certainly sounds like they're trying to make Career mode a different experience from Sandbox; which is good.

People will complain at first, then they'll grow to appreciate the challenge.

Because waiting is definitely fun.

[jfjohnny5]

Yeah, and add hard to get premium currency and refuel-anywhere DLC.

Because waiting is definitely fun.

Either you truly don't understand what is actually being discussed, or you're just trolling.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. It's not about "waiting." It's about adding to the strategy of planning launches. Timing is very important to Kerbal. We're suggesting expanding on that by enhancing the current construction mechanic. It's not about forcing you to sit there and watch stuff being built. It's about advancing the game clock so that you have to think a bit before designing and launching in Career mode.

Edited November 10, 2013 by jfjohnny5

[KSK]

I'm doing this in my current career mode game. Two self imposed rules - 1) you can only use 5 science points per game day (so a 90 point tech takes 18 days to research) and 2) shipbuilding takes time. I'm running with 1 day for a sub-orbital craft, 2 for orbital, 4 for cis-Munar and 6 for interplanetary. Add 50% extra for prototypes and deduct 50% if its a probe (both rounded up if need be.)

Main gameplay effects:

1. It slows down the tech tree quite a bit, so I'm making much more use of the early parts, for example, ladder free Mun landings (relying on EVA packs to get back up to the capsule hatch.)

2. Planning becomes more of an issue - can I unlock that next tech tree node and still get that Eve probe built on time?!

3. Gives you stuff to do during interplanetary missions and makes your whole space program feel much more integrated.

Examples - I just about had the tech to launch a probe to Duna when the first transfer window opened. Whilst the probe was in transit, I was researching more tech and building ships for my Mun landing programme. My first window to Jool opens in a few days time. I'll be about done with the first round of Mun/Minmus landings by then but the long flight to Jool is going to fit in well with the longer time it's now taking to research tech upgrades. Later on, when I get space stations up and running, I'll be timewarping from one event to the next. Research a tech here, run a crew rotation flight there - oh look, that mission to Eeloo is only a couple of days out from a mid-course correction burn - better make sure I don't warp past that.

I'm enjoying it so far, although I can see why it wouldn't be for everyone. I should probably also install Kerbal Alarm Clock at some point, rather than keeping a paper logbook.

Edited November 10, 2013 by KSK

[jfjohnny5]

I hadn't even thought about research time. I like it. So far I've just been self-imposing some build requirements - very simply though; I just advance time a week on the launchpad before lifting off.

[KSK]

Not my idea I have to confess - I shamelessly borrowed it from Patupi! It does work well though.

[HeadHunter67]

What would be the point in making it take time? Any game designer will tell you that adding delays never increases a player's interest. I've seen many games that started out with some artificial-but-sensible delay in something, only to discover that making a player sit around and wait means they choose to play something else. Those delays were reduced and often eliminated entirely.

If you feel a need for rocket building to "take time", feel free to build it and then log off for a half-hour. When you come back, you can pretend your little green men built it while you had lunch.

[razark]

If you feel a need for rocket building to "take time", feel free to build it and then log off for a half-hour. When you come back, you can pretend your little green men built it while you had lunch.

No, you go into the VAB at Day 1, 05:30:00. You spend half an hour building a perfect rocket, and press the launch button. You immediately go to the launchpad and launch your rocket.

Except the clock is at Day 1, 06:00:00, instead of Day 1, 05:30:01.

[HeadHunter67]

If you mean time passing in the VAB as it does in the "outside" world of the game, I don't have a problem with that. I think it was actually the intent of the developers to do so, but hasn't been implemented within the KSC yet.

[Ekku Zakku]

EDIT: meh, felt like I was being too harsh, post deleted~

[jfjohnny5]

If you mean time passing in the VAB as it does in the "outside" world of the game, I don't have a problem with that. I think it was actually the intent of the developers to do so, but hasn't been implemented within the KSC yet.

Sort of... (following is copied from my edited first post)

The intent here is not to make you sit there and watch a progress bar. It's about having to plan ahead, to think carefully and develop a strategy. If the rocket is going to take 3 days to build then all you have to do is advance time past that and you're good to go. So to go along with this I guess you would also need to ability to speed up time on the "Space Center" screen, but that's a relatively minor change. So, it's not about forcing the player to sit there and wait for construction to finish "just because." It's about asking the player to make meaningful choices - I need to launch in 2 days... Adding those extra parachutes will take an extra day. Hmmm, I'm sure the Kerbals will be fine without them!

I love the depth and strategy I'm already seeing with the tech tree. We already know Squad is going to add a monetary cost to research and building. I think adding the need to plan your time carefully can add a lot to the strategy layer. Two of the big keys to any successful project are, after all, time and money.

[Holo]

There are too many people here who just read the title and made the totally original remark that they don't want to stare at an unmoving screen for [time], without reading the suggestion.

I find this excellent, it would make the game feel much more like a real space program.

[SRV Ron]

I could see the construction of new and duplicate rockets taking place on a cost, time basis. You would still be able to design and build as you do at present. However, that rocket wouldn't be available for a mission until a set period of Kerbal time has taken place. That would place the added challenge of launch windows and rescue attempts, but not hamper actual time play as you can always do other research, fly existing missions, or just time warp to the time period the craft would be ready for launch. In reality, you would be managing a space program where several projects are in their planning and construction stage at once if you want to get their program advancing as quickly as possible.

[HeadHunter67]

If the rocket is going to take 3 days to build then all you have to do is advance time past that and you're good to go.

If the answer is "then just time warp", it makes little sense to add such a feature. The only people that would care are those for whom launch windows are a real issue (then again, if you miss a window, you could as eaily time warp to the next, as well).

It's about asking the player to make meaningful choices - I need to launch in 2 days... Adding those extra arachutes will take an extra day. Hmmm, I'm sure the Kerbals will be fine without them!

Sounds fine on paper... but since we can time warp, and there's no consequence to zipping through weeks, months or years, it's not really a "meaningful" choice.

Two of the big keys to any successful project are, after all, time and money.

Neither one is currently a factor in this game. Time can be advanced to whenever your next window needs to be, and money does not yet exist. Perhaps at a later stage of the game's development, this might turn out to be a useful idea.

[M5000]

I don't think I'd enjoy this option, I spend a lot of time in the VAB as it is, my rockets already take time to build D:

[rotorwashed]

feel free to build it and then log off for a half-hour. When you come back, you can pretend your little green men built it while you had lunch.

/facepalm, how are people still posting that they dont wont to have to wait in real time. There would be no real time waiting! The idea is just having digits advance for realism, forcing you to plan you interplanetary Launch windows slightly better.

This is how I picture it happening...

you design a rocket in the VAB, a simple orbiter. Based on the parts selected it estimates a 2 month build time. So you click build+launch and then there you are on the launchpad, the game timer has advanced by two months, and kerbin (and every other object) has advanced in its orbit around the sun by two months. You launch your rocket onto orbit.

Heres another scenario that could happen. you build an Inter-planetery craft and launch it. You complete a burn that takes you out of Kerbins SOI. Now you have 65 days until your descending node, So you decide to take advantage of this time by going back to the VAB. You know that you have to launch a docking tug to your space station soon, in fact you already have the design ready. But you dont want to launch it now, you just click build and switch back to your interplanetery vessel and continue on your way to jool. Once your done, your station tug is built and ready to be launched.

The point is that it adds a new aspect to the game. you do not have to actually wait for your rockets to be built in game In fact you would hardly even notice it if you didnt want to.

[FITorion]

No.

The feature of being able to spend "all the time in the world" to design what ever the heck I want is wonderful. It's one of the pillars of game play for KSP I'd say.

This is not the real world. This is a game. This is not a full on simulation. Heck you can even reverse time in this game. This also isn't a real time strategy with build times to manage... There is no game play balance reason to include time in the VAB. There isn't anything time sensitive that the game is going to throw at you. Adding time thus won't increase the challenge or prevent you from doing anything in particular... You can always just time warp until the next opportunity. All it would be is an annoyance. Annoyance is not good game play.

[Killerdude8]

For the sake of Gameplay, I honestly hope not, Cause if you're anything like me, You'll be spending a few real time hours at any given moment building and perfecting the latest and greatest to soar towards the stars.

[razark]

It really makes sense to me that building a rocket should take time, especially in career mode.

It's kind of off-putting to notice that on Day 1, 00:00:00, Kerbkind discovered rocketry, and by Day 3, they're landing on the Mun and Minmus, have a space station built up from 10 separately launched modules, and are starting to construct their first Duna craft.

[rotorwashed]

It really makes sense to me that building a rocket should take time, especially in career mode.

It's kind of off-putting to notice that on Day 1, 00:00:00, Kerbkind discovered rocketry, and by Day 3, they're landing on the Mun and Minmus, have a space station built up from 10 separately launched modules, and are starting to construct their first Duna craft.

Exactly. The reality is that most people wouldnt even notice the change, or have to change their gameplay in any way at all. It would however add a much more realistic progression of time into the career mode. This would be especially great if there was ever a "Museum" feature implemented that displayed some miniature renderings of your early spacecraft in chronological order.

[Holo]

I don't think I'd enjoy this option, I spend a lot of time in the VAB as it is, my rockets already take time to build D:

Now even the mods aren't reading the thread properly

OP, you should put a big warning in the title saying !!Read Post Before Replying!! .

This will become especially good once career mode is more developed and time-warping without doing anything for a year waiting for your launch window to Eeloo had a negative effect on your budget.

[jfjohnny5]

It's kind of off-putting to notice that on Day 1, 00:00:00, Kerbkind discovered rocketry, and by Day 3, they're landing on the Mun and Minmus, have a space station built up from 10 separately launched modules, and are starting to construct their first Duna craft.

THIS. 10,000 times, this. You get it!

[OrtwinS]

I fully support this idea.

Game-time requiremens to build craft, and to complete research on a node (after 'purchasing' it).

Build time dependent on:

• number of parts
  
• number of times you already have built this design (new stuff is more tricky, after X launches the build-time settles at Y% of the original time cost)
  
• Vessel 'storage' So that the good planner can still prepare his 5 launches for this one window. Just make sure you built them in time (X hour game time penalty to move vessel from storage to launchpad & fill it up? Adds realism, and wouldn't conflict with planetary transfer windows)
  
• Should be part of difficulty level. Planning complicates stuff, easy-carreer and sandbox don't need this.

It's kind of off-putting to notice that on Day 1, 00:00:00, Kerbkind discovered rocketry, and by Day 3, they're landing on the Mun and Minmus, have a space station built up from 10 separately launched modules, and are starting to construct their first Duna craft.

^^This should be quoted in the first post (plus some additional explanation in readable formatting to inform new thread-visitors we don't want them to stare at the screen for X minutes)

Edited November 11, 2013 by OrtwinS
formatting & additions

[Ekku Zakku]

I'm now starting work on a mod for this, you guys just had to go and get me so excited about it XD I might get a basic plugin that gets info from the craft done tonight, and maybe something workable done by the end of the week. This will be my second plugin, but I'm still so far from familiar with the API that it's going to take me a good while I bet... Wish me luck!

Game-time requirements to build craft, and to complete research on a node (after 'purchasing' it).

Build time dependent on:

• number of parts
  
• number of times you already have built this design (new stuff is more tricky, after X launches the build-time settles at Y% of the original time cost)
  
• Vessel 'storage' So that the good planner can still prepare his 5 launches for this one window. Just make sure you built them in time (X hour game time penalty to move vessel from storage to launchpad & fill it up? Adds realism, and wouldn't conflict with planetary transfer windows)
  
• Should be part of difficulty level. Planning complicates stuff, easy-career and sandbox don't need this.

Gonna make this my planned feature list! Great ideas OrtwinS, pretty much the ideas I had but much more concise, and definitely the best way to do it imo. You get +1 rep =3