[1.12.X] RealChute Parachute Systems v1.4.8.3 | 24/01/21

Gfurst · May 2, 2015

Then you can't just copy the config of another part. First, remove all lines from the ProceduralChute module except for the name. SEcond, put the *right* names for this part in capName, parachuteName, deploymentAnimation, and preDeploymentAnimation. It won't work without the right names.

Thanks, I was thinking the part just used regular stock, and replacing just as regular stock would work too. Help me out here:

PART
{
// --- general parameters ---
name = SR_Nosecone_35
module = Part
author = RoverDude

// --- asset parameters ---
MODEL
{
	model = UmbraSpaceIndustries/SoundingRockets/Assets/SR_NoseCone_35
}
MODEL
{
	model = UmbraSpaceIndustries/SoundingRockets/Assets/PackChute
}
rescaleFactor = 1

node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.192, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 0

// --- FX definitions ---
sound_parachute_open = activate
sound_parachute_single = deploy



// --- editor parameters ---
TechRequired = start
entryCost = 0
cost = 250
category = Utility
subcategory = 0
title = Nosecone Parachute (0.35m)
manufacturer = Umbra Space Industries
description = A cardboard cone stuffed with a spare parachute.  A handy, aerodynamic topper for your sounding rocket. 

// attachment rules: stack, srfAttach, allowStack, allowSrfAttach, allowCollision
attachRules = 1,0,0,0,0

// --- standard part parameters ---

	mass = 0.05
	dragModelType = default
	angularDrag = 3
	crashTolerance = 12
	maxTemp = 2000
	//breakingForce = 100
	//breakingTorque = 50
	bodyLiftMultiplier = 0
	stageOffset = -1
	bulkheadProfiles = size1, srf


	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleParachute
		invertCanopy = true
		autoCutSpeed = 0.5
		capName = Cap
		canopyName = String
		semiDeployedAnimation = PreDeploy
		fullyDeployedAnimation = Deploy
		stowedDrag = 0.22
		semiDeployedDrag = 1
		fullyDeployedDrag = 500
		minAirPressureToOpen = 0.01
		deployAltitude = 500
		deploymentSpeed = 1
		semiDeploymentSpeed = 1
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleDragModifier
		dragCubeName = SEMIDEPLOYED
		dragModifier = 5
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleDragModifier
		dragCubeName = DEPLOYED
		dragModifier = 10
	}
}

This is the part's original cfg, It does mostly seems like stock. except the deploy animation.

Here is what I have with what you told me:

MODULE
	{
		name = RealChuteModule
		caseMass = 0.04
		timer = 0
		mustGoDown = false
		cutSpeed = 0.5
		spareChutes = 5

		PARACHUTE
		{
			material = Nylon
			preDeployedDiameter = 1
			deployedDiameter = 25
			minIsPressure = true
			minPressure = 0.01
			deploymentAlt = 700
			cutAlt = -1
			preDeploymentSpeed = 2
			deploymentSpeed = 6
			preDeploymentAnimation = preDeploy
			deploymentAnimation = Deploy
			parachuteName = String
			capName = cap
		}
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ProceduralChute
	}

Changed the animation names, parachuteName I figured its canopy name, capname the same. Procedural chute is empty. Testing it out.... and nooo it didn't work yet.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Gfurst

stupid_chris · May 2, 2015

Thanks, I was thinking the part just used regular stock, and replacing just as regular stock would work too. Help me out here:

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleParachute
		invertCanopy = true
		autoCutSpeed = 0.5
		capName = [COLOR="#FF0000"]C[/COLOR]ap
		canopyName = String
		semiDeployedAnimation = [COLOR="#FF0000"]P[/COLOR]reDeploy
		fullyDeployedAnimation = Deploy
		stowedDrag = 0.22
		semiDeployedDrag = 1
		fullyDeployedDrag = 500
		minAirPressureToOpen = 0.01
		deployAltitude = 500
		deploymentSpeed = 1
		semiDeploymentSpeed = 1
	}

This is the part's original cfg, It does mostly seems like stock. except the deploy animation.

Here is what I have with what you told me:

	MODULE
	{
		name = RealChuteModule
		caseMass = 0.04
		timer = 0
		mustGoDown = false
		cutSpeed = 0.5
		spareChutes = 5

		PARACHUTE
		{
			material = Nylon
			preDeployedDiameter = 1
			deployedDiameter = 25
			minIsPressure = true
			minPressure = 0.01
			deploymentAlt = 700
			cutAlt = -1
			preDeploymentSpeed = 2
			deploymentSpeed = 6
			preDeploymentAnimation = [COLOR="#FF0000"]p[/COLOR]reDeploy
			deploymentAnimation = Deploy
			parachuteName = String
			capName = [COLOR="#FF0000"]c[/COLOR]ap
		}
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ProceduralChute
	}

Changed the animation names, parachuteName I figured its canopy name, capname the same. Procedural chute is empty. Testing it out.... and nooo it didn't work yet.

That's why

Alright, now likely last update for a while.

Changelog:

May 2nd 2014
v1.3.2.3
-Updated flags to DDS files, thanks to sumghai again
-Slight bugfix to parachute heating, they now heat, much, much, MUCH faster, as they should.
-Fixed a bug with minimum deployment pressure being in kPa, allowing deployment way too early

Make sure you are on KSP 1.0.2 for this update. This was the cause of the high number of incomplete and false bug reports of the next update. Always make sure you are on the latest version of KSP.

That being said, enjoy folks!

Athlonic · May 2, 2015

... they now heat, much, much, MUCH faster, as they should.

I guess you will soon have to rename the mod as "Deadly RealChute" ^^

I put "as they should" in bold, before the storm coming in this thread.

Our poor Kerbals will suffer for sure, but it is for science ! Who would have imagined that Nylon burns up when heating otherwise ?

Thanks again a lot for your time put on this.

impyre · May 3, 2015

I deployed a kevlar drag chute at 69km. At 55km it vanishes and a message is displayed by realchute... something like ..."due to heat or aerodynamic forces". I was monitoring heat, aero, and g's at all times... there was nothing alarming about the situation that warrants ripping a kevlar chute (with a predeployed area of 3 square meters) off my craft. What gives? Drag forces should be much less and heating should be minimal at that altitude. Don't get me wrong, I'm no parachute expert... but why can't this be done? Is there an alternative besides heat shields?

stupid_chris · May 3, 2015

I deployed a kevlar drag chute at 69km. At 55km it vanishes and a message is displayed by realchute... something like ..."due to heat or aerodynamic forces". I was monitoring heat, aero, and g's at all times... there was nothing alarming about the situation that warrants ripping a kevlar chute (with a predeployed area of 3 square meters) off my craft. What gives? Drag forces should be much less and heating should be minimal at that altitude. Don't get me wrong, I'm no parachute expert... but why can't this be done? Is there an alternative besides heat shields?

While the cross sectional area is 3mÃ‚Â², you have to understand that the whole area of the parachute is exposed to air flow. Parachutes have an incredibely large area, are extremely thin, and extremely light. It takes very little thermal energy to heat them. Kevlar chutes break down when they hit 500Ã‚Â°C. You don't need to have shock heating to reach that temperature. The friction of air drag is already quite imposant. At this height, your reentry speed, is about 2.4km/s. I don't know if you understand how ludicruoudly fast that is, but it's really fast. There is no way any chute would survive at this speed and altitude. And if it was not for the heat, I can guarantee you that the aerodynamical forces would rip this chute apart.

So to answer your question, no the parachute should absolutely not survive this. Even a kevlar one. This can't be done because you're underestimating the heat and force involved. A heatshield will not save you either, they do not shield the canopy. If you want your chute to survive, it's actually really really simple. Don't deploy it at 69km. Deploy it after shock heating stopped. Even then, I would wait until the mach effects also stopped. You really don't need to deploy that high.

Starwaster · May 3, 2015

I deployed a kevlar drag chute at 69km. At 55km it vanishes and a message is displayed by realchute... something like ..."due to heat or aerodynamic forces". I was monitoring heat, aero, and g's at all times... there was nothing alarming about the situation that warrants ripping a kevlar chute (with a predeployed area of 3 square meters) off my craft. What gives? Drag forces should be much less and heating should be minimal at that altitude. Don't get me wrong, I'm no parachute expert... but why can't this be done? Is there an alternative besides heat shields?

I'm going to go one further and say you've been spoiled. You think you can do these things because KSP has let you get away with it until now.

The gravy train ends here and now you get to use chutes the way they get used in the real world. No more free lunches. Deploy chutes hypersonic and pay the consequences.

Look at the picture below. Do you see chutes deploying at 65 km? No. 24,000 ft = a little over 7km. Its velocity was no higher than Mach 1.5 (probably less). The highest rated and largest supersonic that I know of was Curiosity at Mach 2.2 (that was what it was rated for max because like everything they overengineered it to err on the side of caution. It deployed at Mach 2 and that was over Mars with low pressure and low density)

Edited May 3, 2015 by Starwaster

sumghai · May 3, 2015

I concur with stupid_chris and Starwaster's opinion on the matter.

Furthermore, I deliberately designed my SDHI parachutes to only deploy the initial drogues at a mere (but still generous) 12.5 km above sea level, where I'm reasonably sure most pods are no longer subject to shock heating and Mach effects. My mains are also subsequently restricted to a maximum predeployment altitude of ~2 km.

Starwaster · May 3, 2015

BTW, I don't mean for my reply to be mean. Think of it as tough love.

Love you guys!

(now stop misusing your chutes)

jonrd463 · May 3, 2015

I'm going to go one further and say you've been spoiled. You think you can do these things because KSP has let you get away with it until now.

I started KSP with .23. I noticed I could get away with a lot of stuff that didn't make much sense from an aerospace physics standpoint. It bothered me so much that I just roleplayed it out. I had certain rules, like do not deploy chutes at >10 KM and >250 m/s. This affected other aspects of my spaceflying, such as setting up more shallow re-entry trajectories. Once I got DRE, I was glad to see that my being OCD about this paid off. Same for the new aerodynamics/heating in 1.*.

Gotta admit, it is amusing sometimes to see how for some folks, these long term bad habits are coming home to roost. Kinda like "Hey, KSP! Y U NO LET ME BREAK LAWS OF PHYSICS?!?"

Edited May 3, 2015 by jonrd463
Derp removal

Friend Bear · May 3, 2015

Bug:

There is a Wenkel mission (this is my only Wenkel mod); it is to conduct an orbital survey of the mun...Enter orbit, magnometer, science bay, and a 3rd thing I can't remember. Low Mun orbit.

The parameters cannot be met, and any attemp does not qualify. I went ahead and gave myself the credit in debug but the mission won't go away.

Cannot delete it in debug, either by trying to "complete" or "cancel"

If you cancel it in the mission building, it comes back on reboot.

Suggestions?

If you need info, let me know.

----

Oh by the way. I don't remember what it did the first time I cancelled in the building, but when I cancel, it does not penalize me.

Additionally, it permanently takes a contract spot out of the allotment. I can only have 7 right now. When I click cancel, it goes away, but it still says I have 7 when there are visibly only 6 contracts.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Friend Bear

stupid_chris · May 4, 2015

Bug:
There is a Wenkel mission (this is my only Wenkel mod); it is to conduct an orbital survey of the mun...Enter orbit, magnometer, science bay, and a 3rd thing I can't remember. Low Mun orbit.
The parameters cannot be met, and any attemp does not qualify. I went ahead and gave myself the credit in debug but the mission won't go away.
Cannot delete it in debug, either by trying to "complete" or "cancel"
If you cancel it in the mission building, it comes back on reboot.
Suggestions?
If you need info, let me know.
----
Oh by the way. I don't remember what it did the first time I cancelled in the building, but when I cancel, it does not penalize me.
Additionally, it permanently takes a contract spot out of the allotment. I can only have 7 right now. When I click cancel, it goes away, but it still says I have 7 when there are visibly only 6 contracts.

You do realize that all contracts are handled by the stock game right? The company who gives contracts is just chosen randomly from all companies.

So yes thats a stock bug.

Gfurst · May 4, 2015

Stupid chris, thanks for the help setting up the realchutes patch.

It seems to be all working properly now, except with a visual bug for one of the models, the chute is visually duplicated.

Here is the patch if you to add to your compatibility list:

 
@PART[SR_Nosecone_35]:FOR[RealChute]
{

	@category = none
	@mass = 0.02
	!sound_parachute_open
	!sound_parachute_single

	!MODULE[ModuleParachute]{}

	MODULE
	{
		name = RealChuteModule
		caseMass = 0.02
		timer = 0
		mustGoDown = true
		cutSpeed = 0.5
		spareChutes = 1

		PARACHUTE
		{
			material = Nylon
			preDeployedDiameter = 0.8
			deployedDiameter = 12
			minIsPressure = false
			minPressure = 0.1
			minDeployment = 6000
			deploymentAlt = 600
			cutAlt = -1
			preDeploymentSpeed = 1
			deploymentSpeed = 4
			preDeploymentAnimation = PreDeploy
			deploymentAnimation = Deploy
			parachuteName = String
			capName = Cap
		}
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ProceduralChute
	}

	EFFECTS
	{
		rcpredeploy
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = sound_parachute_open
				volume = 1
			}
		}

		rcdeploy
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = sound_parachute_single
				volume = 1
			}
		}

		rccut
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = RealChute/Sounds/sound_parachute_cut
				volume = 1
			}
		}

		rcrepack
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = RealChute/Sounds/sound_parachute_repack
				volume = 1
			}
		}
	}
}

@PART[SR_Nosecone_625]:FOR[RealChute]
{

	@category = none
	@mass = 0.04
	!sound_parachute_open
	!sound_parachute_single

	!MODULE[ModuleParachute]{}

	MODULE
	{
		name = RealChuteModule
		caseMass = 0.04
		timer = 0
		mustGoDown = true
		cutSpeed = 0.5
		spareChutes = 1

		PARACHUTE
		{
			material = Nylon
			preDeployedDiameter = 1
			deployedDiameter = 16
			minIsPressure = false
			minPressure = 0.1
			minDeployment = 8000
			deploymentAlt = 800
			cutAlt = -1
			preDeploymentSpeed = 1
			deploymentSpeed = 6
			preDeploymentAnimation = PreDeploy
			deploymentAnimation = Deploy
			parachuteName = String
			capName = Cap
		}
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ProceduralChute
	}

	EFFECTS
	{
		rcpredeploy
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = sound_parachute_open
				volume = 1
			}
		}

		rcdeploy
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = sound_parachute_single
				volume = 1
			}
		}

		rccut
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = RealChute/Sounds/sound_parachute_cut
				volume = 1
			}
		}

		rcrepack
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = RealChute/Sounds/sound_parachute_repack
				volume = 1
			}
		}
	}
}

@PART[SR_PackChute_35]:FOR[RealChute]
{

	@category = none
	@mass = 0.02
	!sound_parachute_open
	!sound_parachute_single

	!MODULE[ModuleParachute]{}

	MODULE
	{
		name = RealChuteModule
		caseMass = 0.02
		timer = 0
		mustGoDown = true
		cutSpeed = 0.5
		spareChutes = 1

		PARACHUTE
		{
			material = Nylon
			preDeployedDiameter = 0.8
			deployedDiameter = 12
			minIsPressure = false
			minPressure = 0.1
			minDeployment = 6000
			deploymentAlt = 600
			cutAlt = -1
			preDeploymentSpeed = 1
			deploymentSpeed = 4
			preDeploymentAnimation = PreDeploy
			deploymentAnimation = Deploy
			parachuteName = String
			capName = Pack
		}
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ProceduralChute
	}

	EFFECTS
	{
		rcpredeploy
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = sound_parachute_open
				volume = 1
			}
		}

		rcdeploy
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = sound_parachute_single
				volume = 1
			}
		}

		rccut
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = RealChute/Sounds/sound_parachute_cut
				volume = 1
			}
		}

		rcrepack
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = RealChute/Sounds/sound_parachute_repack
				volume = 1
			}
		}
	}
}

impyre · May 4, 2015

While the cross sectional area is 3mÃ‚Â², you have to understand that the whole area of the parachute is exposed to air flow. Parachutes have an incredibely large area, are extremely thin, and extremely light. It takes very little thermal energy to heat them. Kevlar chutes break down when they hit 500Ã‚Â°C. You don't need to have shock heating to reach that temperature. The friction of air drag is already quite imposant. At this height, your reentry speed, is about 2.4km/s. I don't know if you understand how ludicruoudly fast that is, but it's really fast. There is no way any chute would survive at this speed and altitude. And if it was not for the heat, I can guarantee you that the aerodynamical forces would rip this chute apart.
So to answer your question, no the parachute should absolutely not survive this. Even a kevlar one. This can't be done because you're underestimating the heat and force involved. A heatshield will not save you either, they do not shield the canopy. If you want your chute to survive, it's actually really really simple. Don't deploy it at 69km. Deploy it after shock heating stopped. Even then, I would wait until the mach effects also stopped. You really don't need to deploy that high.

Well... the reason I was deploying that high was to avoid heating altogether. I want to try to build ungainly contraptions and bring them down in one piece without burning them up. But I appreciate your answer. I did more research into real-life reentry deceleration recently, and I got the feeling that my problem was exactly what you suggest... I was underestimating the effect of aero-kinetic heating. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't this where air molecules striking surfaces directly creates heat due to speed, even though the air is really thin? So this isn't the same as shock-heating... which you begin to get when the air gets thick enough to create shock cones?

Friend Bear · May 4, 2015

Wow that makes sense. I had no idea, but now I realize.

Thank you.

Starwaster · May 4, 2015

Well... the reason I was deploying that high was to avoid heating altogether. I want to try to build ungainly contraptions and bring them down in one piece without burning them up. But I appreciate your answer. I did more research into real-life reentry deceleration recently, and I got the feeling that my problem was exactly what you suggest... I was underestimating the effect of aero-kinetic heating. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't this where air molecules striking surfaces directly creates heat due to speed, even though the air is really thin? So this isn't the same as shock-heating... which you begin to get when the air gets thick enough to create shock cones?

Shock heating is the shockwave you get on reentry. The air is compressed along the vessel's flight path and compression heats the air. The approximate temperature (in Kelvins) of the shockwave is equal to its velocity in meters per second.

So if you're coming in at 2.5 km/s then your shockwave temperature is ~2500 K. The amount of heat energy that will be transferred depends on the density of the atmosphere and the density of whatever it is that's being heated.

The hottest part is the bow shock in front (that's being compressed) but you still get a plasma streamer behind that's almost as hot.

(though as SC says, you don't even need THAT to destroy the chute)

AnodeCathode · May 4, 2015

I'm running KSP 1.0.2 and RealChutes 1.3.2.3. When I first setup KSP 1.0 and RealChutes I was able to change the size of the chute by right clicking in the VAB and selecting the next/previous size option. That's now disappeared. Am I missing something? It's really awkward to have a giant dome on top of my bitty little capsule.

Disregard. After reading through all the thread posts I learned that the resizing moves into the action group section along with all sorts of other options. All good. Thanks for the amazing mod.

Edited May 4, 2015 by AnodeCathode
Found my answer.

impyre · May 4, 2015

@Starwaster: I'm familiar with shock heating. That wasn't what the confusion was about, my confusion stemmed from underestimating heating that occurs much higher up which is due primarily to causes other than shock heating.

Sirrobert · May 5, 2015

I am running Realchute, and noticed that the game's engineer report (that warns you if you forgot something when building) can't register parachutes anymore (example).

Is it possible that this mod does that? It's not to big a deal but it is a little annoying

stupid_chris · May 5, 2015

I am running Realchute, and noticed that the game's engineer report (that warns you if you forgot something when building) can't register parachutes anymore (example).
Is it possible that this mod does that? It's not to big a deal but it is a little annoying

Read. I've said this way more than enough.

lincourtl · May 5, 2015

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't this where air molecules striking surfaces directly creates heat due to speed, even though the air is really thin? So this isn't the same as shock-heating... which you begin to get when the air gets thick enough to create shock cones?

No, it's the same thing, just a different intensity. The heat gets transferred because the air can not get out of the way of your vehicle fast enough, so some of it is at an effective standstill (zero flow). This gives it time to convect the heat to your vehicle. This happens to anything traveling through a fluid whether it happens to be a swimmer, a submarine, a bicyclist, a car, a train, a jumbo jet, or a reentering spacecraft. It's just that for ordinary applications the heating is negligible. But once you're moving at Mach 20 or so, even at 100km the atmosphere is going to be thick enough where it just can't get out of your way fast enough. Also, space capsules are designed to create a detached bow shock so most of the heat is dissipated to the surrounding air rather than the capsule. I'm sure NathanKell can explain it much better than me.

JeeF · May 6, 2015

Installed your mod and I cannot find parachutes under "Utility" or any other category. Only way to find the chutes is to go into advanced tab and look under "tier" items.

Read a bunch of pages on this thread and used google to see if I could find an answer, but found nothing. Sorry if this was answered before, but could you give me a hand please?

stupid_chris · May 6, 2015

Installed your mod and I cannot find parachutes under "Utility" or any other category. Only way to find the chutes is to go into advanced tab and look under "tier" items.
Read a bunch of pages on this thread and used google to see if I could find an answer, but found nothing. Sorry if this was answered before, but could you give me a hand please?

They are not under Utility. They are under the category RealChute creates, the "Parachutes" tab. If you don't see that, then you definitely installed RealChute incorrectly.

JeeF · May 6, 2015

They are not under Utility. They are under the category RealChute creates, the "Parachutes" tab. If you don't see that, then you definitely installed RealChute incorrectly.

I've installed it using CKAN, didn't mess around with is, just selected and installed.

Also noticed that even manually putting the parachute on my rocket, it's inert. Right-clicking on it, I cannot deploy or change settings, in the hangar it doesn't even recognize the chute in the staging.

Disabling your mod via CKAN, chutes now work. Very strange.

futrtrubl · May 6, 2015

I've installed it using CKAN, didn't mess around with is, just selected and installed.
Also noticed that even manually putting the parachute on my rocket, it's inert. Right-clicking on it, I cannot deploy or change settings, in the hangar it doesn't even recognize the chute in the staging.
Disabling your mod via CKAN, chutes now work. Very strange.

Don't trust CKAN to do what it says. Try a manual install.

Gfurst · May 6, 2015

I've installed it using CKAN, didn't mess around with is, just selected and installed.
Also noticed that even manually putting the parachute on my rocket, it's inert. Right-clicking on it, I cannot deploy or change settings, in the hangar it doesn't even recognize the chute in the staging.
Disabling your mod via CKAN, chutes now work. Very strange.

Ok... so maybe you didn't install the requirements.... Check Module Manager.... In CKAN it doesn't show as dependency but its required.

[1.12.X] RealChute Parachute Systems v1.4.8.3 | 24/01/21

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